I'd also tack on that the variety of transportation options are very low. Cycling and public transit infrastructure is very poor and far, far behind other first world countries. From my understanding traffic and commuting in Auckland is a complete nightmare due to the weak public transit system. It's a bit of a southern hemisphere LA. Auckland has finally recognized they have a problem and they're slowly fixing things, but they have a long way to go. They've just recently reorganized their bus system so that should help some.
The housing bubble is extremely bad in NZ so that spikes the cost of living. Another con is that it feels that NZ, like many countries, is having trouble transitioning from the mindset that everyone should have a single family home, to one where denser apartment living is going to be necessary. Auckland is very sprawling endlessly as there's a reluctance to densify and change established neighbourhoods.
Surprisingly, NZ is not a good place for cycling. A guy and his wife[0] did a world cycling tour a while back and Wellington is the only place where he had serious issues with the locals[1].
[0]: http://www.pathlesspedaled.com/
[1]: https://www.seattlebikeblog.com/2012/01/12/russ-from-path-le...
Same problem Canada has: interest rates below the rate of (real, unadjusted) inflation, and no limitations on foreign ownership of real estate (a major catalyst, at least, for a bubble).
I'm so sick of it. Houses should be for living in, goddamn it. Not for storing your cash out of reach of a corrupt government, as necessary a thing as that is.
http://www.rbnz.govt.nz/statistics/key-graphs/key-graph-infl...
http://www.rbnz.govt.nz/monetary-policy/official-cash-rate-d...
https://www.asb.co.nz/home-loans-mortgages/interest-rates-fe...
http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/311147/call-for-infla...
That's one way of looking at it. Another way is.....we can argue about what the specific numbers are, but leaving that aside, there is very obviously a major, major problem with housing costs in many countries in the world, Canada being one of the very worst affected. But in the realm of political discussion, it is almost never mentioned, and when it does come up, almost all politicians "poo poo" the idea as if it's some crackpot conspiracy theory, and if you won't shut up about it, they then resort to calling you a racist, which in Vancouver was almost a foolproof technique for suppressing discussion, until it finally got so bad that even that stopped working, but even then almost no politicians would acknowledge the elephant in the room.
It feels like a complete conspiracy. Could the explanation be as simple that all politicians own real estate, so it is in their best interests to blow the bubble as big as possible? As silly as that sounds, the numbers are literally so big that's is nearly the equivalent of winning a small lottery...and knowing human nature, how many people wouldn't compromise their principles just a little to guarantee win the lottery?
At best they might send their wife, kids, and elderly parents over to take advantage of our subsidized schools and hospitals (for hospitals you can just borrow a fake ID from someone with PR status, Canadian culture is extremely trusting so we don't have any safeguards in place for abuse of any of our social services).
In a couple of years NZ will have one of the highest (if not the highest) average internet speeds in the world.
This is going to be a huge hinderance for any tech enterprise.
I'm glad to see @bspn (sibling comment here) say that the Internet quality is improving.
We used to be an internet backwater, lagging behind Australia and far behind Europe/USA, but in the last 10 years we've really leapt into the 21st century.
Case in point: http://www.speedtest.net/result/6217789165.png
The main issue was the monopoly on transit, but domestic competition has helped a bit.
NZ has a nationwide copper network owned by NZX listed company Chorus, and there is a gigabit fibre network nearing completion (Chorus and about 3 other companies). Network owners are prohibited from retailing and must provide retail ISPs access on fair terms (wholesale pricing is regulated).
There are a few Australian owned ISPs, but none that operate in both Australia and NZ.
What? Hell no. The only Australian ISP that tried to set-up here (Telstra) ended up selling out to Vodafone and exiting the market. Our internet is far better than Australia's.
Christchurch has a fair few also, and it's closer to the "LOTR scenery".
> but eating habits don't seem to follow. Obesity seems to be a huge problem there
Obesity directly correlates to low socio-economic status here.
I have a buddy who works in IT and lives in Dunedin. Don't really have any other details, but I'd suspect that there are opportunities outside of the two big cities, though they are probably in the few. He seems to enjoy it.
