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Re:Raising the American Weakling by maxcan on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @02:07AM (#13641808)
Many of the comments here seem to be focussing on increasing grip strength but that misses something the article could have delved into more. Grip strength is strongly correlated with health and longevity, but its not directly causal - simply increasing your grip strength wont really add many years to your life. Instead grip strength is strong correlate with overall musculo-skeletal mass and strength, which does have a highly causal relationship with health and longevity. So, focussing purely on grip strength will do more to break the correlation than give you a long life.

If you want to have a healthy, long life focus on overall strength. Squats, deadlifts, odd-object carries etc. If you're new to lifting, have someone who isn't show you proper form. Or just read Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe. Its the bible of heavy lifts.

Source: I can deadlift more than 3 times my bodyweight while still having a 7 min mile.

Re:Raising the American Weakling by ekidd on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @07:06AM (#13642931)
> If you're new to lifting, have someone who isn't show you proper form.

I cannot emphasize this enough. And even then, be extremely careful with heavy lifts (anything more than, say, what your body weight would be at 20% body fat).

I worked regularly with an extremely good Rippetoe-certified coach. My form was better than most of the beginners you see in the gym. At 40, I was stronger than I was as a high-school athlete, and it was an amazing feeling.

But one day, a 245x5 squat set went very slightly weird. Two days latter, I had tingling and numbness in my foot soles. It turns out that I'd aggravated a relatively minor disk bulge at L4/L5 (about half the population has a disk bulge there). And now I've been in moderate pain for close to three months with very slow improvement.

The long-term prognosis is excellent, as far as I know. I will almost certainly heal. I know plenty of people who've done worse to their backs and who are fine today.

But heed my example: If you're going to do heavy lifts, especially deadlifts or squats, make sure your form is as close to perfect as you can get it, and remember that you can't eliminate all risk.

One thing I have noticed: There are no 55- to 70-year-old powerlifters in the gym. But there are old bodybuilders who've been lifting for 40+ years with only the rarest of injuries. They're careful, and they say things like, "I don't like the risk/reward on heavy squats." When I return to serious lifting, I'm considering on giving up on powerlifting and switching to a more bodybuilding-centric program.

Re:Raising the American Weakling by Icedcool on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @09:35AM (#13643726)
"One thing I have noticed: There are no 55- to 70-year-old powerlifters in the gym. But there are old bodybuilders who've been lifting for 40+ years with only the rarest of injuries."

I've noticed this as well, and I've heard it correlated to having an aim in the gym vs sticking to your regimen. That the body builder has an aim, and if something hurts a bit they'll work around it and let it heal. While a powerlifter will push through it (sticking to their routine) inevitably ending in injury.

The point being, don't give up power lifting.. but listen to your body and move away from the PUSH IT/Deviation from routine is failure, kind of attitude.

The idea is explored here by the glute boss, Bret Contreras: https://www.t-nation.com/training/why-bodybuilders-are-more-...

Re:Raising the American Weakling by gonzo on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @10:52AM (#13644356)
Last March I had a upper right glute spasm while squatting my second set of 260lbx4. I finished the rep, but not the set.

It took months to get back to weight. PR a couple weeks ago of 308lb. Bench 290lb, DL:423lb.

So I'm closing in on 1,000 lbs combined. (Just haven't done it all in one day.)

As to your no old power lifters comment, I'll be 55 in May. While I'll never be a competitive power lifter, I still enjoy lifting.

I have no plans to "give up".

Re:Raising the American Weakling by ChemicalWarfare on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @09:57AM (#13643862)
>> One thing I have noticed: There are no 55- to 70-year-old powerlifters in the gym

I don't see too many people over 50 in ANY gym. When I hung around PL gyms however I did see older lifters doing their thing, obv. concentrating more on reps but still competing. The kicker is in that age 50+ group just getting out on the platform gets you some kind of a trophy :)

Back injuries suck. Get an inversion table if you don't have one yet.

Re:Raising the American Weakling by maxcan on Wednesday February 15, 2017 @01:26PM (#13654145)
Sorry to hear about your back, glad that you're gonna heal.

