News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by GuiA on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @01:09AM (#13227129)
Clearly, people love these things. I have a few friends who own it and say it's an amazing product; and commenters on HN have expressed their enthusiasm for it as well.

There is a question that's been bothering me for years now, to which I still don't have an answer, which is: does modern technology suck just for me, or am I just less tolerant of defects than most people are?

I am currently typing this from a 2016 macbook that for some reason won't keep disconnecting from my WiFi router. Last week, iOS decided to randomly delete all of my saved locations in the Maps app. I've never had stable, fast internet anywhere I've lived in the US in the past 8 years - every few days or so, shit just doesn't work for a bit. I've owned things like a Nest or Philips Hue in the past, and they randomly reset to factory mode or desync'd from my phone . Half the time I try to play my PS4, some stupid patch fails to download, or PSN is down, etc.

The more things like the Amazon Echo I would have in my house, the more irritating my daily life would be - because I don't want to deal with the 5% of the time where I have to repeat my request 5 times for it to tell me the weather, or the connection to the Amazon server is lost and I can't play any music. This 5% of the time across dozens of devices results in being annoyed 100% of the time.

All of this is why I mainly use a record player to listen to music at home (no DRM, no problem with servers being down or albums removed remotely), really like my GameCube for video games (put a disk in and play, no patches to download), still exclusively buy paper books, am fine with dumb light switches, and so on.

If you think this entire thing is ridiculous, I fully agree - I make my living contributing to this industry! But either people are living through these same annoyances as I am and they're fine with it (in which case please teach me your secrets), or somehow I'm getting a worse experience with technology than 99.9% of the population (I guess statistically such a person must exist, and it is me).

Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by wildmusings on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @01:27AM (#13227199)
You're not alone kindred spirit. Everything sucks and they keep inventing new ways for things to suck. Bluetooth devices randomly won't sync, internet randomly goes down for a few hours a week, console always needs to download a multi-GB update when I just want to watch a youtube video, OS install starts acting up after a couple of months, Siri goes into an infinite loop repeatedly confirming my new alarm, I switch to FM/AM with a button on my car center console but to bluetooth/usb audio with a button between the seats (wtf MINI?). There's still no single way for me to get all of my content onto my TV/speakers, only different subsets with Airplay, Bluetooth, Chromecast, and my XBox. Oh, and NEVER NEVER NEVER press cancel on a progress dialog; that's the doorway to the Twilight Zone.

On the other hand: I pay $10 a month for unlimited music, $8 for tons of movies and tv shows, I get most of the stuff I buy in the mail in two days, Google Maps can navigate me anywhere, and I do all of my trading instantly online with low fees.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by new299 on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @01:19AM (#13227164)
A lot of technology is pretty flaky. I think you have a couple of issues however:

1. You have sucky Internet. Bad Internet is going to cause numerous issues. From what I've heard it's hard to get a really good Internet connection in the US. But in many places in the world, great Internet connections are available at low cost.

Bad Internet means devices are going to have issues with firmware updates. Things will be more flaky in general, data will be lost part way through transfer and you'll hit issues with devices not robust to this more often.

2. There's no reason why your macbook should keep disconnecting from Wifi. Perhaps you live somewhere with a lot of RF noise? Or you have a cheap/crappy router? Again, this is an issue which many people don't face. Mostly Wifi just works.

Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by croon on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @04:16AM (#13227808)
> 2. There's no reason why your macbook should keep disconnecting from Wifi. Perhaps you live somewhere with a lot of RF noise? Or you have a cheap/crappy router? Again, this is an issue which many people don't face. Mostly Wifi just works.

I've went through tons of routers, and on those routers all available firmwares (dd-wrt. open-wrt, tomato, etc).

I've been using an Asus RT-AC87U for the last couple of years now, on Merlins firmware (slightly altered stock). I want to say it's great, but really it's just the least sucky router [0] I've had.

Wifi has never mostly worked. At least I've never experienced it. With a wifi dongle on my desktop PC I could go for a few weeks without issue, but I often find at least one (random) phone to be disconnecting at times when I'm trying to access something locally on my network. I never have to reboot the router at least, but have to manually reconnect devices when issues occur, and of course it breaks any connections I had.

I installed a wired network in our house just this week, for the devices I care about the most.

I have never been on or even heard of a wifi network that always works. I imagine that any such suggestion is a statement of minimizing the time when it fails, which is great, but it has never been on par with wired in reliability. I would be very happy if it did, but I won't hold my breath.

[0] Nitpick: We're talking about the AP part of the router, the router part is quite stable and I've had no wired issues.

Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by matwood on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @08:08AM (#13228770)
> I have never been on or even heard of a wifi network that always works.

Years ago I had this problem and bought an Apple router. My wifi has always 'just worked' ever since. There was an entire thread of people on here on HN saying the same thing when Apple decided to stop making them. Wifi, like cell, is very anecdotal because of things out of your control.

Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by gruturo on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @08:28AM (#13228880)
Similar experience with Apple access points. After getting fed up with crappy gear which needed a daily restart, had awful range, overheated despite proper ventilation, would in theory allow simultaneous dual band but in practice really didn't, etc etc etc I bought a Time Capsule (the Airport Extreme with built-in hard disk) around 5 years ago and couldn't be happier. The connection has always been absolutely rock solid. My only complaint is that the client app got dumbed down more and more, down to a level I found really irritating.