Health care was a mixed bag. If I remember correctly, it's pretty socialized. You can see a doctor right away with little or no charge, which is almost unheard of in metropolitan U.S. unless you want to pay through the nose. I also remember spending more time with the doctor per visit, in contrast to my experience in the states where it seems like you might get about 5 good minutes with a doctor. At this point, I've realized that I diagnose myself much better than most doctors, so I just skip the whole waiting process and just buy whatever prescription drugs I need online. I wouldn't even have to go through that hassle if I still lived in NZ. The disadvantage to NZ healthcare, and dental care, is that their practices are sometimes really backwards. Especially with the latter. Dentists are far more likely to just yank out a tooth than try to save one. As an example, they almost pulled out one of my younger sister's front teeth and give her a plate. Obviously, this sucks for a teenage girl(anyone really), and it was for an infection that could have been treated without uprooting the whole tooth. My mother actually consulted our dentist in the U.S., who then called the doctor in NZ to tell him how to treat the tooth without pulling it. This was also at one of the better dentists in Wellington. Granted, this is just one person's experience, but it's in line with what seems like medical practices that seem 15+ years behind in many regards.
Overall, my life in NZ was one of the highlights of my life. Despite the challenges, I had so many life changing experiences there. The landscape and hiking are unlike a lot of other places. Everyone is super friendly, smart, and easy to get along with. If you're more introverted and feel out of place where you are, you might enjoy NZ better. I know I did, as I was far more introverted in my teens. Yet that was one of the first times I'd had actual friends who genuinely enjoyed my company. I might be tainted from growing up in LA, but everyone in NZ is far less "fake". The food is great if you're willing to forego Mexican food(of which there is none comparable to the Americas).
Thanks for overgeneralising my entire country :/ Dentists typically only pull teeth if you can't afford the fix - that is the one downside to our medical system, medicine is subsidised, dentistry is not, and offering dental insurance as part of an employment contract is very unusual here.
Interestingly, I also know a guy in Dunedin that works in IT; remote for a company up in the Auckland area..
My understanding was that it costs ~100NZD to get a decent connection and I was very surprised to notice than in most hotels / airbnbs it was one of the first things advertised - free WiFi. With our French mobiles, which costs 20e/month, you have unlimited data while in France and 5Go per stay, up to 35 days in a year in many countries (all Europe, US, New Zealand etc).
General browsing is often still a little slower than in the US though, because of the ~200ms latency to the US where most sites are hosted. International bandwidth is pretty good now though - I usually get 200mbit downloads from US servers.
> housing prices are extremely high. I don't understand that, there is plenty of space everywhere (maybe except Wellington) and somehow they manage to not use this advantage..
Yes, it really is crazy particularly when you look at prices relative to salaries. As I understand it, the primary driver is everyone wants to live in Auckland as that's where most of the higher paying jobs are located which is driving up prices. Also, given the city is on an isthmus, the main space is really North and South of the city which increases commute times on already clogged highways.
> housing quality is really poor (comparing to Europe)
This is slowly changing as proper insulation becomes a requirement, but compared to Europe and US houses the quality is incredibly poor.
> prices are generally quite high
For consumer goods, absolutely. Also dining out seemed expensive, but supermarket costs seemed pretty reasonable given the quality of the food.
>internet connectivity feels like we're 10 years back
I was pleasantly surprised by this. I was regularly getting 50-100 down where I stayed, and it appears the government has made ultra-fast broadband a national priority so it should hopefully continue to improve over the next decade. One thing people warned me though is don't expect anything to happen quickly in NZ.
>outside of Wellington and Auckland, I didn't feel like there were any interesting opportunities in IT
Have you looked at Christchurch? Apparently the government is incentivizing companies to build there with the goal of making it the high tech capital of the South Island. I believe Vodafone has some pretty impressive plans for the city.
>food quality is good, but eating habits don't seem to follow. Obesity seems to be a huge problem there (we have kids so will need to pay double attention to that). We were pretty much shocked because we naively thought that in such a beautiful and clean country everybody is running / biking all the time.
I believe this is largely driven by income inequality, much like here in the US. While the food really is phenomenal quality, families at the lower end of the socio-economic ladder are often priced out of the market and default to unhealthy options as a matter of necessity. Also, it was explained to me that a lot of Maori and Polynesian recipes are very fatty which is why they tend to be over-represented in obesity statistics.