One note about 55-70 year olds powerlifting vs body building is that they tend to be a lagging indicator since people don't usually start late in life. Also, in the 80s and 90s, bodybuilding was far more popular than powerlifting, so it would make sense that there'd be fewer people in that age category powerlifting.

There are exceptions though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zjhSlJN-Qw

Re:Raising the American Weakling by careersuicide on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @01:13PM (#13645665)
The same thing happened to me about 4 months ago except it was deadlifts. I think I somehow let my back rotate a bit when I was on my way down. An MRI revealed a slightly bulging/dehydrated L4/L5 disc. My leg days have since been infrequent and very light with no deadlifts at all. My chest is looking better than ever though...

The sad thing is I haven't been doing a powerlifting routine at all. I decided a couple of years ago when I started lifting that I'd rather look good than be able to lift super heavy weight. I was only deadlifting about 1.2 times my body weight.

Re:Raising the American Weakling by rsync on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @01:30PM (#13645837)
This HN comment thread is a day or so old so perhaps you won't read this, but as someone who had an L4/L5 bulge 14 years ago, my most emphatic recommendation is that you walk as much as possible.

Certainly you need to do all of the rehab/prehab strengthening exercises you can - and you need to do them for the rest of your life - but the real turning point for me and that back injury was beginning to walk regularly.

Your body (and your back) are built to walk. Walking will heal you. Yes, it might hurt more and be uncomfortable for the first week or three, but after that, everything tightens up and fires up and tones up ... and all the pieces of your spine put themselves back into place.

I am over 40 now and have been doing (relatively) heavy squats and straight leg deadlifts for the past ten years. Totally asymptomatic.

Re:Raising the American Weakling by graeme on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @11:10AM (#13644500)
I've been coming to this train of though myself. I still want to lift, to have my bone system deal with weight pressing on it. But I don't want to injure myself. I've had a few small things that kicked me out of the gym for 1-2 months. I worry what a bigger one would look like.

Does your 20% heuristic change at all for the type of lift? For me that would lead to a bench press near my PR, but a squat and deadlift far below. So bench would feel a bit overpowered if they're all the same. But then again, bench seems less risky.

Re:Raising the American Weakling by ekidd on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @12:00PM (#13644962)
I wouldn't trust my heuristics for what counts a "heavy lift." And some of this is clearly age dependent—I may have been stronger at 40 than I was at 20, but I don't heal nearly as fast!

But I think most people have a danger zone. This is the point where screw-ups start to get dangerous, and you don't want to be doing sloppy deadlifts or squats with a wobbly core. For some people, this might be two plates. For others, it might be the first time they have to reset their deadlift. Or it may be the point where you start getting minor injuries. (It may also depend on genetics: I have reasonably robust shoulders, but an unusually short sciatic nerve and easily-annoyed pyriformis muscles.)

If you're self-taught using videos or books, then when you reach that point, I would recommend paying for a serious powerlifting coach. A lot of self-trained lifters have way too little core tension, or are making other dangerous mistakes. Personally, I worked with a Starting Strength certified coach who was excellent, and who fixed all sorts of mistakes I was making—but it still wasn't enough.

Depending on how completely I recover from this injury, I might just freeze my deadlifts and squats at 225x5 permanently, and focus on a safe subset of bodybuilding lifts. But I do recommend talking to older lifters, and asking them about how they avoid injuries. I've known some admirably buff 55- and 65-year-olds with good injury histories—but they seem to focus on a combination of moderate strength and aesthestics, not on raw powerlifting totals.

Overall, weightlifting is statistically one of the safer sports. But injuries are just a miserable experience, and I encourage people to think about these issues before they're forced to learn about spinal anatomy, MRIs and anti-inflamatory drugs (or about rotor cuffs).

Re:Raising the American Weakling by graeme on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @01:11PM (#13645644)
Thanks! It's the healing that worries me. I'm 31. Still strong, but I don't bounce back as fast as I did at 20.

I think up to about 160 it's hard to injure myself with squats or deadlifts. I weigh 150 and am lean. I might just stick around there. It still produces a good physique + strength for me.

