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Re:Two Indian engineers at Garmin in Kansas shot, one killed by vallavaraiyan on Friday February 24, 2017 @07:18AM (#13722894)
High time citizens from rest of the world actively boycott travelling & working in the USA. It is just not worth getting shot by a random idiot while walking on the street.
Re:Two Indian engineers at Garmin in Kansas shot, one killed by malikNF on Friday February 24, 2017 @07:48AM (#13723112)
This kind of news about racists and bigots running around the country coupled together with the fact that one person at the border can mess up your entire life for not giving away your passwords makes me want to stay away from the U.S for now.

Don't get me wrong, visiting the US has always been a dream for me and almost everyone I know, since it was this place where someone could go to make something of themselves, you know a place where they accepted and rewarded you for the hard work you did. May be we grew up and now realize that dream was just really good marketing. Who knows, I am just sad I have to read stuff like this too frequently these days.

Re:Two Indian engineers at Garmin in Kansas shot, one killed by Inconel on Friday February 24, 2017 @08:02AM (#13723217)
I can understand your unease with visiting the US, and I certainly don't wish to dismiss your valid concerns, but I think tragic and hateful events like this can also serve to highlight the good in people.

It should be noted that one of the injured was some random white dude who tried to pursue the gunman.

Again, I understand why you feel the way you do and I'm not dismissing those concerns, but there are a lot of wonderful people in the US as well.

Re:Two Indian engineers at Garmin in Kansas shot, one killed by malikNF on Friday February 24, 2017 @08:25AM (#13723399)
Agreed. And to add to our comment his name is

Ian Grillot the hero in this story. There is a go-fund me page that was set up for him by his sisters.

https://www.gofundme.com/a645d-ians-road-to-recovery

Re:Two Indian engineers at Garmin in Kansas shot, one killed by navs on Friday February 24, 2017 @09:36AM (#13723961)
Sadly all it takes is a gun in the hands of a non-wonderful person. Not dismissing your comment but as an Indian, I'm seeing the damage just one a can do compared against the wonderful people.
Re:Two Indian engineers at Garmin in Kansas shot, one killed by Inetenbr on Friday February 24, 2017 @09:57AM (#13724170)
Other than the US, which countries do you feel provide similar opportunities to immigrants? I'm currently 17 years old and it has been my childhood dream to somehow make it to the US, but such news deeply saddens me and insights fear into my mind. It is with deep regret that I have to read such news everyday and realise that it just takes 1 messed up person to destroy your life. Aren't there any other countries where hardwork would pay and dreams could come true, without having a general fear of getting shot?
Re:Two Indian engineers at Garmin in Kansas shot, one killed by Eridrus on Friday February 24, 2017 @11:39AM (#13725178)
There's nothing quite like it, but there are alternatives that may be better along different (mostly cultural) axis. If it's your desire to work for a big tech company, they have offices in Europe and elsewhere, it's not quite HQ, but it's an option, particularly given how challenging the visa situation is.
Re:Two Indian engineers at Garmin in Kansas shot, one killed by freeflight on Friday February 24, 2017 @09:47AM (#13724069)
>This kind of news about racists and bigots running around the country coupled together with the fact that one person at the border can mess up your entire life for not giving away your passwords makes me want to stay away from the U.S for now.

Couple that with the fact that you are being fingerprinted and photographed, like you are some kind criminal, just because you want to visit the country and spend money there. That alone is enough for me to never visit the U.S..

Re:Two Indian engineers at Garmin in Kansas shot, one killed by vallavaraiyan on Friday February 24, 2017 @07:59AM (#13723182)
"since it was this place where someone could go to make something of themselves, you know a place where they accepted and rewarded you for the hard work you did"

absolutely. im saddened that it feels so risky to visit/work in a country founded on(and to a large part lived up to) such lofty principles.

Re:Two Indian engineers at Garmin in Kansas shot, one killed by mikeash on Friday February 24, 2017 @09:48AM (#13724072)
This is just as silly as the people who say that we need to ban Muslims from entering the US because they're too dangerous.