It's a real shame they decided to discontinue them - they were absolutely the single consumer brand which didn't plain suck in my experience. Awful experience with Asus (overheating), Netgear (5 disconnects per hour), Cisco/Linksys (radio part died after a firmware upgrade, long fight to RMA a 3 days old unit), D-link (signal wouldn't cross a single wall), etc.

Fortunately I recently decided to look past the consumer products and discovered Ubiquiti. What a breath of fresh air. Amazing performance and range, all the stability of Apple without the Fisher-Price interface.

Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by L_Rahman on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @11:32AM (#13230375)
It's shocking just how good the Ubiquiti gear is.

My setup at home is:

Motorola Surfboard SB6183

Ubiquiti EdgeRouter X

Uniquiti Unifi AP

I set it up once and the only outages I've had were when my provider (Time Warner in NYC) had issues that made the Surfboard loose connectivity. Despite the fact that I'm in an incredibly noisy RF environment, I've never had trouble connecting to my AP.

If had spare time and money, this is a business I'd try:

- partner with Ubiquiti to white label their gear

- build an app to make the APs easy to setup

- work hard to become the Wirecutter's top pick

- sell them on Amazon

Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by croon on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @09:10AM (#13229164)
I've had Apple routers as well. While above average, and not requiring restarts, it wasn't better than other premium (consumer grade) routers I've had. Of course, anecdata, but just for clarification:

Are you saying you never have any wifi issues? Even every other month?

I think the OP question touched on problems existing, but small enough for many to "accept them" as status quo, and him/her questioning if he/she was the only one bothered by them. I am one of those people too. Thus my question of whether or not you actually have no problems, or simply "no problems requiring intervention, other than waiting/reconnecting".

Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by criddell on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @11:21AM (#13230251)
We have a decent wifi router and it's been running for over a year now with no issues.

Our internet has gone down (Uverse fiber), but that's outside of our home and there's little we can do about it.

My phone - a Nexus 5X - is probably the flakiest bit of tech that I have. I reboot it every 10 days or so. The next worst is the AT&T DVRs. They are terribly designed, painful to use, and have bugs.

Most of the tech in my house (Canon printer, QNAP raid box, Hikvision cameras, PS4, Roku, Wii-U, Onkyo receiver, Samsung and Toshiba televisions, iPads, iPhones, Samsung Tablet, Thinkpad, MacBook, gaming PC, Kindles, etc...) have basically no recurring problems. We've had brown outs where the power goes down but not off that made me have to go reboot everything, but other than that, no real problems. Our VitaMix blender does blow one breaker, but that's not really a tech issue.

Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by matwood on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @09:52AM (#13229531)
> Are you saying you never have any wifi issues? Even every other month?

Correct. It just works. The base station I have is also really old at this point. It is the larger flat one without simultaneous 5g bought ~2008. I bought it after I went through some of the other cheaper options that would cause my VPN to drop randomly throughout the day.

I want to upgrade to something with the newer standards and more speed, but I'm worried about going back to an unstable connection. I've been thinking about either the Netgear R6400 or the Google wifi 3 pack.

Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by untog on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @09:50AM (#13229508)
FWIW, I switched from an Apple router to a Google OnHub one, and it also works absolutely seamlessly. Tried a cheaper Netgear one inbetween and it was a nightmare. Sometimes it's better to just pay a little bit more money.
Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by ajford on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @12:00PM (#13230640)
Check out Ubiquiti gear. I've been wanting to upgrade to their Unifi line, but haven't convinced the spouse that I need the money when it "works" to her. The random drop-outs don't bug you when you aren't constantly SSHed into something, and the bursty speeds aren't bad when you aren't moving files to and fro on the internal network. :(

There was a cool blog recently on HN about switching to Ubiquiti HW: https://www.troyhunt.com/ubiquiti-all-the-things-how-i-final...

Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by bcook on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @07:07AM (#13228477)
Yeah, the RT-AC87U is known to have a buggy Quantenna WiFi chip, especially the 5ghz. There are many reports of problems over on snbforums.

The RT-AC68U or RT-AC88U are better choices (because they use Broadcom?). My RT-N66U has been a flawless AP for years.

Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by croon on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @09:12AM (#13229179)
Interesting, I'll have to investigate this, I've had other Asus in the past, but not those two versions. I'll have to check the chips on the ones I've had.

Thank you for the tip!

Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by Declanomous on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @09:43AM (#13229446)
You might also be interested in the Ubiquiti Unifi WiFi APs. They are access points, so you still need a router and a switch. I got a Unifi AP AC Lite recently, and it's probably the best AP I've ever used, behind perhaps only the Apple ones.
Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by coldtea on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @07:13AM (#13228500)
>I have never been on or even heard of a wifi network that always works.

Well, I work from home, and my wi-fi network (different routers across several homes, mostly Mac clients) has always worked.

The only thing that had issues was the DSL connection crapping out (usually once per 2 weeks or so) and having to restart the router to re-sync.

But no wi-fi issues, or machines disconnecting etc.

That said I always lived in single floor apartments (but with concrete walls). So I never had to try to e.g. bring wifi to the basement or so.

Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by therein on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @05:25AM (#13228075)
I have the same router with the same firmware. I'm using a mid-2014 MBP Retina and my Echo Dot works great along with all my wireless devices both in 2.4G and 5G. My setup is basically Internet -> pfSense -> RT-AC87U with Webpass. Over 5G, I get 250+ mbit.
Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by croon on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @06:20AM (#13228296)
Oh, yes, the wireless performance I get is great, it's the reliability I take issue with. You never get any disconnects or hickups?
Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by nicolas_t on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @06:34AM (#13228362)
I have the exact same router (with Merlins firmware) and never get any disconnects and I have a lot of devices (mbp, macbook air, macbook, iphones, android tablet and ipad).