I've also been considering sandbag exercises at home after reading about it in this thread. I started bouldering recently as well, which seems to have a more manageable risk profile if I approach it incrementally. (But I need to research that)

Re:Raising the American Weakling by dnackoul on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @02:03PM (#13646126)
I wish I would have seen this thread yesterday!

My advice to almost everyone is to prioritize consistency and enjoyment over perfect planning. For almost all working professionals, their plans fail on consistency instead of selecting optimal exercises. If you like bouldering, give it a shot. Jiu-jitsu / wrestling is another good activity that'll keep you strong. You'll be better off with either of those than a lifting regiment where you miss days often.

As for weightlifting, the problem people have with handling heavier weight isn't necessarily knowing the form, but being able to keep form as their numbers go up. Core strength is one of the most obvious problems, but you can also have other muscles that aren't quite as strong and those deficiencies become problems when you're doing heavy compound lifts. A good coach won't just teach you form, but identify the areas you need to improve in order to safely handle heavier weight.

If you want to pursue weightlifting / powerlifting, my best advice is to find a gym with a lot of lifters you can make friends with and elite level lifter or two. You'll pick up a lot from observation (in addition to the coaching you get) and the social aspect will make it easier to keep coming back.

Re:Raising the American Weakling by autokad on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @09:14AM (#13643586)
squats are extremely dangerous, and I dont think anyone should do them. it only takes 1 set of bad form to permanently damage one's back or knees.

that doesnt stop body builders from spreading the gospel of squats, even as they have copious knee and/or back problems.

Re:Raising the American Weakling by Neliquat on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @09:48AM (#13643804)
This is patently untrue. Provide some data or get out of here. Squats are universally accepted as one of the best natural movements of the body to train.
Re:Raising the American Weakling by Osiris30 on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @10:22AM (#13644051)
But neither is loading 3x your bodyweight onto your spine "natural". What does "universally accepted as one of the best natural movements" mean? - As you suggested to the previous comment, please "Provide some data or get out of here".

It all depends on your objective and goals. As with everything moderation is key. A balanced program of squats, deads, pushing exercise (chest/pecs) and a pulling (back/delts) is best for oevrall muscle, bone and tendon health. Whether you do this via free weights, body weight, or machines is really not material.

Rippetoe style heavy free-weight squats, squats and more squats is not the be all and end all of resistance training. Personally, I got into heavy strength training with Rippetoe's books and videos - and, IMHO, he did a great service by educating people about the benefits of heavy (free weight) strength training using a very very simple ('KISS') type program (at a time when the focus was on machines and overly complicated routines). His routines are great for beginners - especially very young ones - hence why they are copied and 're-mixed' so much (like Stronglifts 5x5 and countless variations thereof).

And I would really not suggest heavy squats for improving grip strength - that would be a very inefficient way to train your hand grip.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/squat-versus-le...

http://www.thedreamlounge.net/barbell-squat-worst-exercise/

http://ericcressey.com/newsletter91html

https://criticalmas.com/2012/06/i-no-longer-give-a-squat-abo...

http://community.myprotein.com/off-topic/28225-mark-rippetoe...

https://forums.t-nation.com/t/rippetoe-ripped-apart/191700/7

Re:Raising the American Weakling by autokad on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @11:18PM (#13649651)
how is this natural?

https://www.bodybuilding.com/images/2016/may/what-all-squate...

i agree that squats CAN be good for you, but I am stating that the risks outweigh the benefits. Just one bad form squat in your entire life, and you can permanently damage your knees or back. there are much safer exercises that train the same muscles.

as far as provide some data or get out of here, unfortunately I do not know of any good data source on weight lifting injuries and hazard rates.

The best I have is baseball, the toll being in the squatting position takes on players knees is, to use some of the language you have used, 'universally accepted'.

Re:Raising the American Weakling by mladenkovacevic on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @09:55AM (#13643852)
This is merely an anecdote but I've had knee pain most of my life (since age 8 or 9).

I started doing squats in my late 20s and by the time I reached my body weight I've never had knee pain since. I'm in my mid-30s now.

I do recognize that with bad form and overloading your knees in the wrong way the result could easily have been completely blown out knees.

Re:Raising the American Weakling by jeffdavis on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @11:47AM (#13644846)
I use squats as part of my exercise routine to keep my knees in shape.