Your odds of being murdered in a hate crime in this country are quite low. You're far more likely to be killed by a drunk driver or by falling down the stairs. As a general rule, any event that shows up in the national news is something not common enough to be afraid of, because anything that common is no longer newsworthy pretty much by definition.

Re:Two Indian engineers at Garmin in Kansas shot, one killed by karussell on Friday February 24, 2017 @10:20AM (#13724381)
FYI:

There were 33,636 deaths due to "injury by firearms" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_Sta...

And there were 32,719 fatal car crashes http://www.statisticbrain.com/car-crash-fatality-statistics-... (ok, not serious source but I guess the real numbers are not too far away)

Re:Two Indian engineers at Garmin in Kansas shot, one killed by mikeash on Friday February 24, 2017 @10:24AM (#13724422)
Traffic fatalities have ticked up quite a bit in the past couple of years, with about 40,000 deaths in 2016, but the rough magnitude is correct.

But I'm specifically talking about hate crimes. The vast majority of those firearm deaths were suicides, and the vast majority of the homicides weren't hate crimes. According to the FBI, there were 18 murders that qualified as hate crimes in 2015 (the most recent year available): https://ucr.fbi.gov/hate-crime/2015/topic-pages/incidentsand...

Re:Two Indian engineers at Garmin in Kansas shot, one killed by Eridrus on Friday February 24, 2017 @11:47AM (#13725264)
When I first moved to the US (Capitol Hill, Seattle), reading the local news about someone being shot and killed in street robberies gone wrong a few blocks from my apartment were a bit of a shock having moved from Australia.
Re:Two Indian engineers at Garmin in Kansas shot, one killed by karussell on Friday February 24, 2017 @10:32AM (#13724516)
If you ask me but 11K deaths via gun (homicide!) are way too much
Re:Two Indian engineers at Garmin in Kansas shot, one killed by mikeash on Friday February 24, 2017 @10:35AM (#13724554)
I totally agree, but that doesn't really affect my point.
Re:Two Indian engineers at Garmin in Kansas shot, one killed by karussell on Saturday February 25, 2017 @02:48PM (#13733440)
Don't get me wrong: I know what you wanted to say but your counter argument was wrong
Re:Two Indian engineers at Garmin in Kansas shot, one killed by mikeash on Saturday February 25, 2017 @04:10PM (#13733839)
I don't understand, what was wrong exactly?
Re:Two Indian engineers at Garmin in Kansas shot, one killed by LevGoldstein on Friday February 24, 2017 @04:24PM (#13728043)
...the majority of that 33,636 number being suicides:

>21,175 suicides

Re:Two Indian engineers at Garmin in Kansas shot, one killed by ivraatiems on Friday February 24, 2017 @10:25AM (#13724442)
Correct, but how many people died in the average fatal car crash?

Also, how many of those gun deaths were accidents, suicides, etc.?

Re:Two Indian engineers at Garmin in Kansas shot, one killed by karussell on Friday February 24, 2017 @10:32AM (#13724526)
Read the wikipedia entry ;)
Re:Two Indian engineers at Garmin in Kansas shot, one killed by zipppy on Friday February 24, 2017 @10:11AM (#13724302)
Sure, our current statistics show your statement to be true. But, I think many people are alarmed at the trajectory of hate and intolerance in the US.

Also, being murdered is the worst thing that could happen, and maybe that event is still rare, but a set of stairs isn't going to harass you or discriminate against you. There's a whole spectrum of bad things that could happen to people because of the climate in the US.

Re:Two Indian engineers at Garmin in Kansas shot, one killed by mikeash on Friday February 24, 2017 @10:13AM (#13724320)
The original comment said, "It is just not worth getting shot by a random idiot while walking on the street."

If you want to talk about other negative aspects, then fine, but that's a gigantic move of the goalposts.

Re:Two Indian engineers at Garmin in Kansas shot, one killed by palerdot on Friday February 24, 2017 @10:22AM (#13724401)
Care to explain why?

For me, getting shot while walking on the street and getting shot when having a normal conversation in a bar looks almost same.