Do you live in an area with a lot of RF noise? or with a lot of other Wifi networks? I've stayed for a month in New York last year at a place with a lot of other wifi networks and my Macbooks became much more flaky when connecting to wifi.

Maybe you can try changing the wifi channel?

But I can say that having an internet connection that's not great definitely creates a lot of problem and additional frustration. I was way more frustrated when I stayed that month in New York (for some reason the internet connection had intermittent packet loss), I'm really quite surprised at how bad internet connections are in the US.

Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by croon on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @09:17AM (#13229226)
A house in suburbia. I can see maybe 5, possibly 10 networks tops, with a good client. I'd categorize that as "not a lot of noise", at least not from other WLANs.

I've tried different channels, but is that suggestion in regards to the signal (which is not a problem for me) or for its effect on reliability of keeping the connection?

Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by therein on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @11:25PM (#13234795)
No disconnects at all. I don't reboot the router often at all either. In fact I realized I probably should reboot one after realizing some issues with the onboard RAM and the uptime was over 3 months at that point.

I'm in the San Francisco area so you'd think RF noise would be pretty heavily present here. Before this I had the TP-Link AC1200 and I had all the issues you mentioned with that.

Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by SnacksOnAPlane on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @10:32AM (#13229841)
ASUS RT-N66U FTW. It's not cheap, but the damn thing is pretty much perfect.
Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by fps on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @08:34AM (#13228917)
Making wireless work isn't a matter of throwing money at the problem and buying off the shelf products, unfortunately. Nor is it a binary "works" vs. "doesn't work." I want to say I have "flawless" wifi at my house, but in reality I've looked at the use cases of all of my regular users and optimized the wireless network to be reliable and performant for those uses. This includes:

a dedicated network router and dedicated access points. The placement of the access points is key. They should be in the dead center of the area they're meant to cover and not be near any radio absorbing materials. You pretty much can't do that if you have to put your access point at the place where your internet comes into your house. I use Ubiquiti Edgerouter and AP equipment[0]. I had to wire cat6 between my basement and my entryway closet to get good placement of my access points.

testing and optimizing frequencies for the environment. I live out in the suburbs, but I still have to contend with my neighbor's RF noise. I use a tool for MacOS called Wifi Signal [1] that identifies clear channels and regularly suggests improvements.

Understanding the differences in the technologies available. I have a large house, and lots of high bandwidth equipment, as well as some low bandwidth equipment. The low bandwidth equipment (eg. Nest thermostats, raspberry pi garage door controllers) stays on the slower, longer range 2.4 ghz access point and I don't have to particularly care about placement. The high bandwidth equipment (laptops, desktops, set top box) is set to prefer the high bandwidth short range 5ghz network, and I placed my access points close to their points of use. Equipment like phones and laptops that move around are set to prefer the 5ghz network, but accept the 2.4 ghz network when they're too far from the access points. Newer access points allow you to specify minimum signal qualities to encourage clients to switch networks sooner when their signal quality drops too far to be useful.

I put a lot of effort and more money than normal into this solution, but the result is that my family generally doesn't notice the network. It just works, all the time. When we visit other people's houses, the wireless is bad and that's just something that is weird about other places. I want to say guests in my house get good wireless coverage, but if they do something with their devices that my family doesn't (like try to stream movies from a hammock in the back yard), or get on the "wrong" network, I can't guarantee much.

0: https://www.ubnt.com/unifi/unifi-ac/ 1: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/wifi-signal/id525912054?mt=1...

Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by croon on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @09:27AM (#13229312)
A lot of good points here. But your opening statement...

> Making wireless work isn't a matter of throwing money at the problem and buying off the shelf products, unfortunately. Nor is it a binary "works" vs. "doesn't work." I want to say I have "flawless" wifi at my house, but in reality I've looked at the use cases of all of my regular users and optimized the wireless network to be reliable and performant for those uses.

... I think fits with the question the OP asked, and my follow up to. Since it's not a binary, and people have different levels of acceptance, and different levels of work put in to getting that number closer to 1 than 0, that is my issue. A stable router and wired devices "just works" for at least the last couple of decades.

I can likely get a better WLAN than the one I have, but I have already put in more time than I'd like to. At this point if I can't throw money at it, I'll rather just throw money at installing cat6a, which I did for the stuff I cared about (desktop, htpc, server).

> I put a lot of effort and more money than normal into this solution, but the result is that my family generally doesn't notice the network. It just works, all the time.

Contradicting as it is to your first statement, do you really mean this though? Or is it simply "works well enough, within reasonable efforts, means and expectations"?

Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by fps on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @09:47AM (#13229488)
Regarding the first and last statements contradicting, I mean that when my family uses the network in the ways I have anticipated and built around, it works consistently and without interruption. This is different than saying it just works for everyone and anything they want to do. I think "just works for everyone doing anything" is what people want, and expect when they spend hundreds of dollars on a product, but I don't believe that's possible when you're dealing with the current state of the art in computer wireless networks. You need to take into account the environment and the requirements.
Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by fps on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @09:51AM (#13229527)
Also, yes, replacing wireless links with cat6 where possible is certainly the more reliable solution. Fixed location high bandwidth devices shouldn't be using wireless if it can be avoided at all.
Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by microcolonel on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @01:24AM (#13227187)
I've had considerable problems between MacBook Pros and Airport Extremes in both noisy and extremely radio-quiet locations.

