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Re:I’m Not “Black Enough” for Inc. Magazine by BadassFractal on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @05:22PM (#13980851)
The guy doesn't fit the narrative that's currently oh-so-trendy, thus he is not deemed valuable to the media. Makes you realize how much intentional selective bias there is in these publications' portrayals of the world.

"Can we cause outrage with this? Nope? Ok, discard this dude, find someone who supports our hypothesis so we get more page views"

Remember, the media are not in the business of keeping the public informed, they're first and foremost interested in putting bread on their own tables, like any other business out there. They like having a job, and these days, given how high our tolerance for absurdity has become, their job requires they come up with the most dramatic and outrageous content they can in order to keep people hooked.

Re:I’m Not “Black Enough” for Inc. Magazine by TorKlingberg on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @05:54PM (#13981078)
On the other hand, this article is on HN because it fits an other narrative. There is never just one "the narrative". There are always two or more competing narratives and people publish, share and upvote stories that fit the one they prefer.
Re:I’m Not “Black Enough” for Inc. Magazine by walrus01 on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @08:10PM (#13982113)
If I had to make an overly broad generalization of the HN readership, people reading links here are more willing than the average person to read an article that disagrees with their preconceived stereotypes and worldview. Whereas mass market media (the magazine Inc, etc) is going in the opposite direction from that.
Re:I’m Not “Black Enough” for Inc. Magazine by chickenfries on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @08:43PM (#13982283)
> If I had to make an overly broad generalization of the HN readership, people reading links here are more willing than the average person to read an article that disagrees with their preconceived stereotypes and worldview.

You're right, that was an overly broad generalization about the readership of a public internet forum.

Re:I’m Not “Black Enough” for Inc. Magazine by kagamine on Wednesday March 29, 2017 @08:17AM (#13985283)
Yeah, let's have a 2-sided conversation about EVs on HN and see. Tesla is God, Tesla is King, Musk will save our souls.
Re:I’m Not “Black Enough” for Inc. Magazine by Larrikin on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @11:21PM (#13983100)
Maybe on which programming language or framework is best. Most articles regarding race/gender discrimination even if they directly involve major tech firms are flagged and downvoted by large portions of the community. If they survive the initial wave, the top comments are usually pretty dismissive
Re:I’m Not “Black Enough” for Inc. Magazine by hueving on Wednesday March 29, 2017 @05:28AM (#13984570)
IIRC the "strange year at uber" article was one of the most up-voted articles this year.

People on here are always willing to read stories with substantiated claims or new information. However, yet another article pointing out how there is a general gender imbalance in the workforce that matches college CS graduation rates is likely to fall flat.

Re:I’m Not “Black Enough” for Inc. Magazine by aaron695 on Wednesday March 29, 2017 @12:35AM (#13983432)
Large businesses being evil is a very common narrative and a lame cliche really.

So if HN is downvoting, it's probably because educated people are not liking being played by a tired narrative.

Major tech firm is worse with race/gender discrimination than the community at large? Please, ever worked blue collar and seen their hiring practices?

They are dismissive for a reason.

If the tech community wants to set a good example, great. Being played to feel like they are worse than society... to smart for that narrative.

Re:I’m Not “Black Enough” for Inc. Magazine by Larrikin on Wednesday March 29, 2017 @12:45AM (#13983470)
If there is an issue it only matters if it's extremely egregious and the worst example?
Re:I’m Not “Black Enough” for Inc. Magazine by aaron695 on Wednesday March 29, 2017 @04:23AM (#13984335)
No. Not at all.

As long as it is reported as such. Which it is not. Hence my point.

[dead]
Re:I’m Not “Black Enough” for Inc. Magazine by theandrewbailey on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @11:22PM (#13983106)
> Meanwhile the story itself is crap and wholly uninteresting in itself. It's pure gossip and speculation and unfounded assertions. I can think of a hundred reasons why a magazine might've decided not to run a story on this guy.