I genuinely want to know, what is the difference between the above comment and this particular incident. Because, this reasoning might also be the reason, why in U.S people prefer to have guns in their daily life (where living is the goal, and not how to prevent dying).

Re:Two Indian engineers at Garmin in Kansas shot, one killed by mikeash on Friday February 24, 2017 @10:26AM (#13724447)
I think you've misunderstood the conversation. I am including getting shot while having a normal conversation in a bar. When I pointed out how unlikely it is to get shot as part of a hate crime, the response moved the goalposts to include "a whole spectrum of bad things that could happen" including non-fatal harassment and discrimination.

Having someone call you names or refuse you service, while bad, isn't what the original comment was talking about.

Re:Two Indian engineers at Garmin in Kansas shot, one killed by vallavaraiyan on Friday February 24, 2017 @10:07AM (#13724271)
assuming normal distibution, murder is at one extreme of the bell curve of hate. it's not just about getting shot.
Re:Two Indian engineers at Garmin in Kansas shot, one killed by binarymax on Friday February 24, 2017 @09:02AM (#13723689)
Please don't do this. In fact I encourage the opposite, that people travel more (not just to the US), and further solidify the idea that we are one planet that needs to unite and should not be afraid to travel.

Overwhelm the borders. Double or triple the numbers. Show peacefully that we are positive and not backing down to the pettiness and ignorance of the current (and temporary) leaders and their cronies.

Re:Two Indian engineers at Garmin in Kansas shot, one killed by palerdot on Friday February 24, 2017 @11:04AM (#13724836)
On this note, I would encourage people to visit India (my country). I think the general perception people have (or had) about India is poor people all over the place begging. But, you will be amazed at how demographics (language, food, culture, day to day way of living) change for every 100 miles and still we stick together irrespective of countless language, religion, caste and cultural differences.

But, on the other hand, I'm also amazed that with so many people in US carrying guns in their daily lives, it is a miracle that most people are walking and living and doing some great things. Whatever it is, this whole gun culture is beyond my comprehension and I think it is good thing.

Re:Two Indian engineers at Garmin in Kansas shot, one killed by Eridrus on Friday February 24, 2017 @11:50AM (#13725306)
This is completely the USA's own responsibility to fix. This is your responsibility to fix. Don't expect anyone to risk life and limb for your failures.
Re:Two Indian engineers at Garmin in Kansas shot, one killed by mildbow on Friday February 24, 2017 @09:14AM (#13723789)
Why?

Why bother risking personal harm to visit a country that expressly doesn't seem to want you?

Edit: Would down-voters like to comment on why this isn't a valid stance?

Re:Two Indian engineers at Garmin in Kansas shot, one killed by binarymax on Friday February 24, 2017 @09:29AM (#13723898)
The country wants you to visit! Please don't mistake the misguided actions of a few as the opinion of the entire country.
Re:Two Indian engineers at Garmin in Kansas shot, one killed by PMan74 on Friday February 24, 2017 @10:46AM (#13724651)
While this particular incident is the action of the one nutter, 63m people voted for Trump despite his anti Muslim, anti Mexican, etc. rethoric & his alt-right team. So I'd have questions about what the opinion of the entire country actually is. If I were a person of colour/muslin faith I'd be even more reluctant.
Re:Two Indian engineers at Garmin in Kansas shot, one killed by BEEdwards on Friday February 24, 2017 @09:37AM (#13723967)
Despite all harassment that you'll receive at the border an the snide comments you'll receive from the people, we want you here!
Re:Two Indian engineers at Garmin in Kansas shot, one killed by Inetenbr on Friday February 24, 2017 @11:30AM (#13725066)
I agree with your opinion. Why visit a country that elected a President that completely opposes immigrants coming into his country? USA's President has made it very clear that the country doesn't want any immigrants. I know that he's facing a lot of backlash and most people here would say that they're not with the same view as Trump, but guess what? Trump calls the shots for at least the next 4 years. It is extremely saddening, but the United States government is officially showing immigrants the finger.
Re:Two Indian engineers at Garmin in Kansas shot, one killed by X86BSD on Friday February 24, 2017 @11:23AM (#13725000)
I don't feel it is valid because it is rather nonsensical to group an entire country of 300 plus million into the same teaspoon of, at most, a handful of mentally insane killers.
Re:Two Indian engineers at Garmin in Kansas shot, one killed by mildbow on Friday February 24, 2017 @12:55PM (#13725890)
It's not about saying everyone or even most people in the US are racist. It's about considering whether a visit would be marred by the current miasma of (institutional?) racism/anti-immigrant sentiment.