Overall my impression after visiting is that it's a great country, but it's not perfect. Prices are higher (due to it's isolation) and salaries are lower, but people tend to worry less about materialistic things and "getting ahead". There seems to be more of a relaxed mood to everything and as my wife contemplate where we want to raise our kids that is hugely appealing.
> Have you looked at Christchurch? Apparently the government is incentivizing companies to build there with the goal of making it the high tech capital of the South Island. I believe Vodafone has some pretty impressive plans for the city.
I was last in Chch a couples years ago, so it may be changing, but my impression was not great. My wife lived there during the earthquake and their recovery has been slow. I think it will improve, especially with increased investment, but it's probably years away from being anywhere like Auckland or Wellington again. Even 2-3 years ago the downtown area was essentially a ghost town from what I remember, and that's still several years post-earthquake.
I found an article [1] about it which contradicts your understanding of the crime here. Auckland is much worse as a city overall, but Cathedral Square in Christchurch is dangerous compared to the rest of the country. I can't find a good comparison of actual crime rates between countries, but did find articles saying the perception of crime risk is way off here compared to reality.
1. http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/79704084/New-Zealand-rates-f...
For food, it seems like for the food problem it's also caused by the lack of 'culinary education' as we may call it in France. Children are eating bad food very early and those habits stick for life.
We too have kids, and it looks like an amazing place to raise them ! People are super friendly, especially to kids. There are playgrounds everywhere, a ton of outside activities to do. One thing bothering me a bit is the lack of history / culture, at least as I know it. This is again very biased by my education, but in Europe, you have castles, small villages with rich history literally everywhere. NZ is much younger so it's not surprising of course. Just a little con I forgot to mention.
But yeah, totally agree on the fears - kids have a lot of freedom there. On the other hand, I believe US is an outlier here too - it's quite frequent in Europe to let kids get back home alone.
South Island is best island buddy ;)
> For food, it seems like for the food problem it's also caused by the lack of 'culinary education' as we may call it in France.
Obesity directly correlates to poverty here.
> One thing bothering me a bit is the lack of history / culture, at least as I know it. This is again very biased by my education, but in Europe, you have castles, small villages with rich history literally everywhere
Yep, we're a young nation, I routinely drink in pubs in Munich that are older than my country - but New Zealand's history is older than NZ, Maori have been here since the 1100s at least. Also, our natural history is very compelling .
Of course, the Maori culture is amazing and I'm eager to learn more about. It's just that I feel like my kids will miss something I had the chance to experience.
I guess if I'm being picky, I'd also pick you up on the point prior; fatty foods aren't necessarily correlated to obesity, but I'm guessing that's not exactly what you're driving at.
Thank you for making me think a little more!
Call it an experiment in whether they can build a country around American tech billionaires. I would wonder whether the prices of things reflect that, and whether it's different if you're a native (or whether there's some other mechanism at work: in Vermont, I pay less for housing because I'm able to declare my home as a homestead. If I was an out-of-stater keeping a summer house in Vermont I'd be paying a different rate.)
It will be interesting to see how New Zealand deals with its influx of hyper-wealthy. That will probably continue until we invent the intercontinental ballistic pitchfork ;)
One point to add - mentioned in other comments in the thread: the Auckland housing market is toxic.
No captial gains tax on property along with crowded population in Auckland means that this is the best investment available, hands down. The yield isn't in the rental market, but appreciation of 30-40% YOY has not been uncommon.
The major side effect of this that many people miss is that business investment has been stifled because property is a far safer bet. Auckland has a very weak startup/VC scene, and salaries have not increased in line with living costs.
It's unlikely to be seen as a major downside by those living in California and along the Pacific Rim, and it's clear NZ is no worse than Japan in terms of seismic risk, yet an advanced economy with plenty of people thrives there, to put it mildly.
But coming from the US midwest and then the southeast, where these issues are seldom a concern, it makes me nervous.
What are your thoughts on that?
But, the earthquake that hit Christchurch directly removed the seismically vulnerable buildings, and typically we've built for earthquakes - hence why our predominant building material is wood not brick or stone.