I'm not shocked if somebody drops $3,000+ on a MBP, and can't reliably connect to an AP from the same vendor, let alone any other vendor.

Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by jsz0 on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @02:57AM (#13227540)
That's quite unusual in my experience. Even most low end / lost cost routers are pretty damn reliable these days. In an office complex with more than a dozen competing networks I use wifi 8 hours a day and rarely have a blip. Have you by any chance being moving one of the same wifi devices between all the different places you've had problems? Another thing, which wouldn't explain all the different locations, is a problem with your electrical wiring / loading. For example I used to have a Dell ethernet switch that would reliably reboot itself whenever other devices it shared a power strip with were under a heavy load. I could actually force reboot it by starting a dd between the right combination of disks in a server. I guess that does technically qualify as out of band management.
Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by thaumaturgy on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @03:58AM (#13227756)
fwiw, I own/sort-of-run an MSP/break-fix shop, and we see a lot of this sort of thing. People only ever call us when something's busted, so it distorts our perception of the reliability of technology, but we literally spend all day, every day troubleshooting technical issues.

For routers specifically, people are going to have a wide range of experiences depending on the brand (and sometimes model) they purchased. They all have their own quirks. D-Link tends to experience intermittent packet loss, Netgear has sudden intermittent loss of radio signal, ASUS routers just simply stop routing packets every few weeks or so. For off-the-shelf, we tend to see the fewest complaints from Linksys wireless devices, but their wired devices are pretty unreliable.

Engenius, which you'll see in a lot of commercial deployments, are over-priced and the radios in them just give up and go home after about a year or so.

This is one of my favorite soapboxes, so I gotta be careful not to get carried away, but I really sympathize with the GP upthread. Mail software, iOS, MacOS, Windows of course, networking, printers, phone systems, camera systems, databases, the whole kit & kaboodle is full of infuriating behavior and it keeps getting harder and harder to diagnose, since nobody believes in ugly things like log files or serviceable hardware anymore.

I'm currently in the process of selling my break-fix business, because it's an infinite suck-hole that's stupidly difficult to make money on, and moving full-time to software development where I can at least close a bug report once in a while.

Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by jyrkesh on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @04:16AM (#13227806)
I don't have any professional experience diagnosing problems like this, but I've managed more than a few large-ish home networks (many roommates, large family w/ a ton of devices, etc.) in sprawling houses with thick foundations all the way to signal-dense apartment buildings where 2.4GHz is all but useless.

I personally cannot believe how terrible consumer-grade WiFi has stayed. You'd think that some of these manufacturers would be upping their QC at some point: I've experienced all the random undiagnosable problems you've described where nothing short of rebooting the router fixes things, and only until things break again later. I currently own one of those fancy Netgear Nighthawk routers and after months of going through PCI-Express cards on my desktop machine where random packet loss made gaming impossible (but not on any other devices even in the same room), I finally gave up and bought a 100ft cable off of Monoprice and ran it over some doorframes with tape.

I see a lot of buzz around all this "pro-sumer" mesh network gear[1], but I haven't had the kind of sprawling living situation that justifies it yet. (Though I did just recommend that article to a coworker on a very large property, and he's hoping it fixes his many, many problems.)

> it keeps getting harder and harder to diagnose, since nobody believes in ugly things like log files or serviceable hardware anymore.

Hear hear. To OP's original point, I can't believe how much stuff simply doesn't work like it's supposed to. I always thought it was my high-tech demands for plugging together services/software that weren't necessarily built for each other (e.g. Google Music on a Roku, or Snapchat on an Android phone), but after going home last Thanksgiving, it's unbelievable to me how many mainline iOS scenarios are completely broken. Every conversation I had with relatives was "oh yeah, that's easy to fix...lemme see...wait, what?...that doesn't make any sense...google-fu...huh, I guess there's some random problems with this...let's try deleting/re-adding your account...okay, that didn't do anything...wtf..." Throw in some "you got your iCloud password wrong twice and now we're locked out, time to go through insane account recovery", and I was ready to move to the woods and give up technology forever.

> moving full-time to software development where I can at least close a bug report once in a while.

Hahaha, grass is greener, man. Be prepared to be not fixing A LOT more bugs. ;)

[1] http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-wi-fi-mesh-networking-...

Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by ianlevesque on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @01:59AM (#13227321)
Not a panacea but for me using exclusively 5 GHz fixed wifi once and for all.
Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by manarth on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @04:16AM (#13227810)
To offer a contradictory piece of anecdata, I had to disable 5GHz to maintain a consistent wifi connection.
Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by ianlevesque on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @08:58AM (#13229098)
Isn't technology fun?
Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by pawadu on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @04:00AM (#13227762)
my co-worker has an apple wireless keyboard at work (BYOD). if he moves it more than two inches it will disconnect from his MBP (also BYOD). _very_ annoying when I need to type something for him...

I personally think someone has put an apple-curse on him, he blames it on cheap batteries.

Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by realstuff on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @02:12AM (#13227369)
Why you're not shocked?
Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by MagnumOpus on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @03:31AM (#13227651)
Because he had "considerable problems" with his Apple products? Basically Apple release unfinished product and let users test it - and it shows in the software quality.

(Don't even ask about the quality of any of their "1.0" products - full of bugs every time, newest example is the touch bar.)

Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by wyldfire on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @11:45AM (#13230510)
I love solving problems like this at work.

I hate solving problems like this at home. Part of the challenge is that I don't have the same resources, though.

> Perhaps you live somewhere with a lot of RF noise?