This story is unfounded? Really? We have one solid reason why they didn't run the story:

> Subsequently, several months passed with no word from them. I reached out, and was told by the writer as politely as possible, that the editor killed the story — because I wasn’t the “… archetypal Black entrepreneur to hang the story around”.

Re:I’m Not “Black Enough” for Inc. Magazine by cooper12 on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @08:58PM (#13982359)
It only took 4 minutes for therpe1'a comment to be flagged. Sounds to me like HN isn't actually so inclined.
Re:I’m Not “Black Enough” for Inc. Magazine by lkrubner on Wednesday March 29, 2017 @12:53AM (#13983520)
I'm confused why therpe1's comment was flagged. It makes a reasonable point. It doesn't seem outrageous. There are worse comments here on this page. I would upvote the comment if it was already dead. I am puzzled that this particular comment is the one that is flagged.
Re:I’m Not “Black Enough” for Inc. Magazine by hueving on Wednesday March 29, 2017 @05:34AM (#13984590)
I would guess it was flagged because it didn't have much substance and just wildly lashed around at things said here - claiming it was predictable HN would say those things. Yet every one of those points has been followed up with opposing opinions so the post is trying to paint the HN community as one-sided when it clearly isn't.

So it seems therpe1 is mainly upset that critical commentary takes place here, which is the almost lamest possible thing to complain about. The only thing that would have made it worse is to put something in like "Edit: bring on the downvotes, you know I'm right".

Re:I’m Not “Black Enough” for Inc. Magazine by lkrubner on Wednesday March 29, 2017 @04:40PM (#13990372)
But there are certain types of comments that seem to show up on threads about race. It seems valid to point out that the majority of comments have a particular theme. If some comments are predictable, and I say they are predictable, surely I'm just stating the facts? It's seems like heavy-handed moderation to kill a comment just for that.
Re:I’m Not “Black Enough” for Inc. Magazine by imron on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @09:30PM (#13982505)
That's why it'd be great for a publication to publish a diverse range of narratives, exposing people to both (or multiple) sides of a story and allow people to make up their own minds.
Re:I’m Not “Black Enough” for Inc. Magazine by BadassFractal on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @05:57PM (#13981099)
Conflicting narratives is pretty much how news work, that's just a fact of life, no denying that. Don't know if I would claim that HN has a particular interest in suppressing a certain narrative though, can you explain? Who is to gain here?
Re:I’m Not “Black Enough” for Inc. Magazine by tomlock on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @06:16PM (#13981272)
If discrimination is a real barrier to entrepreneurship - that contradicts the narrative that entrepreneurship is an objective meritocracy.
Re:I’m Not “Black Enough” for Inc. Magazine by BadassFractal on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @06:21PM (#13981316)
I'd be surprised if people here actually believed that to be a successful entrepreneur your starting conditions do not matter.

Your race, your country, your culture, your health, your finances, your dependents, your family all have a massive impact on whether you can stop doing whatever you're doing and focus fully on turning an idea into a high growth business. Maybe it's just me, but I personally believe that it is a huge privilege to have the ability to pursue entrepreneurship.

I could be a coal miner in war-torn sub-Saharan Africa trying to make ends meet to pay for my sick child's care, instead I'm sitting in a comfortable air conditioned office in the Bay, able to complain that the snack selection is not sufficiently locally sourced.

Re:I’m Not “Black Enough” for Inc. Magazine by wpietri on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @10:02PM (#13982698)
I'm sure they'd agree that conditions matter. But people here regularly disagree that gender and race discrimination in the US is a factor in tech. And they have for years, often vehemently and in great volume.
Re:I’m Not “Black Enough” for Inc. Magazine by tomlock on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @06:25PM (#13981364)
What narrative do you think this guy isn't fitting, then?
Re:I’m Not “Black Enough” for Inc. Magazine by hueving on Wednesday March 29, 2017 @05:22AM (#13984548)
Ah, the "well the other news is fake news so this fake news is okay" approach.
Re:I’m Not “Black Enough” for Inc. Magazine by mehaveaccount on Wednesday March 29, 2017 @11:37AM (#13987291)
The people have read your narrative and the article author's and have judged his to be more sound.
Re:I’m Not “Black Enough” for Inc. Magazine by rdtsc on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @11:48PM (#13983222)
> this article is on HN because it fits an other narrative.