The whole place feels like it's unstable and ready to blow ! I loved the city, but I'm not sure I could live there, with those constant remainders of the seismic activity (this plus the smell...)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taupo_Volcanic_Zone
Fun fact - Auckland is built on a large monogenetic volcanic field.
Which units of measurement? :)
Housing prices aren't that high outside of Auckland. Auckland housing prices are high for all the reasons you can think of: no capital gains tax, tax incentives to own property, no restrictions on foreign ownership (not even a register of foreign ownership!), very liberal immigration laws, and lots of NIMBYism about increasing housing density.
Almost all immigrants go to Auckland and stay in Auckland, because they see it as where most of the jobs are (and that's true, but only because of what I just said: it's a self-fulfilling prophecy).
>- housing quality is really poor (comparing to Europe)
Older houses are definitely poor. Newer houses certainly aren't. New Zealand houses are built in a different style to those in the UK, or Europe, or the US: they're open-plan, they're built using timber framing, etc. Until a couple of decades ago, double-glazed windows and full insulation weren't mandatory.
>- prices are generally quite high
They are and they aren't. They probably seem higher than they really are because of the exchange rates. A lot of retailers sell imported stuff for way more than they should, because exchange rate has moved in our favour compared to the US in recent years but they haven't adjusted their prices.
Steam games are ridiculously cheap compared to games from a retailer for example.
>- internet connectivity feels like we're 10 years back
Um, no, really it does not. Internet connectivity in NZ is excellent. We have fibre-to-the-door everywhere, or at least will do when the rollout finishes in two years.
>- outside of Wellington and Auckland, I didn't feel like there were any interesting opportunities in IT (that's a subjective and based on a very limited evidence from discussions with local / personal observations)
There are probably more IT jobs in Christchurch than Wellington, honestly. New Zealand is a small country, there aren't going to be a lot of jobs when you discount the three biggest cities, obviously.
>- food quality is good, but eating habits don't seem to follow. Obesity seems to be a huge problem there (we have kids so will need to pay double attention to that). We were pretty much shocked because we naively thought that in such a beautiful and clean country everybody is running / biking all the time.
This is going to be controversial, but I'm going to say it anyway. Obesity is much less a problem if you are white and wealthy. Obesity is a problem in New Zealand if you look at the aggregate statistics for everyone, but that problem is concentrated very highly in poor communities, and mainly poor Maori and Pacific communities. I think that contrasts rather from the US. When I went to the US I noticed that everyone seemed huge. Average-looking people for the population would be considered rather chunky in NZ, and the fat people were enormous. Of course there were people that would be considered normal/healthy in NZ, but they were much less common.
But yes, obesity is a problem, from a government/health-services/etc. perspective. But there isn't some magical chemical in the air that makes everyone fat, and if you are in IT your kids will likely go to a school full of other upper-middle-class kids (which unfortunately translates to the demographics being rather a lot.. lighter), and obesity will be low there.
There is a big push from Government, as they are rebuilding Christchurch, to encourage walking and biking in the city over driving. For environmental reasons, for shop foot traffic reasons, for health reasons, etc.
I'm intending to make a move with my family in near future, and we actually went to visit the northern island for 15 days last month. The country is really beautiful, and there are not a lot of people around, so you can't help but feel blessed by the surrounding nature. The people are great, probably the nicest I've ever seen (as a whole).
I've noted some cons though (not blocking for us thankfully):
- housing prices are extremely high. I don't understand that, there is plenty of space everywhere (maybe except Wellington) and somehow they manage to not use this advantage...
- housing quality is really poor (comparing to Europe)
- prices are generally quite high
- internet connectivity feels like we're 10 years back
- outside of Wellington and Auckland, I didn't feel like there were any interesting opportunities in IT (that's a subjective and based on a very limited evidence from discussions with local / personal observations)
- food quality is good, but eating habits don't seem to follow. Obesity seems to be a huge problem there (we have kids so will need to pay double attention to that). We were pretty much shocked because we naively thought that in such a beautiful and clean country everybody is running / biking all the time.
Would be very happy to hear stories that made the move ! Also very interested to hear about opportunities / work environment there in IT (even better if it's ML related).