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Re:Has Uber killed off its self-driving trucks? by ghaff on Monday May 08, 2017 @03:41PM (#14294884)
I've said this before, but this just seems crazy to me. Nothing I see suggests that 100% autonomous door-to-door driving as a commercially offered service is just around the corner. Even if it reliably worked technically you're still years away from being able to offer it to the public. Not even Uber could flaunt the law that flagrantly.

And the thing is that we're not there. Even if you say it's a decade out (which seems pie in the sky optimistic to me), can Uber really afford to burn through cash for another 10 years?

[ADDED: I didn't make my point well. I do think legal/regulatory will take some time independent of technical readiness, but IMO it's technical readiness especially in all the corner cases that's the long pole.]

Re:Has Uber killed off its self-driving trucks? by kjksf on Monday May 08, 2017 @04:21PM (#14295245)
Elon Musk stated that their technology is 2 years away from full autonomous driving. Tesla is planning LA -> NY fully autonomic drive by end of this year.

Waymo has already started a real pilot of fully autonomic driving for regular people in Phoenix area. I predict that means they are less than 1 year away from ditching training wheels and launching it fully.

Some think that changing laws to make legal will be the hard part but I see the opposite: states will be competing for who's first to make it possible.

Many states, including CA, already made testing possible. You just sign up and ask "can I test my self-driving cars, on real roads, possibly destroying other cars on those roads and killing people. Pretty please?".

Laws are hard when they're controversial and self-driving cars are political goldmine:

* dramatically less deaths and other kinds of destruction due to less accidents

* cheaper transportation

* the sheer coolness of self-driving

It'll take only few states in US to allow it and other states will have to follow or the politicians will look very stupid if a taxi drive in SF costs $1 and the same is $10 in Chicago.

No-one will have to flaunt the law, it'll get changed very quickly.

Re:Has Uber killed off its self-driving trucks? by aetherson on Monday May 08, 2017 @04:32PM (#14295330)
Waymo's Phoenix test will include an employee in the driver's seat ready to take over. (See: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/25/technology/waymo-to-offer..., and note the sentence "All the Waymo cars will have a technician who can take control in an emergency.")

Elon Musk said that Tesla's driverless technology was "probably better than a person" more than a year ago. (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2016/01/11...). What I'm saying is, Musk is a big promoter of Tesla and taking his ideas of when the technology will be ready at 100% face value is foolish.

Re:Has Uber killed off its self-driving trucks? by joshuamorton on Monday May 08, 2017 @07:22PM (#14296502)
>All the Waymo cars will have a technician who can take control in an emergency.

This is likely more due to regulatory reasons than anything else. Waymo's cars have an exceedingly low rate of required intervention.

Re:Has Uber killed off its self-driving trucks? by keeptrying on Monday May 08, 2017 @09:34PM (#14297084)
In Palo Alto.
Re:Has Uber killed off its self-driving trucks? by joshuamorton on Tuesday May 09, 2017 @04:13PM (#14303435)
And Tahoe (light snow) and Seattle (rain/fog) and a couple of other places. Sure, most testing has been in the Bay Area (although at this point I'm not actually sure if that's the case anymore).
Re:Has Uber killed off its self-driving trucks? by paulcole on Monday May 08, 2017 @04:51PM (#14295485)
>Tesla is planning LA -> NY fully autonomic drive by end of this year.

But that's not really a very impressive feat compared to 3-5 days of non-stop driving in NYC. I mean who cares if it can go cross-country? I want it to take me from my apartment to the office to the grocery store to Target out to dinner and then back home again.

Hundreds and hundreds (probably >1,000 even) of those cross-country miles are going to be desolate and essentially carless.

Re:Has Uber killed off its self-driving trucks? by placeybordeaux on Monday May 08, 2017 @05:34PM (#14295826)
If I could get something close to an RV that could do the highway section to a national park or another major US city while letting 2+ people sleep in the back I'd be very interested in getting that and doing a very cheap vacation across the country.

As it is driving on a boring highway all day and finding a hotel at night sucks. I'd much rather leave the driving to the night while we sleep.

Re:Has Uber killed off its self-driving trucks? by ericleung on Monday May 08, 2017 @05:25PM (#14295757)
I think that's completely the right idea, but I don't think the difficulty in "self-driving" is the carless-ness of those highway roads. Highway roads tend to be easy because you don't have a lot of edge cases. Cars are always driving at roughy the same speed, and there aren't very many lights or intersections or bicyclists or pedestrians, etc.
Re:Has Uber killed off its self-driving trucks? by luca_ing on Tuesday May 09, 2017 @08:03AM (#14299265)
> Elon Musk stated that their technology is 2 years away from full autonomous driving. Tesla is planning LA -> NY fully autonomic drive by end of this year.

While that's nice, it's kinda the low-hanging fruit.

I'll be impressed if somebody manages autonomous driving in, say, New York (or Kolkata if you're feeling ambitious), at night, during snowfall, navigating a construction site and/or traffic regulated by policemen.