I hate this X-factor of WiFi with a passion. It's something that legitimately can vary in the time domain, either periodic or aperiodic. I have no good way to rule it out.

I have started using home powerline adapters and found them to be effective and reliable high throughput, low-latency connections to the smart TV/set top devices in my home.

Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by stonecodegump on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @04:33AM (#13227873)
My macbook disconnects from wifi once per day, quite consistently. I'm just used to it now, and reconnect and within a minute or so I am good to go again.
Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by twothamendment on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @11:31AM (#13230363)
Things like that are why I wired network to all the important places - like my desk. I work from home. I don't want to think about wifi issues. I think I'd have to spend quite a bit to get wifi that was as solid as being on the wire - and that just isn't worth it to me. I never trust wifi to work, but that said I do have an Echo on each floor of my house and they are wifi only. Once in a while I notice they are spinning blue while they reconnect, but I don't know the last time that it didn't work when I tried to use it.
Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by lostboys67 on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @04:45AM (#13227914)
Its probably that the OP has wifi problems possibly very crowded spectrum or they haven't got wifi set up properly and apple is known for being a bit hit and miss with wifi.
Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by yeukhon on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @12:23PM (#13230825)
I recommend if you have a choice get yourself your own modem. Switching to my own Motorola SB6141 was the best investment besides getting a decent router. Just a thought.
Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by tclancy on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @10:16AM (#13229730)
Another kindred spirit here, another programmer who can't tell if they're just getting old or if electronic devices are getting worse. I describe each of our AppleTVs as "something that works perfectly, except when you really need it"-- when we finally have time to watch a movie we want to see, when our daughter is losing her mind about wanting to see some video, that's the only time it craps itself.

>2016 macbook that for some reason won't keep disconnecting from my WiFi router

I have had two different Macs that did this. I did a ton of research (those 5-10(!) year-old bookmarks in Pinboard are unsurprisingly dead) and found certain wifi chipsets had problems (which is why other people with the same model as you will say they've never had a problem). That said, when we moved into our new house a year ago I had to buy a new router and add an access point because of the step up in square footage and I haven't had a problem since.

Of course, that new router was one of the Netgear ones with the giant security hole that was revealed a couple of weeks ago . . .

Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by turar on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @12:10PM (#13230716)
That's my Google Maps traffic experience pretty much daily. The section of the map that I actually need NOW is all of a sudden not rendering exactly when I need it, but hey here's traffic for the rest of the city.
Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by ajford on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @11:56AM (#13230607)
Have you considered upgrading your Wifi setup to something like Ubiquiti Unifi hardware? I'm trying to convince the spouse that I need ~1k$ upgrade our home network to Ubiquiti...

There's a blog post that was on HN a few days back about it: https://www.troyhunt.com/ubiquiti-all-the-things-how-i-final...

Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by r1ch on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @12:41PM (#13230980)
Consider going with Mikrotik gear instead. It's the same hardware, but you aren't locked into Ubiquiti's proprietary Java cloud management software - everything can be managed with SSH if you prefer. It isn't as user-friendly or as pretty as Ubiquiti's web interface, but you can get deep down into all kinds of internal settings and it also ends up being significantly cheaper.

For example, three dual band triple chain 802.11n/ac APs (https://routerboard.com/RBwAPG-5HacT2HnD) and a router (https://routerboard.com/RB750Gr3) have an MRSP of $330, including POE for the APs.

Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by lttlrck on Thursday December 22, 2016 @09:51AM (#13237551)
I have a Routerboard Hex and it's solid. It was a fiddle but I managed to get port isolation working so I could add a guest WLAN. This was more for 'fun' than any real need :-) A foundation in IP and routing is definitely beneficial for these devices. Due to its excellence I have been eyeing their Wifi solutions.
Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by ajford on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @05:53PM (#13233371)
Any good setup guides? One of the things I was hoping for was a good central management system, plus good roaming and handoff. I currently have two DD-WRT flashed ASUS routers, and having a hell of a time with handoff when going from one floor the the next.
Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by r1ch on Thursday December 22, 2016 @12:49PM (#13238930)
They have recently introduced centralized AP management called "Capsman" but it's still a little rough around the edges to set up. Their wiki has a lot of good info though, eg http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:CAPsMAN

Roaming is very tough to get right unfortunately. Only the client devices can make a decision to roam, so without ugly hacks such as using a single channel / MAC / SSID to create a giant interfering WLAN, your options are limited. What you can do with Mikrotik is set up access rules to kick a client off an AP if the signal strength falls below a threshold, but as this is not client-initiated, there is a longer re-association time which could interrupt VoIP etc.

Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by ajford on Thursday December 22, 2016 @01:01PM (#13239029)
So how do you handle roaming in your situation? Do you use different SSIDs between APs? Currently I have the same SSID shared between the two Asus routers (one configured as AP only).
Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by r1ch on Thursday December 22, 2016 @01:55PM (#13239439)
Right now my apartment is small enough that I only need a single AP, I have it wall mounted high up in a central location so it has good coverage of the whole building.

There are options such as 3rd party roaming clients for (eg https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.heleron.wi... for Android) which I'd consider. For laptops, most drivers have a "roaming aggressiveness" setting which can be tweaked. In general almost all devices should handle transient connectivity glitches fairly well, so kicking low signal clients off an AP shouldn't interrupt too much.

Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by dawnerd on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @12:25PM (#13230853)
Had this same issue. Appears to be more with whatever chip Apple uses not playing well with certain access points. I switched to ubiquiti APs and the problem went away.
Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by _greim_ on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @01:32AM (#13227214)
I've definitely noticed certain people seem to deal with more glitches and breakage than others. Not saying any of these are you, but here's some speculation as to why:

1. Some people customize more, so their setup tends to operate in ways that weren't as heavily tested, or anticipated by the makers.