Which narrative do you think that is?

Re:I’m Not “Black Enough” for Inc. Magazine by tomlock on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @11:58PM (#13983278)
One potential narrative might be that silicon valley is a meritocracy.
Re:I’m Not “Black Enough” for Inc. Magazine by rdtsc on Wednesday March 29, 2017 @01:09AM (#13983589)
I think people are having an issue with the story at face value - binning people into groups and then taking advantage of that.

It is demeaning and patronizing to hear that you're victim and your race should be what defines you.

The author is trying to say "Here look at the cool business I built with a lot of work and talent. Check out the algorithm I am using etc." and journalist wants to instead write about "Poor black person somehow made it out of a poor neighborhood. Let's point out his race over and over...".

Re:I’m Not “Black Enough” for Inc. Magazine by tomlock on Wednesday March 29, 2017 @01:25AM (#13983672)
What this author is trying to say is separate from the narrative people may try and build off the back of this article.

The narrative built could be that journalists are mistreating successful entrepreneurs by looking for stereotypes.

Also, someone could look at this article and think it signals that discussions about race and its effect on entrepreneurship are now actually harmful overall.

Another narrative could be that the archetypal black entrepreneur is well represented by this guy.

Alternatively, someone could build this into a narrative that black people aren't inordinately effected by poverty.

I don't personally think there is enough quantitative evidence relayed in the article to substantiate any of those narratives, but I'm pretty sure at least one or two of those narratives have been cognitively hardened in someone because they read this article.

Re:I’m Not “Black Enough” for Inc. Magazine by tomlock on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @05:30PM (#13980898)
Similarly - when reading an article that has a single-line quote from a magazine - people can read all sorts of nefarious motivations into it which conveniently fit their worldview.
Re:I’m Not “Black Enough” for Inc. Magazine by yongjik on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @07:45PM (#13981947)
On the other hand, the narrative of a successful black entrepreneur who made it against odds is also the narrative favored by conservatives: "You can overcome discrimination if you work hard. Instead of complaining, just show what you're capable of! If these guys made it you could, too."

It all depends on how you view the story.

Re:I’m Not “Black Enough” for Inc. Magazine by nickpsecurity on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @08:42PM (#13982281)
That is a good point. This is the kind of story they'd cherry pick out to claim the victim or discrimination narratives are either fabricated or just biased research. That they told him he wasn't a fit for what they're looking for would be evidence of conspiracy to push a false narrative.
Re:I’m Not “Black Enough” for Inc. Magazine by abandonliberty on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @05:37PM (#13980942)
It's natural selection, regrettably. Things that won't rile people up display poor fitness. Technically, I think it's a human problem.
Re:I’m Not “Black Enough” for Inc. Magazine by Banthum on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @05:43PM (#13980986)
It's an artifact of the article-by-article payment/consumption model.

It used to be that people would have to buy a whole issue or subscription to a publication. So you'd choose based on the overall reputation of the publication. So that's what the media maximized.

Now, on the Internet, people consume articles for free from many sites based on links. They don't care (and often don't know) anything about the reputation of the publication they're reading. And sites get paid based on views (through ads served). So now the sites are optimizing for getting people to read this article, without much concern about the overall image of the site, which most people won't know anyway.

It's an obvious, huge, and very impactful change in incentives for media people.