For example: would you, as a US citizen, choose to visit Iran vs going somewhere else?

Re:Two Indian engineers at Garmin in Kansas shot, one killed by trynumber9 on Friday February 24, 2017 @08:24AM (#13723390)
isn't that what an anti-immigrant terrorist wants?
Re:Two Indian engineers at Garmin in Kansas shot, one killed by geodel on Friday February 24, 2017 @08:57AM (#13723652)
Huh. It is up to govt of other nations to raise this issue or issue travel/work advisories. Instead Indian govt for the lure of dollars is pushing for more visas and ease of travel would do show anything more than 'concern'.
Re:Two Indian engineers at Garmin in Kansas shot, one killed by rhapsodic on Friday February 24, 2017 @07:30AM (#13722989)
If you don't mind saying, what country are you from?
Re:Two Indian engineers at Garmin in Kansas shot, one killed by oblio on Friday February 24, 2017 @07:37AM (#13723033)
Well, he's probably from a country with fewer guns per capita than the US.

Which means.. all of them.

Why would a developed country need 112 guns per 100 residents is beyond me. The US:

* is less dangerous than Yemen (where there's a war going on right now)

* most likely has smaller hunting areas than Russia

* has a standing army, unlike Switzerland

yet it still has more guns per capita than any of them!

Re:Two Indian engineers at Garmin in Kansas shot, one killed by maxerickson on Friday February 24, 2017 @08:23AM (#13723385)
Nearly everywhere in the US that isn't city is open to hunting. A big exception is the National Park System, but only a few of those are very large. Of course Russia is the largest country by land area so what you say is likely to be true, but still, pretty much everyone in the US is fairly close to viable hunting grounds.

Of course not everyone hunts, but then owning 2 or 3 firearms for different types of hunting isn't really outlandish.

Re:Two Indian engineers at Garmin in Kansas shot, one killed by oblio on Friday February 24, 2017 @08:37AM (#13723495)
> Of course not everyone hunts, but then owning 2 or 3 firearms for different types of hunting isn't really outlandish.

The US literally has more than 1 gun per person. The US population includes:

* children

* senior citizens

* disabled citizens

* urban residents who most likely see hunting grounds once per decade

* the largest prison population in the world

* etc.

I don't buy your argument.

Re:Two Indian engineers at Garmin in Kansas shot, one killed by specialp on Friday February 24, 2017 @09:03AM (#13723701)
I bought a shotgun to shoot clay, and then I was given another shotgun that was 70 years old from someone who was cleaning out a relative's house that just died. I now own 2 guns bringing the guns per capita in my household to 1.

Guns unlike cars which also approach 1 per capita never really disappear. Not saying this is a good thing. Over the history of our gun owning country a lot have been made. Surely there are nuts out there that buy an arsenal but many guns are handed down over the years and kept. People also collect historical weapons.

It is hard to understand as suburban/city dwellers like myself, but in most other places in the country it is perfectly fine to be given granddad's guns and to keep them around adding to the statistics.

Re:Two Indian engineers at Garmin in Kansas shot, one killed by karthik248 on Friday February 24, 2017 @09:34AM (#13723938)
Just so you know, I am from the same City and University as the victim in this story. In our country(most other countries too) we, the common citizens, which includes most of the population, don't own firearms, use firearms, even as show-pieces or even see them everyday. It is hard for us to understand why they even allow you to own them.
Re:Two Indian engineers at Garmin in Kansas shot, one killed by X86BSD on Friday February 24, 2017 @11:31AM (#13725080)
Perhaps if you did the British would not have robbed your country blind. Unlike almost every? Country on this planet our constitution was written to protect the people from the government.