Mostly near my body weight but lower recently because I haven't been doing it regularly enough. So pretty low weight.

Re:Raising the American Weakling by harveywi on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @09:33AM (#13643704)
Poppycock.
Re:Raising the American Weakling by markatkinson on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @10:24AM (#13644071)
I used to do a lot of lifting. Did the Starting Strength which was awesome and definitely the most enjoyable regime.

However I just got a bit bored of it all and kind of felt like I always had my ear on the ground for something more interesting, or technical (I do miss squats).

To get to my point I started climbing a few months back and it has totally hit the spot for me. It is incredibly technical, you have both indoor and outdoor options, and you also build incredibly functional strength. Including improving your grip strength more so than in any other sport.

This is totally anecdotal, and of course climbing gyms are not as common as normal gyms. But just in case someone is reading this and wants to give something else a try I highly recommend it.

Also you get to buy some cool gear which is always nice.

Re:Raising the American Weakling by and0 on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @10:55AM (#13644387)
Also started climbing a month ago, after having enjoyed trying it like ~5 years ago (but no gyms where I lived).

It's incredibly satisfying. A mix between problem solving and physical exertion. I've never been a gym rat but I'm excited for my skin and grip strength to return so I can go back every 2-3 days and nail that next level of difficulty.

Re:Raising the American Weakling by Bartweiss on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @11:40AM (#13644794)
I recommend climbing on so many levels, and for some reason it seems to 'click' particularly well for a lot of programmers.

Most obviously, it offers some whole-body fitness that I don't find boring. But I've gotten a lot of secondary benefits that are hard to pass up. It's gotten me into normal weightlifting because "to climb better" is a clearer motivation than "to be healthier".

And it's a fantastic way to build strength comprehensively. As soon as one body part (bicep, wrist, hip flexor, whatever) taps out you'll struggle to keep going, so you tend to develop whatever is weakest. There's a lot of incentive to work flexibility, too, which can be dangerously ignorable for new weightlifters.

Re:Raising the American Weakling by at-fates-hands on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @10:56AM (#13644396)
>> But just in case someone is reading this and wants to give something else a try I highly recommend it.

Completely agree.

I just started out and we have several indoor climbing places where I live. I've been trying to find an alternative to having my body being beat up playing hockey two to three times a week and thought this was a good alternative.

First of all, it doesn't cost a lot to get involved. I've found it works my whole body out, engages my brain in a way hockey simply can't and has really made me focus on how my body moves since my grip strength just isn't there yet. So far, I like it a lot and would also recommend it to anybody.

Re:Raising the American Weakling by maxcan on Wednesday February 15, 2017 @01:29PM (#13654167)
To be honest, I got a bit bored of pure strength training a few years ago and moved to crossfit. Since then my lifts have almost doubled and my form has improved too.

I think you're doing the absolute right thing with climbing. Its not about finding the most optimal physical return on investment for an hour of work but finding something you love so its not work at all.

Re:Raising the American Weakling by hutzlibu on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @07:01AM (#13642912)
"If you want to have a healthy, long life focus on overall strength. Squats, deadlifts, odd-object carries etc."

... or do something that applies your strength in the outside world, like climbing ;) Bonus points for fresh air and awesome view ...

Re:Raising the American Weakling by gadders on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @06:18AM (#13642723)
Farmers Walks are good as well. I've done 80kg in each hand for 20m (at a bodyweight of 105kg).

//edit// and at the age of 45.

Re:Raising the American Weakling by maxcan on Wednesday February 15, 2017 @01:22PM (#13654111)
They're excellent. Also, much more of a full body, compound movement than people realize.
Re:Raising the American Weakling by pdog on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @10:13AM (#13643964)
Is this a joke? Heavy lifters and bodybuilders don't live a healthier or longer life—they generally die younger and have more health problems.

The scientific consensus is that endurance exercise like walking or running is much better for you than lifting (in terms of longevity, cardiovascular and health benefits).

Re:Raising the American Weakling by cesarbs on Wednesday February 15, 2017 @11:10AM (#13652994)
Do you have any sources for that?
Re:Raising the American Weakling by Hydraulix989 on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @02:23AM (#13641870)
That puts you in the most elite category for fitness (at least for strength): http://www.exrx.net/Testing/WeightLifting/DeadliftStandards....

