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Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by captainmuon on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @03:02AM (#13528644)
Uber is a company, it is not organized in a union. I would never expect them to participate in a strike and effectively order their drivers to stop working. Just like a taxicab company doesn't participate in the strike, but the drivers do.

This is like if Coca Cola workers went on strike, and problem blamed Pespi Co of breaking strike by not sending their workers home??

Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by leereeves on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @03:49AM (#13528854)
This wasn't a strike, it was a political protest.

By not participating, Uber naturally made enemies among a group of people with a tendency to boycott everyone they disagree with.

(I'm not taking sides here, just pointing out that this was a predictable outcome.)

Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by masklinn on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @03:59AM (#13528905)
> This wasn't a strike, it was a political protest.

The taxis started a strike action (in support of the protest, but a strike nonetheless).

> By not participating

strike-breaking.

> I'm not taking sides here

Of course you are.

Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by Chris2048 on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @05:48AM (#13529442)
A competing service that continues BAU without participating has the result of undermining the aim of the strike - to disrupt services.

The term 'strike-break' is usually used when that service has some obligation or agreement to participate in the first place. In this case, the strike was ineffective because there was enough competition/redundancy to cope with the withdrawn services.

Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by leereeves on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @04:06AM (#13528942)
I thought the union (not the individual taxis) called for the work stoppage.

Perhaps we can call it both a strike and a political protest.

There doesn't seem to have been any way for Uber to avoid (being perceived as) taking sides, but how am I taking sides?

Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by titanix2 on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @08:52AM (#13530486)
If the taxis are doing a strike, you can speak of strike breaking only for taxis not participating in it. Uber are not taxis per se, so there is no way they can break a strike they aren't doing in the first place.

Also there seems to be a confusion made on strike and strike consequences or demonstration. Being on strike only means stop working, not directly blocking access or service (although it is often done in conjunction). So again Uber providing service for people not serviced by taxis can not be labeled of strike breaking: Uber didn't prevent any taxis to be on strike if they want to do it.

Aside my opinion on the matter as a French who suffered more than one time from strikes is that Uber did a good job by allowing people to live their lives normally. Not being able to move, send a mail, study, lend a book, ... is really frustrating.

Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by sethev on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @09:18AM (#13530683)
That seems like an absurd splitting of hairs. Under that logic the concept of a strike breaker couldn't exist. "It was coal workers who were striking, but the replacements are not coal workers per se they were non-participating laborers who happen to perform the same function"
Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by prodigal_erik on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @11:37AM (#13532139)
If my mom arrives at the airport and needs a ride, am I supposed to refuse because of the strike? Will the union let me vote on the strike on that basis?
Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by Mtinie on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @02:41PM (#13534443)
> If my mom arrives at the airport and needs a ride, am I supposed to refuse because of the strike?

Do you intend on charging your mother for the ride she needs? If your answer is "of course not," you aren't providing the same function as a taxi.

Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by PhasmaFelis on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @10:56AM (#13531602)
> Uber are not taxis per se

Of course Uber (and Lyft) are taxis. It's a service that you call to have a guy in a car come pick you up and take you directly to your destination. It's a different kind of taxi, certainly, but it's still a taxi.

It's very fashionable right now for startups to pretend that they're really a completely different industry than the one they're trying to disrupt, to distance themselves from the stodgy image, but marketing rhetoric doesn't make it so.

Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by sleepybrett on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @11:28AM (#13531985)
> to distance themselves from the stodgy image

or, ya'know, regulatory laws.

Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by PhasmaFelis on Wednesday February 01, 2017 @09:30PM (#13547584)
That, too.
Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by nickpsecurity on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @01:03PM (#13533307)
That's exactly what happened. Uber wasn't under any obligation to do a time- or money-wasting exercise started by third parties that didn't give a damn about them. It's not even likely to change what's going on given that starts in Washington with support of powerful people and the man's voters. So, no reason to take part in it for achieving a political goal.

Now, on business side, image management is so important it's a huge industry. Many businesses have gone under or lost substantial money when their brands were tarnished by what potential buyers thought of them. Looks like they made another bad move on this front. Most Fortune 500 companies would at least pretend to care more than Uber does. Also in a way highly visible to customers.

Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by Chris2048 on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @05:45AM (#13529423)
Things like this reply on having the power to cause disruption by withdrawing service. In this case, there are a number of downsides:

- It also shows people/companies what a liability free drivers / unions are. Especially were there is a limit of available taxis (taxi badge).

- Individual taxis are being disrupted and facing competition from Lyft/Uber at the moment.

- the country is divided over support of Trump. Strikers may not be able to reply on a majority for support due to the political nature of the strike.

Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by kj01a on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @09:26AM (#13530748)
>This wasn't a strike, it was a political protest.

What's the difference??

Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by dvdhnt on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @09:33AM (#13530818)
I think we could all agree by calling it a work-stoppage. To me they're basically all the same but a strike is generally a work stoppage intended to force management to in some way improve the employment environment whereas a political protest can and usually is directed outwards and occurs for any number of reasons.
Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by kj01a on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @09:46AM (#13530929)
> a strike is generally a work stoppage intended to force management to in some way

This is also a political protest. Just because it's not against the U.S. government doesn't make it less so.

Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by leereeves on Wednesday February 01, 2017 @03:34AM (#13539292)
There's nothing political about a contractual dispute between two private parties.
Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by kj01a on Wednesday February 01, 2017 @09:10AM (#13540775)
Yes, there is.
Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by Iv on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @04:22AM (#13529021)
> This is like if Coca Cola workers went on strike, and problem blamed Pespi Co of breaking strike by not sending their workers home??

Well, yes, that's how a general strike works. You expect every worker in the field to follow. This is not a strike to get better conditions within one company, this is a strike toward a governmental action.

Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by rubber_duck on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @04:39AM (#13529117)
>Well, yes, that's how a general strike works.

You mean how it doesn't work. Cartels eventually fall apart when there's no way of enforcing the rules (no way to force someone to strike) because the incentives to cheat (drive during strike) are high.

Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by jellicle on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @10:15AM (#13531182)
Well, at least in the U.S., general strikes worked great and were so effective for labor that they were banned by law, and remain illegal today.
Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by toomuchtodo on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @08:28AM (#13530323)
I suppose someone could've DDOSd Uber's API to force their hand instead of relying on Travis' navigation of the political waters and moral fortitude (hah!).
Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by Iv on Wednesday February 01, 2017 @10:48AM (#13541568)
Successful general strikes (a longer list than many people believe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_strike#Notable_general...) usually enforce it somehow. Possibly through illegal means.
Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by icebraining on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @04:58AM (#13529207)
You expect workers to follow, not their companies to order them!
Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by kristopolous on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @04:18AM (#13529004)
People appear to expect companies to take stances and play politics. It's an important observation and should be exploited for business leveraging. This is how namecheap gained market traction - they took heavy handed anti-godaddy stances during the SOPA debate and it worked hugely in their favor.

The other observation is that if your market position has a lot to do with inertia and habit - as in, if many people are using you mostly because they used you the last time, your position is tenuous.

And lastly, this may be a good example of aggregate forms of capital cost. The idea is that every exchange involves not only financial capital (money) but social and spiritual (what one thinks of themselves) capital. Your competitors can increase this aggregate cost and you can modify it without consciously being aware.

Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by fennecfoxen on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @04:26AM (#13529053)
> I would never expect them to participate in a strike and effectively order their drivers to stop working.

Doubly so since half of their business model's premise is that Uber drivers are not employees, independent contractors who bring their own equipment, set their own hours, and pick up the fares that they feel like. They officially only boss the drivers around once they've picked up the fare.

Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by jpatokal on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @05:13AM (#13529258)
Oh no, Uber is a "ride-sharing platform", so it doesn't have any "drivers", only "partners". If these "partners", being the perfectly free agents that they are, wish to participate in any form of action, they can do so on their own.
Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by robert_foss on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @09:24AM (#13530728)
No company can be expected to behave morally? Is that what you are arguing?
Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by mikeash on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @09:36AM (#13530840)
Is it immoral not to participate in a strike organized by people you have no connection to, who work for different people, and who never consulted me?

If I was going to work and some strangers told me not to because they were on strike, I'd tell them to get lost.

Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by Bartweiss on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @09:47AM (#13530941)
Broadly speaking, I hate the tendency to conflate "we expect you to hold this view" with "we expect you to take this action". There are some views that I think it's genuinely reasonable to expect of people, but claiming that those views create a right to redirect people's time and money to your tactics is a way higher bar to clear.