2. Some people are more technologically fluent, and instinctively avoid common failure modes, and/or tend to get everything humming along with minimal effort.

3. Some people push their tech harder, or more thoughtlessly, like people who open ninety browser tabs, or are oblivious to the fact that their laptop fan runs constantly.

4. Some people like to have the bleeding edge latest tech, which has had less time for the kinks to work out.

Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by thaumaturgy on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @04:04AM (#13227774)
I'll add:

5. Some people are more bothered by little glitches.

This is me. I get irrationally furious when, oh, KDE decides one day to consume all available system memory and then hang and I have to ssh into my own laptop to reboot it. (It's an otherwise reliable, not heavily customized system, so not so much an example of #4.)

Meanwhile I see people walking around all the time with totally busted smartphone screens like it's no big deal. They just don't seem to mind very much if email stops working for a while or they have to reboot a computer or whatever.

Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by VLM on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @09:15AM (#13229209)
5. There is a social media effect where the planet has billions of people and every single person who has a problem, socially talks about it, much as some folk monday morning quarterback football games at the water cooler. This leads to horribly inflated perceptions.

As an analogy from another totally separate yet strangely parallel hobby, back when social networking meant ham radio morse code radios, I can personally assure you that every ham radio operator who can not solder a PL-259 RF connector, can not crimp an Anderson Powerpole DC connector, or can not solder surface mount components makes certain via social networking (over radios, back then) that everyone knows they can not, and that makes everyone think no one can perform those tasks because negative reports is all they hear endlessly repeated. However the reality is all those tasks are pretty easy and problems are rare and usually its possible to learn how to do it correctly with little time investment.

None the less, its a common "design pattern" of social media / networking that once the numerical problem count exceeds, say, the tribal count number around 100, the entire population no matter how many billions will all "know" that problem is universal for everyone, while perhaps they're the only person out of billions not experiencing the reported problem. Meanwhile the reality of the problem is there are (billions minus one hundred) experiencing total success.

I'm just saying its a social networking or social media problem, not a wifi problem.

Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by manarth on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @04:19AM (#13227816)
5. Some peoples' environment is innately hostile to tech. A modern flat with plasterboard partition walls will give better wifi reception than a victorian house with stone walls.
Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by pixard on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @01:48AM (#13227284)
I am not in the US, but I've also had many of the issues you describe. For me everything originated in the network equipment. I kept upgrading to more and more expensive routers until I came to the conclusion they are all just shit. I literally bought the best router you could buy from Asus for like $300 and I kept getting disconnects and issues many times a day. I tried the custom firmwares and what not as well, but I think it's all just so badly designed that there's no saving it.

I had a hunch that it must somehow be "me" and not my ISP, so I replace ALL of my network gear with Ubiquiti stuff. I got a UniFi USG (handles actual routing), UniFi Switch (US-8-150W), UniFi AP AC Pro (Wireless AP), CloudKey (runs the software that powers all this, but it's not strictly needed, you can run it on your PC/Mac as well just to setup things and it doesn't need to be running 100% of the time).

Since I've done this I've had ZERO disconnects. Not a single one. No WiFi problems either. I'm not sure if it would fix what you're experiencing, but I thought I'd share my experience.

Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by adinobro on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @02:45AM (#13227495)
It depends on where you are but if you are in a hot country you may have been able to fix your network issues with a $5 laptop cooler. A lot of the wireless routers do not have enough cooling for hot environments. My cheap hack that usually fixes problem is a cheap USB cooling mat that I put under the router and plug it into the USB port of the router. Almost always improves the reliability.
Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by ukyrgf on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @10:44AM (#13229938)
My wireless issues directly correlate to my power bill here in Florida. The more the AC runs, the more it overheats and fails me. It's smooth sailing once the temperature drops, though.
Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by Sanddancer on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @02:05AM (#13227338)
The Ubiquiti APs really are the key here. My household had the same problem with the various makes, models, etc until we switched there. For wifi, we use a mini-itx box running pfsense and it works fantastically. If you want reliability, you need to not use consumer gear, period, because it's all crap.
Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by Johnny555 on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @02:00PM (#13231663)
I think the problem with consumer Wifi routers is that they pack so many features in them (that few people need or use, but hey, if you're comparing specs and one router is also a USB print server and the other is not, you may as well get the one with the extra feature even if you'll never use it... just in case). All of those features lead to code bloat, bugs, and dilutes development resources so they spend less time on core Wifi functionality and more time on features that I'll never use -- I know I'll never use my Access point as a cloud storage server.

I've been much happier with my home worker after I traded in my all in one AP + Router/Firewall with a discrete firewall (pfSense) and Ubiquiti AP that's only an AP, nothing else.

Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by krisroadruck on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @01:45AM (#13227273)
You sound like my brother. I swear he emits a wifi-disruption field around his person. We can be in the same house connected to the same router and I'll have 180 days of perfect pings and no dropped packets and he'll get 10 connection issues in an hour. Doesn't matter which computer he uses or where he goes, always with the bad internet. Meanwhile the last time I can remember having serious wifi troubles was way back in 2005 when I had a crappy netgear router that had to be reset once a day or it'd go a little funky on me.
Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by rovek on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @09:33AM (#13229369)
This started a discussion in my office (software dev team). The summary is that I'm never satisfied with the quality of tech as paltry as smartphones but my colleague with a smart watch, smart TV and Alexa in his house views their defects as "quirks".