The bar is a lot higher for mile times, but 7 minute mile still is top ~25% of the American population, given we're all so sedentary.

Re:Raising the American Weakling by sandworm101 on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @02:31AM (#13641896)
Top 25% doesn't sound all that great given how many are totally incapable of running a mile in any time. I once looked up my swimming pace for a typical workout (15min x 5km). That's well within the top 0.1%. Navy SEALs dont swim that well. But given that probably less than 1% of the general population swim any laps regularly, it isnt saying much.

Fyi, if you want to feel good about your swimming, lookup the youtube vids of the navy seals swimming standards. I know 12yo kids who could pass them. Their pace wouldnt even qualify for the 'fast' lane at my local lap pool (50m/minute).

Re:Raising the American Weakling by defen on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @04:24AM (#13642326)
SEAL operators aren't selected for pure speed - they want the guy who is capable of swimming 20 miles after being awake for 48 hours, if that were to be necessary. There's a (high) baseline level of fitness, but more than that it's about insane willpower, esprit de corps, and ability to handle stressful situations.
Re:Raising the American Weakling by sandworm101 on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @10:08AM (#13643931)
Ive had this discuss with drill a instructor. He asked, barring hypothermia, how far a competative swimmer could go before drowning. My estimate is something like 100km. Swimming slowly, say 0.5m/second, is easier than walking for such people. They would be dead of dehydration before they drown.
Re:Raising the American Weakling by sonthonax on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @08:44AM (#13643428)
Most of those who I know, who are in SF units can do a mile in under 6 minutes.
Re:Raising the American Weakling by 3chelon on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @05:42AM (#13642588)
Your statement about 12 yo kids is an understatement - while I'm plodding along doing 50m every 45 sec (admittedly over a distance), the 12 year olds from my local club are leaving me standing. They're probably aiming towards 50m in around 30 sec.

I'm sure the special forces guys are much bigger and heavier than that and as another commenter said, speed will not be their top priority.

Re:Raising the American Weakling by sandworm101 on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @09:55AM (#13643851)
50m in under 30, and 100m under 60, are a sort of baselines for when swimming gets serious.

In the SEALs defense, such speeds are horribly inefficient for even the best swimmers. Water gets very thick, with each second below those times requiring a redoubling of efforts. Seals care mote about distance and survival than speed.

Re:Raising the American Weakling by crestedtazo on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @04:24PM (#13647341)
Wow! That seems like a pretty slow swimming pace to anyone who has swam in a competitive settings. It is shocking that that pace is top 0.1% of swimmers.

But your observation seems accurate, not many people swim.

Re:Raising the American Weakling by sandworm101 on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @08:54PM (#13649093)
45s/lap for 5km, the swimming version of a half marathon, isnt slow.
Re:Raising the American Weakling by crestedtazo on Friday February 17, 2017 @03:24PM (#13671399)
If you have ever swam in a competitive setting (a swimming race), then you are aware that 45s/lap IS, in fact, a very slow pace.
Re:Raising the American Weakling by rorykoehler on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @06:42AM (#13642822)
7 year old me would destroy 30 year old me in the pool.
Re:Raising the American Weakling by LaurensBER on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @09:53AM (#13643840)
15 min x 5km

I'm a reasonable swimmer but this really confused me. I assume you meant 15 min x 5 because 15 x 5 KM would be insane.

Re:Raising the American Weakling by sandworm101 on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @10:28AM (#13644110)
1km in 15minutes, five times in a row. My freestyle cruising pace is 45s/lap. In reality, my routine is slower than that due to drills, kicking, and other strokes. But on occassion i do 5 or 10 km of freestyle just to time myself.
Re:Raising the American Weakling by pyromine on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @02:28AM (#13641890)
That's absurd, I had surgery and couldn't do anything for 3 weeks, once finally cleared my second run I ran a 6:30 mile.

How is it that as a society we've devalued physical health so strongly.

