It would be trivial for people to intercept the PIN number when it is entered on the seller's phone. That's why competitor devices (iZettle, PayPal) all have a keypad and screen on the card reader itself, it lowers the possibility of interception of the PIN number.

In fact, I am fairly sure that I read in the past that the credit card companies wouldn't allow this type of implementation.

I would certainly feel very uncomfortable entering my PIN number into someone's phone.

--

EDIT:

So, from what I can tell the design of the PIN entry keypad for EMV is governed by ISO 9564[1], which states:

  "The PIN entry device shall be physically secured so that it is not feasible to modify its operation or extract PINs or encryption keys from it."

1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_9564

I would be interested to know whether they're either capping the amount that can be charged, or are taking some of the liability themselves.

Square will also be looking to get as many people on contactless as possible, because with Apple Pay / Android Pay you can exceed the usual capped limit in the UK (I believe it's something like £30 with a regular contactless card before PIN entry is required).

All the normal Verifone, Ingenico etc EMV devices have built in key pads.

I hope they aren't trying an end-run around PCI certs?

1) Amex the same price as other cards. Amex has low penetration among small retailers in the UK because they traditionally cost a lot more to accept.

2) Square are very up-front with costs. All the major banks hide their costs - requiring you to call their sales weasels to get a quote.

3) The card reader cost is the same as PayPal - but Squares costs are fixed @ 1.75%. Paypal's are 1.5%-2.75%. The same applies with iZettle - there's a variable cost which is quite opaque for small businesses.

Essentially, if you don't want to jump through hoops and worry about getting screwed over by small print, it looks like Square is compelling.

I'm not a user but I see that iZettle has an up-front calculator to tell you what your % fee will be. It reaches 1.75% at £6200 which I believe means it's cheaper for most shops.

[a] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IZettle

Interestingly Square seems more expensive than iZettle. Square is flat 1.75% in-person 2.5% online while iZettle is sliding 2.75%-1%. The threshold seems to be £6200/month at which point iZettle is going below 1.75%. That's pretty low so I suspect most shops would still chose them.

Guessing they've had offers, but not good enough to make them sell and they're still able to raise capital.

Square's market cap is currently $6.51B and here's there balance sheet: https://markets.ft.com/data/equities/tearsheet/financials?s=...

I am really curious what was the thinking behind Square's UK launch (if there was). At least as a business traveler (and admittedly in London, the financial center of Europe), I saw no space in the market for Square to enter.

[1] (The ONLY place I could not use Android Pay was Apple Store)

That's a bit slow for the UK, most payments settle in 5 minutes with an upper limit of 2 hours for bank-to-bank transfers…

I worked on a similar unit at a lower pricepoint back in 2014.

Unfortunately that was for London 'unicorn' Powa, and we all know how that went...

The support says:

> Credit card processing with Square is available in the 50 United States, Canada, Japan, and Australia. Payments can only be processed in the country in which you activate your account. For example, if you activate your account in the United States, you’re not able to process credit card payments in Canada, and vice versa.

Hopefully they are working to open up now that they are launching in the UK.

It seems that they're claiming to be cheaper for small businesses. Is that true? Their per-transaction fee seems pretty high, and their device is about the same price as a chip and pin reader.

They also have mobile payment support, but surely that's just a gimmick at this point?

No, it's a growing sector. It also mostly comes for free once you have contactless in place.

Their offering seems to be more than just a card reader, they bundle a PoS app too.

Not saying it's the best thing since sliced bread, but it does seem like a fairly complete package.

edit - can I ask why I got a downvote? Not sure I said anything contentious there.

I added the one card which doesn't support contactless to my iPhone wallet but being able to use my debit card is much easier (plus I don't have to worry about draining its battery).

There may be better security through Apple/Android pay, IIRC they don't expose a real card number, and the phone must be awake (and sometimes unlocked) to process a payment.

Regardless, it's irrelevant - the processing tech for android/apple pay is the same as for other contactless cards, so it comes for free - lots of places supported it without even knowing. That sandwich shop reader already supports phone payments most likely. I like it - saves me fiddling with my wallet.

As an extra capability that appeals to some folks it's a no-brainer to market it as a feature.

Sure, it's probably only a few percent at present. Your objection seems to be "I don't use that, therefore they shouldn't mention it on their page", no?

Oops, that's not my intended message at all! I don't care what they say on their site & I certainly don't expect them to pay attention to the rants of random HN commentators…

I know people don't use their phone to pay for things here, and I don't understand why you think it will help Square make any inroads into the UK market.

>> I know people don't use their phone to pay for things here

Where is here?

I've seen folks in London using their phone to pass the Oyster/underground gates, and I see people at work use their phones every day in the on-site eatery. When I brandish my phone at the McDonald's drive-through for a coffee, the staff don't look at me like I'm crazy, they hold out the machine. I'm really not sure why you think that it's objectionable.

I don't understand why you think this feature is important when so many existing consumers will use their contactless card to make payments instead.

Making it crystal clear:

Why do YOU think this is good? In actual concrete terms, i.e. this allows contactless payment for purchasing automobiles which is a gamechanger because …

Not sure how trustworthy that is, exactly.

--edit-- You can find their PTS approval here - https://www.pcisecuritystandards.org/ptsdocs/Contactless_Chi...

--edit 2-- That's the only one with ICC and contactless I can find, but it talks about USB connections. This surely must be approved for untethered/bt connections? Hmm

Edited to add disclosure: I work for Square, but I don't know the details of our agreement with Square Enix, and I don't know what I'd be allowed to say about it if I did. :-)

That Japanese company is Square Enix (formerly Square, before the merger with Enix), makers of the Final Fantasy games. I'd imagine the US Square must have paid a fairly non-trivial amount for whatever deal was made.

  Registrant Organization: Square Enix Holdings Co., Ltd.

E.g. Corona is called Coronita in Spain and Puma used to be Dasslerpuma, too.

I don't know about the trademarks though.

what i meant is rich company that can drag you through the courts for 15 years till you're bankrupt