This is taxing but completely possible (and entirely expected) for a human driver. Whereas the lane-following autopilot in my car is routinely confused by shadows on a pleasant day.

Re:Has Uber killed off its self-driving trucks? by ghaff on Monday May 08, 2017 @04:25PM (#14295269)
I actually agree that if the tech works extremely reliably, the legal/regulatory hurdles may take some time but aren't going to be a major roadblock.

We are quite far apart however on how close we are to "just works."

Re:Has Uber killed off its self-driving trucks? by rtkwe on Monday May 08, 2017 @04:07PM (#14295104)
There's a few easier steps they could take first. Long haul point to point from a few major distribution points to others is probably doable soon especially if they're designed to accommodate the autonomous trucks. Local drivers who are paid less drop off a trailer at a UberFreight depot in Southern California, an automated truck picks it up and drives freeways over to the UberFreight depot for Eastern North Carolina, there another local short haul driver gets booked to take it to it's final destination. Uber might be burning too much money to make it to this but the technology for long haul freeway driving is largely here already it avoids a lot of the difficulties of small roads.
Re:Has Uber killed off its self-driving trucks? by ghaff on Monday May 08, 2017 @04:36PM (#14295365)
While true, a lot of truly "long haul" trucking has switched to freight railroads anyway with inter-modal shipping. There may be some savings associated with effectively adding another mode (autonomous medium-haul) but there's at least some cost to adding the additional level of depots associated with that. I can believe it would work but I've never seen a real analysis.
Re:Has Uber killed off its self-driving trucks? by placeybordeaux on Monday May 08, 2017 @03:58PM (#14295021)
I'd short Uber if it was publicly traded.

I'm not sure how far away door to door taxis are, but I also would bet against Uber having a long enough market lock in to recoup losses.

Re:Has Uber killed off its self-driving trucks? by aetherson on Monday May 08, 2017 @05:49PM (#14295936)
Uber's driverless car strategy is incredibly implausible. You have to believe all of the following:

1. Uber will be first to market with driverless car technology. That is, it will beat Waymo, all the actual car companies, Apple, Tesla, and 100 other startups.

2. Given 1, Uber's driverless car technology is a durable technological advantage (ie, even if it's first to market, that doesn't matter much if Waymo follows it to market 3 months later). Note that we are at this point stipulating that this technological challenge is doable with a team that you spun up out of nothing a couple of years ago, as not-the-best-resourced team on the block.

3. Given 2, the legal issues with driverless cars are resolved well enough that Uber has a viable business.

4. Given 3, Uber can successfully raise money for an incredible capital expenditure (how many cars are we talking here? 1,000,000, very conservatively? At $20,000 ea, very conservatively? So $20B investment), and then handle that kind of capital investment.

5. Given 4, build up all the supporting infrastructure for this business (parking, local cleaning, etc.)

6. Given 5, this all happens within Uber's operational runway (like, starts within 3-5 years, finishes within 10 or so)?

Personally, I'd put the odds of this at: 10% for 1 * 10% for 2 * 90% for 3 * 80% for 4 * 70% for 5 * 20% for 6 = roughly 0.1%.

But even if you're way more bullish on Uber than I am, can anyone really argue for more than 50% for 1 * 50% for 2 * 90% for 3 * 95% for 4 * 95% for 5 * 80% for 6? That's still only 16%.

Re:Has Uber killed off its self-driving trucks? by ghaff on Monday May 08, 2017 @06:50PM (#14296352)
So Uber just needs to win, in a sustainable differentiated way, self-driving technology, get it incorporated into actual cars in production volumes, and roll it out as a new major national car rental company based mostly on very short-term rentals. Within, as you say, their operational runway.
Re:Has Uber killed off its self-driving trucks? by placeybordeaux on Monday May 08, 2017 @06:00PM (#14296024)
I think that steps 2 and 4 are the biggest questions for me, but the details about keeping the cars running & clean are also good ones. Right now Uber can externalize the costs of a running clean car. Running their own fleet will mean that stuff like gas, maintenance, cleanliness, misc stuff that 5 star uber drivers do (free candy, water etc) will no longer be externalized and bore by their drivers.

P.S. did you mean bearish instead of bullish?

Re:Has Uber killed off its self-driving trucks? by aetherson on Monday May 08, 2017 @06:21PM (#14296178)
Nope. People who are more bullish about Uber than I rate their chance of being first-to-market with driverless car technology at higher than 10%, for example.
Re:Has Uber killed off its self-driving trucks? by wdb on Tuesday May 09, 2017 @06:41AM (#14298907)
And then you have the question, if people want to be in a taxi without a driver?
Re:Has Uber killed off its self-driving trucks? by TheCoelacanth on Monday May 08, 2017 @05:54PM (#14295981)
Easy, they just have to find an investor with 10 times as much money to irresponsibly blow through as the Saudi sovereign wealth fund. That exists, right?