Re:Raising the American Weakling by afarrell on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @03:06AM (#13642045)
There is a myth that physical ability is a trade-off against mental ability. You see this in the slogan "sleep is for the weak" and in the stereotype of the nerd as sedentary. It is a myth--the brain is a part of the body and by nurturing the body you support the brain.
Re:Raising the American Weakling by newhere420 on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @09:22AM (#13643637)
Taken to extremes, though, there is a trade-off. Keeping generally fit is probably within the reach of most nerd-types and helpful for their mental state. However, actually being physically competitive at a high/elite level requires investing a lot of time in training, diet plans, etc. Similarly, being an elite programmer (or anything else) requires investing a huge amount of time in the craft. I imagine that people who manage to achieve both peak physical fitness and peak mental ability are rare outliers.

The stereotype of nerd as sedentary applies to me, to an extent. I think this is because, genetically, I have a number of physical problems, and also come from a poor background. For most of my youth, I was unable to achieve at a competitive level due to these problems - I have never won a single race, medal or trophy (as where I am from, they are only given out for sporting achievements). However, when I got a computer, my life changed. Suddenly I could create and achieve using nothing other than a keyboard and an internet connection. So in my case, the sedentary nature of my existence probably drove me toward computers, rather than the inverse.

Re:Raising the American Weakling by Hydraulix989 on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @04:13PM (#13647239)
"I imagine that people who manage to achieve both peak physical fitness and peak mental ability are rare outliers."

I know quite a few people here in SF that do both. I used to be a state-competitive athlete in Pennsylvania, but I can't even keep up in SF with the times that a lot of my fellow nerds here throw down in Strava (still have a few though, running up the hill on Misson St, one lap around Bernal Heights Park, and running through Almaden Quicksilver Trail San Jose!).

High school athletics is a good way to get into a good college, when you already have academics on par with the majority of applicants (otherwise, it's a crapshoot to get into Ivy League schools with <10% acceptance rate and >90% of the applicants have near-perfect SAT scores).

Re:Raising the American Weakling by harveywi on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @11:48AM (#13644861)
> Taken to extremes, though, there is a trade-off That's some circular reasoning.

YMMV, but maybe consider making fewer excuses for your "inability" to perform physically and stop diffusing blame in every direction except the right one (i.e., at you).

Actually, I don't care what you do or think personally, but (assuming you are commenting in good faith...) your demoralizing and plain wrong statements about a putative inverse relationship between mental and physical fitness, and your funny rationalization of your failures, are exactly the kinds of bad cultural tropes that are malforming the bodies and minds of what should have been the healthiest and most performant bunch of homo sapiens to crawl the planet.

Re:Raising the American Weakling by newhere420 on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @12:18PM (#13645156)
Where is the circular reasoning? There are a fixed number of hours in the day, and I presume that becoming elite at either a mental level or a physical level, for most people, requires focus for the majority of your waking hours. My assumption may be wrong, but I don't see any circular reasoning. Note that I say that I think most people can achieve a good general level of fitness.

As far as my own issues go, I think you're speaking from the perspective of someone who has no medical issues and assuming that everyone else is similarly healthy. I have rheumatoid arthritis and hypermobile ehlers-danlos syndrome (amongst other problems). I try to keep fit, have special shoes and joint supports, do everything my physiotherapist tells me to do, and I exercise fairly intensely for at least an hour a day. But ultimately, I have physical limits that despite continual medical intervention, have proven resistant to treatment besides painkillers. In the last month alone, I've been to hospital 6 times. There's a good chance I won't be able to walk more than a few hundred metres by the time I'm 30, and currently if I try to push myself too hard, I typically end up injuring myself and needing to go to hospital.

A computer, for me, and other people like me, can be one of the most transformative purchases of our lives. On a computer, nobody knows you're disabled and you can do almost everything that an able-bodied person can. Arthritis can be a problem, but heated gloves help a lot with that.

Re:Raising the American Weakling by gadders on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @06:25AM (#13642751)
Mens sana in corpore sano.

You should pray for a healthy mind in a healthy body.

Ask for a stout heart that has no fear of death,

and deems length of days the least of Nature's gifts

that can endure any kind of toil,

that knows neither wrath nor desire and thinks

the woes and hard labors of Hercules better than

the loves and banquets and downy cushions of Sardanapalus.