Seems to be a question of disposition, in my circles at least. There was a bonus anecdote about how Alexa has ignored his girlfriend for a year though.

Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by arjie on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @01:37AM (#13227239)
My desktop and console are wired and I have reliable 200 Mbit Internet. There are a few things my phone is very good at picking up and I use it for voice commands there. My friends have Echos and Dots and they're great! No one has to get up from the table to pick a song!

Man, my life is good. The secret? Get good Internet. Wire what you can. Get a damned good wifi router for the rest. Know your tools.

I buy paper books because they're much cheaper but take my Kindle when traveling.

Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by lmm on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @06:27AM (#13228322)
It's hard to compare objectively. I'm used to retrying or even working around some issues without consciously noticing (like the story of Turing's bicycle chain). I don't think my tech goes wrong very often - certainly not often enough to be worth putting up with the weight of paper books or the immense size and fragility of records. But sometimes that's because I'm working around it without noticing.
Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by madaxe_again on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @04:55AM (#13227943)
Technology used to be a product sold to consumers. Now consumers are sold through technology to data brokers. The priority changed, and you are no longer it.
Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by ThomPete on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @07:13AM (#13228499)
I don't think what you are doing is ridiculous at all, in fact I myself strive for that myself but in a different way.

The reason why many people love it (me and my family included) is that they don't think of it as technology but as a product.

In my family we are two grown ups, a 7 year old and a 3 year old. Google Home understand us all first time in most cases. The ones where it doesn't are so rare it's note even 5% of the time.

I look for technology which:

1) removes the layers of abstraction when it comes to interacting with it.

2) Helps with banale tasks such as weather (can't be underestimated, when you have kids), starting some random music (Play smooth jazz, play Pat Metheny, Play dance music), play latest episode of "Startups for the rest of us", play the news, timer when you cook, add things we need to buy, ask something we are unsure about.

3) Gives us back some of the tangibility of the physical products.

All these things can be done via your phone, but once you have a voice interface you realize how much faster and less intrusive it is.

These voice interfaces are not yet good enough for really detailed needs but for our mostly simple needs.

Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by m_mueller on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @01:21AM (#13227176)
I have similar experiences as you. I think it comes down to what is each persons' relative level of 'good enough' for each of the usecases. My 2013 Macbook and even more so my iPhone SE are 'good enough', and so far I haven't found anything else in their categories that can come up to that level. But when it comes to smart home or networking or car electronics or various other places where markets are still fragmented such that earnings per device are small to negative, it's clear that the simpler the better. There's just too many edgecases that engineers don't consider, but will annoy people like you and me tremendously.

This discussion also reminds me of this thread, see also my list of links there:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12333471

Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by semi-extrinsic on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @03:57AM (#13227747)
> But when it comes to smart home or networking or car electronics or various other places where markets are still fragmented such that earnings per device are small to negative, it's clear that the simpler the better.

It's not just about markets being small. Many times it's about designers pushing form over function, and people not realising what they're losing.

Take induction hobs, for instance. I had to go out of my way to get one with mechanical knobs, as opposed to touch controls, and it's such a huge UX improvement that I now feel handicapped in other people's kitchens. Yet I've had several friends and colleagues express genuine surprise that this is even possible; they've only ever seen induction hobs with touch, and thus assumed it's necessary to have touch on induction.

Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by m_mueller on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @04:05AM (#13227777)
Funny that you mention induction stoves - that's exactly what I was discussing among other things in above link. I hate those touch stoves with a passion. What were they thinking? It has one job!
Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by lmm on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @06:23AM (#13228305)
> I hate those touch stoves with a passion. What were they thinking? It has one job!

They're easier to clean. They look better. They're possibly cheaper.

Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by at-fates-hands on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @10:29AM (#13229814)
>> They're easier to clean. They look better. They're possibly cheaper.

You add supposedly safer as well. Since no heat is generated unless the pan is on the stove, it's safer for kids. Apparently the jury is still out on the technology since it uses electromagnetic currents:

Another Dangerous Cooking Appliance – Induction Stovetops - http://breastcancerconqueror.com/another-dangerous-cooking-a...

Health Issues with Induction Cooktops - http://www.livestrong.com/article/312052-health-issues-with-...

Is Induction Cooking Safe? - http://www.magdahavas.com/is-induction-cooking-safe/

Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by m_mueller on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @11:11AM (#13230171)
I have nothing against induction as a stove mechanism, just against the touch panels of recent ones.
Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by VLM on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @09:29AM (#13229328)
That's the problem, kitchens are trendy again, and looking good in "better homes and gardens" is always the death knell of usability.

If you want to cook, you'll have to take portable appliances onto the deck or into the basement because kitchens are solely about looking good now.

There are snarky analogies to web design in the above, BTW.

Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by balls187 on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @12:03PM (#13230667)
My biggest problem with the Echo is that if the volume is too loud, I have to shout at it.

Outside of that, big fan of it. Despite only using a few features.

I'm less bothered by flaws in implementation, and instead bothered by failing to live up to potential due to artificial limits.

For example, the original Xbox had Ethernet and a harddrive, but it's capabilities were completely hamstrung by the OS. It wasn't until the device was hacked did it really come into it's own (spawning XMBP=>XBMC=>(Kodi|Boxee|Plex|...).

I got the Echo when Amazon was offering it to select Prime members for $99, so I didn't have much expectations for it. I was happy that I could change the wake work (Because Alexa is the name of an ex-gf), and the kitchen timer, and news feature were more than enough for me.