Giving your citizens the RIGHT to keep and use arms is a vital part of ensuring freedom and that tyranny by government or invading armies is terminated at the will of the people.

Would the British have invaded India had everyone been armed like the US citizenry is? I seriously doubt it. The army would have been liquidated by the people in short order. It would be suicide to invade a country of that many armed people.

This is why we have a right to own them. Because armies invade and governments become tyrannies.

Re:Two Indian engineers at Garmin in Kansas shot, one killed by palerdot on Friday February 24, 2017 @03:03PM (#13727288)
Your point that every person in the then India carrying a weapon would have prevented a British Invasion is downright dumb.

The whole idea of current united India came from opposing the British Rule. Before that, India was just numerous bunch of small kingdoms ruling their own tiny part of current India.

British entered India as East India Company, a trading arm of Britain, which I think is wholly independent of Britain in its ability to rule (politically and military wise) the parts of the world where it had trade operations.

You should also note that Britain had America under its control before US gained independence. If we just extend your logic, then you mean, US got independence just because all of its population were carrying a gun, and not because of strong will shown by personalities like Washington to have an independent nation.

Re:Two Indian engineers at Garmin in Kansas shot, one killed by fellellor on Friday February 24, 2017 @12:28PM (#13725637)
IIRC, weapon ownership in India was pretty common during the Raj. The British then introduced something called the Arms Act, I don't recall the correct name though, which forbid civilians from opening firearms and even edged weapons like swords. Also there are some districts in UP where per capita gun ownership is extremely high.

Your narrative of British invasion of India is plain wrong. Also if the USG decided to become a tyranny there is nothing that the citizenry can do about it in this far and age. Guns or no guns.

Re:Two Indian engineers at Garmin in Kansas shot, one killed by miraj on Saturday February 25, 2017 @09:02AM (#13731608)
The USA/USG is and has been a tyranny for many years now.
Re:Two Indian engineers at Garmin in Kansas shot, one killed by oblio on Friday February 24, 2017 @12:57PM (#13725902)
You're so far off it's not even funny. The British robbed his country blind because it was divided. It was splintered in dozens of small states the British pit against each other.

Britain could have never conquered a fully united India, the same way it couldn't conquer China (though it chipped away at it for the better part of a century).

Regarding invasions, who's going to invade you? Canada? Mexico? Even if someone wanted to/could, they wouldn't be afraid of your personal weapons but instead they'd be afraid of your nuclear arsenal, of the largest navy, airforce and military budget in the world. A military budget equal to that of the next 10 countries.

All your guns do is promote unreasonable policing practices where people are shot on sight cause you never know if a suspect is carrying a gun. Oh, they also have a great side effect: if you ever have major internal problems or say, a civil war, millions of people will die cause everyone has a gun. Not that a lot of people wouldn't die either way, after all we've been using knives and machetes for millenia, but there's a reason all of today's armies use guns as the main infantry weapons.

Re:Two Indian engineers at Garmin in Kansas shot, one killed by shripadk on Friday February 24, 2017 @01:43PM (#13726365)
> Would the British have invaded India had everyone been armed like the US citizenry is? I seriously doubt it. The army would have been liquidated by the people in short order. It would be suicide to invade a country of that many armed people.

The British never "invaded" India. This is a common misconception about Colonial Rule in India. Read about the "Company Rule in India" to understand better: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Company_rule_in_India

TLDR: The British established the "English East India Company" in 1600 to trade with India and did well for almost 150 years. The British had made friends with local princes and nawabs promising them protection if they allowed them to establish their Company. During the same time, the Portuguese, French, Dutch and Danish began to establish their businesses in other princely states of India. This caused friction between the British and the rest causing civil wars to break out. These wars continued for almost 200 years more and involved princely states fighting each other for the benefit of the foreign companies established in their states.