What I commend to you, you can give to yourself;

For assuredly, the only road to a life of peace is virtue.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mens_sana_in_corpore_sano

Re:Raising the American Weakling by rusk on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @04:16AM (#13642297)
I think this myth emerges from the high-school jock vs nerd archetypes. The HSJ spends his time training, chasing chicks and neglecting his studies, while the more studious get on with their school work. Of course in reality you have smart people that are all-star footballers and stupid people who study, but I guess the less nuanced picture still dominates people conscience. I guess particularly because the school years are most formative.
Re:Raising the American Weakling by bluebeard on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @04:13AM (#13642283)
To add to that, lifting heavy weights causes the central nervous system to fire off huge amount of electrical signals to muscle groups. While this does cause fatigue which can leave you feeling "hazy", I would not be surprised if it improved cognitive endurance for other tasks. And I have to comment on the irony of sleep being the most important factor in muscle recovery, along with a good diet.
Re:Raising the American Weakling by nvarsj on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @07:53AM (#13643156)
> It is a myth--the brain is a part of the body and by nurturing the body you support the brain.

Is there any evidence backing this up? I hear it proclaimed a lot, but there are plenty of examples of brilliant people who are not physically strong, such as Stephen Hawking.

Re:Raising the American Weakling by eloff on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @08:43AM (#13643417)
I've seen quite a lot of evidence in support for this. I won't do your googling for you, but it's out there if your interested.
Re:Raising the American Weakling by dragonwriter on Wednesday February 15, 2017 @01:33PM (#13654206)
> There is a myth that physical ability is a trade-off against mental ability.

It's not a myth that time you spend, e.g., in the gym is time that's not available for, e.g., programming practice, and vice-versa. Ability beyond raw potential takes time to devop and maintain, and time is a limited resource. TANSTAAFL.

Re:Raising the American Weakling by Hydraulix989 on Saturday February 18, 2017 @11:37PM (#13678214)
When I spend an hour running every day, my productivity when I'm not running is boosted enough to make the lost time more than worth it.
Re:Raising the American Weakling by katzgrau on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @06:14AM (#13642712)
I prefer to view it in reverse (and word it differently) - the body is an organ of the mind.

But I would agree - the mind and body are powerfully complimentary.

Re:Raising the American Weakling by sonthonax on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @08:40AM (#13643395)
How heavy are you may I ask? I am 90kg, I can do a mile in 5.45 (tested in an army reserves fitness test) and don't feel I can deadlift more than 220kg safely, but then again I can do many reps of that.
Re:Raising the American Weakling by necrobrit on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @09:00AM (#13643519)
That's an excellent deadlift if you are doing it for reps.

Handy for reference: https://symmetricstrength.com/standards#/90/kg/male/-

Re:Raising the American Weakling by ChemicalWarfare on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @07:01PM (#13648517)
even a single 485 @198 lbs is more than decent.

if you're repping it and your max is probably somewhere the mid 500s then you're approaching "elite" level according to USPA: https://www.lift.net/2013/05/09/classification-standards-for...

Re:Raising the American Weakling by Bartweiss on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @11:36AM (#13644755)
Thanks for this. I was baffled to see so many comments explaining how to "fix your grip strength".

It's not a bad thing to do, as a climber I care a lot about grip strength, but it's not a significant total-health goal. Grip strength is highly predictive partly because people don't train it, and so it represents overall fitness and muscle development. Working hand strength in isolation just breaks that predictive relationship without producing the overall health improvements that come from an active life and whole-body fitness.

Re:Raising the American Weakling by andrewljohnson on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @11:10AM (#13644497)
If you want to live a long life, weight lifting is counterproductive, especially if you become very massive.

Instead, you want to be small, fit, and not eat much (which means not doing unnecessary exercise). For example, this paper discusses how caloric restriction extends life spans for rodents, primates, and humans across the board: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1568163716...

Re:Raising the American Weakling by scotch_drinker on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @11:15AM (#13644534)
Living a long life isn't the goal. Living as long a life as you can while at optimal health is. Being a small runt who doesn't eat much and who is always sick isn't a very admirable goal. The inverse correlation with grip strength and all cause morbidity is likely related to people with strong grips are sitting at their desk with Captains of Crush grip exercisers. They are likely in the gym, doing deadlifts, working with physically demanding objects, etc.