Re:I’m Not “Black Enough” for Inc. Magazine by cortesoft on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @05:46PM (#13981016)
Are you sure that is true? I mean, we had the whole Yellow Journalism phenomenon at the turn of the last century, and they weren't selling on an article by article basis. The publications had reputations, but they still got people to read their paper by sensationalizing everything.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_journalism

Re:I’m Not “Black Enough” for Inc. Magazine by pillowkusis on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @06:18PM (#13981293)
>they weren't selling on an article by article basis

there were literally newspaper boys on the streets yelling an outrageous headline and making you pay two cents to read the article itself. I don't think subscription papers existed in large amounts during that time.

Re:I’m Not “Black Enough” for Inc. Magazine by nerfhammer on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @07:02PM (#13981679)
> newspaper boys on the streets yelling an outrageous headline

it's weirdly hilarious to me to think that urban sidewalks used to be analogous to facebook...

Re:I’m Not “Black Enough” for Inc. Magazine by jdietrich on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @11:20PM (#13983094)
When you paid for a newspaper, you paid for the lurid headlines, the coverage of local politics, the funny pages, the investigative journalism, the sports reporting, the crossword etc etc. Nobody in management was entirely sure what part of that mix actually sold newspapers; editors had a large degree of discretion over what went in the paper and who got paid.

Ad-supported online journalism has unbundled news and precisely quantified each part. Management know exactly what each piece of "content" earns. Editors can no longer pretend that the prestige of serious reporting is a worthwhile investment.

Ad-supported online journalism is now almost entirely dependent on traffic from social media. As we have learned from the "fake news" imbroglio, reputation means almost nothing in this arena. You're only as good as your next clickbait headline.

As I see it, the only future for quality journalism is subscription-based, one way or another. Adsense is killing journalism.

Re:I’m Not “Black Enough” for Inc. Magazine by 5thaccount on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @09:37PM (#13982546)
I think there is a LOT in this, as individual pageviews dictate revenue more than reputation, However, I think there is a misnomer about pageviews vs reputation.

In Australia, the equivalent of the NYTimes is probably The Age or the Sydney Morning Herald. On both sites, people read a lot of gossip. I haven't seen stats recently, but when a mate worked there they were usually the top stories on any given day outside say Steve Irwin dying.

Someone can read gossip anywhere - so why go to a reputable site to do it? I think people still go to reputable sites because they can convince themselves they aren't one of the masses that reads gossip. Oh no. They read The Age / NYTimes etc.

The publications that chase pageviews at the expense of reputation threaten to destroy that convenient delusion, and I wonder if, longer term, that will hurt the bottom line. Fake News SHOULD be a huge financial gain for the mainstream media, as reputation is the number one factor people suggest when working out if something is fake news. So more than even reputation is the key - even when the goal is more gossip pageviews.

Re:I’m Not “Black Enough” for Inc. Magazine by threeseed on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @05:59PM (#13981116)
No it's not an artefact of that monetisation model at all.

The fact is that tabloid, clickbait style of journalism has been going on for decades and was popularised by Rupert Murdoch first in the Australia then UK then the US. What we see on many online websites are merely digital versions of The Sun, Daily Mail, Daily Telegraph etc which were all very popular news publications.

Re:I’m Not “Black Enough” for Inc. Magazine by pillowkusis on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @06:59PM (#13981657)
This is the central thesis of Trust Me, I'm Lying by Ryan Holiday. The internet ruined media by changing the revenue model to a per-article rather than per-subscription basis. He made this claim in 2012, long before most people recognized how dangerous the changing media ecosystem was going to be.

Great book, if you're looking to understand how media in the internet age became such a disaster I recommend it highly.

Re:I’m Not “Black Enough” for Inc. Magazine by JBReefer on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @05:49PM (#13981041)
There's an incredible write-up on this effect by Scott Alexander, that goes into depth about the cultural propagation on the internet of exactly the phenomena you're describing.

https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/12/17/the-toxoplasma-of-rage...