This in turn caused weakening of the princely rulers and strengthening of the foreign companies which commanded garrisons (supplied by the princely rulers) and funded by their business. This shift in power was instrumental in the British devising the Annexation policy called "Doctrine of Lapse" which was signed by these unsuspecting satraps. The doctrine basically stated: "Any princely state or territory under the direct influence of the British East India Company, as a vassal state under the British subsidiary system, would automatically be annexed if the ruler was either "manifestly incompetent or died without a male heir"." This along with the "Divide and Rule policy" enabled the British to establish a Colonial rule in India. All battles the British fought were through proxies (loyal princely satraps) and very rarely did the British actually involve in the fight. Once the Colonial rule was established (powers of the Company were transferred back to the Crown), the British started abusing their powers which in turn caused a surge in Nationalism (read about the First War of Indian Independence of 1857) which eventually ended in the Independence of India (in 1947).

The British technically never waged a single War (there were small skirmishes/battles) with India because that would have triggered all princely states to come together and fight them.

Re:Two Indian engineers at Garmin in Kansas shot, one killed by karthik248 on Friday February 24, 2017 @12:39PM (#13725742)
Well, you can never feel safe around a person who carries a gun around with him. I guess you keep a radioactive deposit under you to keep people away. And point guns at people with your FREEDOM to have your way.

There are other ways of protecting people and their rights other than having animals roam around who will shoot whenever there is conflict of interests(I understand that not everyone is like that).

Re:Two Indian engineers at Garmin in Kansas shot, one killed by palerdot on Friday February 24, 2017 @11:28AM (#13725048)
You might want to clarify that you mean same city and university from Hyderabad, India. When I was reading your comment, it looked like you were speaking about Kansas.
Re:Two Indian engineers at Garmin in Kansas shot, one killed by maxerickson on Friday February 24, 2017 @08:56AM (#13723643)
What argument is it you think I am making?

I thought I was saying that hunting can make a large contribution to gun ownership and not trying real hard to quantify it.

Re:Two Indian engineers at Garmin in Kansas shot, one killed by vallavaraiyan on Friday February 24, 2017 @07:39AM (#13723049)
India, down south, from Madras
Re:Two Indian engineers at Garmin in Kansas shot, one killed by rhapsodic on Friday February 24, 2017 @07:59AM (#13723184)
Edit: Information about Madras Oregon deleted.
Re:Two Indian engineers at Garmin in Kansas shot, one killed by erggr4tyh4y on Friday February 24, 2017 @08:01AM (#13723210)
You have linked to Madras, OR, USA.

They are from Madras, Tamil Nadu, India.

Re:Two Indian engineers at Garmin in Kansas shot, one killed by nottorp on Friday February 24, 2017 @08:07AM (#13723261)
Rofl. Just like the shooter picked on the indians thinking they're arabs. If you're trying to prove that americans have no idea there is a world outside their borders, you're succeeding wonderfully.
Re:Two Indian engineers at Garmin in Kansas shot, one killed by rhapsodic on Friday February 24, 2017 @08:22AM (#13723383)
>Rofl. Just like the shooter picked on the indians thinking they're arabs. If you're trying to prove that americans have no idea there is a world outside their borders, you're succeeding wonderfully.

Actually, it was the existence of Madras, Oregon that I was unaware of. That's why I assumed the page was about Madras, India.

Re:Two Indian engineers at Garmin in Kansas shot, one killed by notalaser on Friday February 24, 2017 @08:30AM (#13723438)
To be fair, the map you linked to was entirely unhelpful, seeing how it didn't display big bald eagles and a star-spangled banner next to the Ochoco National Forest, the Warm Springs Reservations and Camp Sherman.
Re:Two Indian engineers at Garmin in Kansas shot, one killed by wavefunction on Friday February 24, 2017 @10:03AM (#13724229)
Well, and Madras is now Chennai.
Re:Two Indian engineers at Garmin in Kansas shot, one killed by enraged_camel on Friday February 24, 2017 @08:05AM (#13723243)
The difference is that he isn't very likely to get killed in Madras because of his skin color.
Re:Two Indian engineers at Garmin in Kansas shot, one killed by erggr4tyh4y on Friday February 24, 2017 @07:32AM (#13723004)
Vallavarayan is a Tamil name.