Our push to extend life span has resulted in us being old, pathetic weaklings. A long life that has the last 20 years spent in a variety of sicknesses sounds awful.

Re:Raising the American Weakling by martinko on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @03:05AM (#13642036)
TL;DR: Do deadlifts.
Re:Raising the American Weakling by rusk on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @04:12AM (#13642277)
I'd love to, but my knees are banjaxed. Making do with leg press, bench and other compound exercises with heavy weights. If you can't squat, deadlift etc. for whatever reason just lifting heavy weights (free weights if at all possible) is the next best thing.
Re:Raising the American Weakling by jat850 on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @08:30AM (#13643337)
OT but I'd never come across the term "banjaxed" before. Thank you for introducing this to my vocabulary. I can't wait for my first meeting of the day today!
Re:Raising the American Weakling by omginternets on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @09:53AM (#13643834)
Deadlifting with proper form should not tax your knees. It's certainly gentler than a leg-press...
Re:Raising the American Weakling by rusk on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @10:20AM (#13644033)
Deadlifting maybe now that I think of it would in theory be okay, but my physio has me on a course of isolation exercises and has advised against complex compound movements because we're trying to correct muscle activation patterns. Leg press isnt ideal but it's a good way to develop the glutes without introducing too much lateral force. My particular issue is a badly eroded knee-cap which tends to float about a bit. The specialist I've seen has described it as advanced arthritis but I'm fairly sure it's not - just the effect of years of road running with poor form and injury. Going by the MRI scan it's about half the size it should be. Not a question of 'if' I need a knee replacement but when ...

Anyway, no more running for me, and as much as I dislike spending time in the gym a short burst of heavy weights a few times a week really is a great tonic!

Re:Raising the American Weakling by omginternets on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @12:17PM (#13645147)
>just the effect of years of road running with poor form and injury

If I had a dime for each time I heard this... :(

I wish you a speedy recovery!

Re:Raising the American Weakling by jschwartzi on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @08:46AM (#13643437)
try straight-leg deadlifts. As a bonus they're a great hamstring stretch.
Re:Raising the American Weakling by u_wot_m8 on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @10:41AM (#13644248)
As a former D1 athlete I don't think anyone should do deadlifts. Seen lots of people have their form slip on one rep and take a trick to snap city.
Re:Raising the American Weakling by graeme on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @11:14AM (#13644526)
Is there a weight limit they'd be safe for? A comment upthread suggested bodyweight at 20% bodyfat.

I strained a muscle in my left back on a deadlift and have been cautious since. But I do like barbells – I'm wondering if there's a safe level where you can do lifts without so much risk. (assuming form is fairly good)

Re:Raising the American Weakling by antisthenes on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @01:08PM (#13645615)
Squats and Deadlifts up to your body weight should be fairly easy for any otherwise healthy male.

Best thing I've learned from bodybuilding and yoga - listen to your body. If you feel any discomfort beyond normal muscle contractions - stop, rest, and come back tomorrow. Do slower, more controlled movements that tax your muscles more than your joints.

Calisthenics is generally very safe as well (compared to powerlifting), and you can build up an impressive physique doing it.

Re:Raising the American Weakling by test1235 on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @04:22AM (#13642321)
... and squats to sort out the problems caused by sitting all day at office jobs.
Re:Raising the American Weakling by darkerside on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @05:46AM (#13642605)
Grip strength is actually not a terrible place to start regardless of direct causality. When most people start weight training, particularly the major pulls (deadlifts, pull ups), the grip is the first part of the lift to fail.
Re:Raising the American Weakling by yummyfajitas on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @10:18AM (#13644013)
Depends on physiology. I have very big hands, and that makes gripping a bar really easy. To train grip I need to use Phat Gripz (this thing: http://amzn.to/2kG9XSf just look at the pic) when deadlifting for reps.

Some years back I was practicing martial arts. Certain disarms just didn't work on me simply because of how far around the weapon my fingers went.