Re:I’m Not “Black Enough” for Inc. Magazine by BadassFractal on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @05:39PM (#13980951)
Indeed. They need to be at that sweet spot where they're maximizing outrage, but the content is still plausibly true vs say.. tabloids, where a ton of content is completely fabricated and people know it.
Re:I’m Not “Black Enough” for Inc. Magazine by TeMPOraL on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @05:45PM (#13981000)
Re:I’m Not “Black Enough” for Inc. Magazine by MarkMc on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @11:30PM (#13983141)
I think the selective bias is simply to choose interesting stories, not push a narrative. The guy who was 'Not Black Enough' simply did not have a particularly interesting story to tell.

Although there is a focus on black urban poverty, the media will sometimes also tell the other side of the story. For example, here [1] is a New York Times from last year: "Poverty is far more prevalent in black households than the general population, but the vast majority of African-Americans do not live in poverty. According to census data released last year, 26 percent of blacks live in poverty, compared with 15 percent of the country as a whole"

That sounds like a pretty balanced statement to me.

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/25/us/politics/donald-trump-...

[dead]
Re:I’m Not “Black Enough” for Inc. Magazine by BadassFractal on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @05:52PM (#13981060)
Nobody is talking about a cabal, I don't see how you extracted that from my post, that's a straw man.

I explicitly said that these people follow a very basic desire to be successful in their jobs, make a living, and keep their companies growing. Unfortunately the way they accomplish that is at the cost of objectivity for their readers.

Re:I’m Not “Black Enough” for Inc. Magazine by threeseed on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @05:56PM (#13981092)
"Remember, the media are not in the business of keeping the public informed".

This is a factually baseless statement that you invented and then decided to make an entire point around. The media is not a cohesive entity. It's the equivalent of saying "all people are murderers".

Re:I’m Not “Black Enough” for Inc. Magazine by SAI_Peregrinus on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @06:24PM (#13981348)
It's nothing like that. It's clarifying the definition of a group.

The set of people involved in "the media" are, by definition, in the business of creating and publishing media (news, opinion pieces, entertainment, etc). Success in this business does not require keeping the public informed, but it does require selling content. Thus, the group as a whole is in the business of selling content, and not necessarily in the business of keeping the public informed.

Re:I’m Not “Black Enough” for Inc. Magazine by logicallee on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @06:37PM (#13981474)
[I've decided to delete this comment as it didn't generate good discussion. The reply it got was a complete non-sequitur.]
Re:I’m Not “Black Enough” for Inc. Magazine by fav_collector on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @06:56PM (#13981629)
So what you're saying is that I can get into all ivies with a 2200 SAT score and 3.8 GPA?

And get internships at top companies based on my race?

And have parents and family who can speak proper english and understands American culture?

Sign me up.

Re:I’m Not “Black Enough” for Inc. Magazine by alaskamiller on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @06:02PM (#13981151)
This is such a juvenile view of how things work.

Remember, the media are not in the business of keeping the public informed, they're first and foremost interested in putting bread on their own tables, like any other business out there

Short circuit logic, here you conflate things to make it disregard the first statement and push your own agenda.

1. A media business is not necessarily the same as a news business.

2. Either way both a media business and a news business are in the business of creating and selling stories.

3. Both a media business and a news business can have objectives of both selling stories that inform the public and sell junk to the public.

4. Stating like any other business doesn't serve any credibility to your argument, rather you're trying to slant a profit motive as evil. Would non-profits providing news services be the only good people in your head?

They like having a job, and these days, given how high our tolerance for absurdity has become, their job requires they come up with the most dramatic and outrageous content they can in order to keep people hooked.

Because they like jobs therefore they must be willing to take the low road to whatever they can to earn the duckets those jobs? So they create sensationalized and dramatized results, to use generalities to gloss over nuanced matters?

Kind of like this post here?

Good job.

Everyone's in the business of selling stories. You tried to sell yours but I'm not buying it.