Uber took steps to help their affected drivers, and stated intent to raise the issue at meetings with Trump. They decided not to engage in the strike along with the taxi drivers. Somehow, what looks to me like a tactical disagreement got recast as proof that Uber doesn't care about immigrants.

Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by dvdhnt on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @09:30AM (#13530790)
Actually, no they cannot. It has been proven time and time again that most companies will behave only in ways that benefit its stakeholders. Sometimes, that happens to align with public or moral good. However, our only expectation should be that companies make decisions and take actions within the parameters prescribed by regulators. Anything they do beyond that is either a violation, and should be punished, or a secondary, unexpected benefit.
Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by enraged_camel on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @09:37AM (#13530847)
>>Actually, no they cannot. It has been proven time and time again that most companies will behave only in ways that benefit its stakeholders.

I don't think anyone can reasonably argue that the current situation is benefiting Uber's shareholders.

The point being that by breaking the strike, Uber made a terrible business decision. They massively underestimated the backlash they would get. Now they have a (yet another) PR nightmare in their hands.

Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by dvdhnt on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @10:03AM (#13531064)
That's fair, and I certainly wasn't trying to analyze the business implications of Uber's maneuvering, simply that any decision made is 'usually' motivated by how it benefits a company's stakeholders.
Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by robert_foss on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @09:35AM (#13530831)
I would agree that this seems to be the case almost always, but should it have to be that way?

Why can't public interest be aligned with the profit motive more often?

To some extent this is already the case, you don't see Dow Chemical grinding up children and selling them as couch stuffing, although sometimes they're not very far from that mark.

Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by dvdhnt on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @10:00AM (#13531032)
Right, I mean that's a separate debate, one that requires a lot of introspection re: capitalism, etc. I'm just answering your previous question; that no, we can't expect them to behave morally. However, to continue with your second comment, we're getting closer to the cause of the symptom.

I saw a headline on HN that said "why always outlasts how" and I believe this to be intrinsic. If we should encourage companies to behave in ways more closely aligned with the public interest, fine. Now, how do we do that? So far, it has been done through varying degrees of regulation and the court of public opinion, but those often fail.

To answer your question - "Why can't public interest be aligned with the profit motive more often?" - because we lack a better how for the time being.

Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by ggggtez on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @03:48AM (#13528848)
They are a company, sure. But the citizens vote with their wallets, and are clearly making a choice for the type of company they prefer. Maybe that means most people in New York prefer a company which cooperates with their local unions.
Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by leereeves on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @04:15AM (#13528994)
Did Lyft cooperate with their local unions?
Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by kj01a on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @09:25AM (#13530743)
Here is the letter they wrote for their blog:

>We created Lyft to be a model for the type of community we want our world to be: diverse, inclusive, and safe.

>This weekend, Trump closed the country's borders to refugees, immigrants, and even documented residents from around the world based on their country of origin. Banning people of a particular faith or creed, race or identity, sexuality or ethnicity, from entering the U.S. is antithetical to both Lyft's and our nation's core values. We stand firmly against these actions, and will not be silent on issues that threaten the values of our community.

>We know this directly impacts many of our community members, their families, and friends. We stand with you, and are donating $1,000,000 over the next four years to the ACLU to defend our constitution. We ask that you continue to be there for each other - and together, continue proving the power of community.

I notice that it diplomatically does not answer your question, only that it will donate for the cause. So I guess it depends on what you mean by "cooperate." They certainly didn't order their workers to strike (which would be dumb of them anyway.)

Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by alphonsegaston on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @09:49AM (#13530954)
No they scabbed as well, but we're just better with PR. We've been so inculcated with Neoliberalism that switching to a more successfully deceptive brand is now seen as protest.
Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by rmc on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @09:46AM (#13530922)
OK, they are a company. And a company has no right to customers. Sorry, that's business, that's capitalism, that's the market.
Re:Lyft surges to the top 10 on App Store following the “Del... by gumby on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @11:47AM (#13532304)
> This is like if Coca Cola workers went on strike, and problem blamed Pespi Co of breaking strike by not sending their workers home??

Consumers could still vote with their dollars, as they should. If you think Uber did nothing wrong then feel free to continue using them.