Once they added Spotify integration, it was well worth the cost to me.

Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by nkrisc on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @10:46AM (#13229961)
I know exactly how you feel.

We used to use my Xbox One to watch DVDs and such. Oh, but since I don't play it that often when we settle down to watch the movie: 30 minute download and update. Movie night ruined.

I finally bought an old, dumb DVD player that first came out in 2005. We're much happier with that.

Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by zodiac on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @02:51AM (#13227519)
> does modern technology suck just for me

To try to counter potential selection bias I'll give my boring answer: I would be really pissed if those things kept happening to me, so you're not particularly intolerant, but they don't. I get hard to fix wifi problems maybe once a year.

Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by drvdevd on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @08:46AM (#13228994)
Some personal anecdata for you:

1) Q4 2015 MBP, top of the line - kernel thread crash on suspend, causing it to wake back up. Semi-random, kinda interesting except when it woke up in my bag and seemed to almost catch on fire ... repeatedly. People told me to take it to the Genius Bar .. I seriously doubted they could figure the issue out. It would've been a back to the factory situation (I sold it -- after verifying the hardware was still good of course).

2) Sometime in 2014-ish? I change the wireless bandwidth on a ubiquiti router at the office -- all the Macs go offline, Linux machines do not. Suggesting a bug in WiFi. This is not unusual for WiFi on any device (not just macs) in my experience. I disagree with the idea that it Just Works generally.

3) Macbook Pro 2013 - enabling IPv6 stack causes kernel crash when trying to disable.

4) and to make it clear I'm not just picking on Apple: Sony PS4 with a dual band 802.11a/b/g/n wireless router -- constantly drops connection. Figured out it was because of the 5GHz band. Had to set up a separate wireless network just for PS4 with an older router. Sony should put up some time and money to help fix these driver issues instead of leaving it entirely on BSD volunteers (assuming they're not using a custom driver, in which case they should, you know, fix it).

5) Making PSN a requirement was a terrible decision for the PS4: lizard squad DDoS the day after I got it. Updates kicking me out of PSN. Unable to log back in, etc. I will never buy another console gaming system with this requirement, if I can avoid it. If I can't I will do serious research first.

This is why I'm back to homebrewing/hacking hardware and putting Linux/BSD on all my stuff ... at least I then have a clue of how to debug this kind of weird shit, even if it is a PITA, and at least if things don't work, I can blame myself, rather than having to say I paid for it. Certainly no sense paying for premium consumer stuff either, even if you have the money. Spend it on something else.

No it's not just you.

Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by vlunkr on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @01:42AM (#13227261)
Living in a house with no great internet options for a couple of years kind of cured me of my impatience with technology. I have co-workers who get ticked off immediately if the internet is out for more than a minute and get Comcast on the phone. I think it's good to lower your expectations with technology a bit. You really can live without internet or Bluetooth connectivity for a few minutes.

But I'm also in the same boat with using older "dumb" tech. People can't believe I buy cd's still, but hey, you can get nearly anything used on amazon for a few bucks and it's DRM free!

Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by GuiA on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @01:49AM (#13227289)
> I think it's good to lower your expectations with technology a bit. You really can live without internet or Bluetooth connectivity for a few minutes.

I just get annoyed if something that would work instantly otherwise doesn't work at all. Say I want to put on music while cooking - putting on a record or CD would take 5 seconds, and work 100% of the time. But if Spotify is down, or asks me to update my password, or has removed the album I've played every week for the past year from their library, or I have to re-sync my bluetooth speaker, etc., then now I'm dealing with this instead of getting on with my cooking.

Whether this expectation is unreasonable or not is clearly a personal matter, but for me it seems like a pretty basic thing to demand from the objects I own.

Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by icebraining on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @02:50AM (#13227510)
putting on a record or CD would take 5 seconds, and work 100% of the time

That's not my experience at all; the damn scratches in CDs made me switch to an MP3 player as soon as I could afford one, back in the early 2000s.

Streaming audio is still shitty, that's true, but MPD reading off of a local disk actually works reliably.

Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by cyxxon on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @04:43AM (#13227903)
In addition to that the 5 seconds seems really low. I own around a thousand CDs, I guess, and can guess where each is sitting in my shelf, but I would have to go to the shelf, scroll along it a bit to pick the correct album, get it out, go to the player, take out the old disc, put that in its tray, put in the new disc, hope it is not scratched or otherwise damaged (I have discs where the simply information-carrying layer simply disintegrated behind the coating), and carry the old disc to the shelf and sort it in. Oh, and when I am done in the kitchen I now want to continue the music in the living room, so... I don't know? Since I got Sonos I just search for the album, doubleclick it, and group the speakers. I also use a local library on a NAS in addition to GPM, so it works without internet.
Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by vacri on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @02:22AM (#13227407)
> if the internet is out for more than a minute and get Comcast on the phone

I love those people who choose to purchase the bottom-tier internet, and then bitterly complain about how terrible the customer service is. "So open your wallet and get an ISP with good customer service" -> cue look of hate from them.

Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by daphreak on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @04:42AM (#13227898)
Unfortunately not all of us have alternative ISP's to switch to. I hear upgrading to a business account can help with certain providers but that's not always available at all locations.
Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by vacri on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @05:34AM (#13228121)
Oh, for sure. I just mean those people who can choose.
Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by heydonovan on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @11:19AM (#13230237)
Just turned on the PS4 to play Final Fantasy XV, and was forced to update. The wireless signal was strong enough to actually complete it this time, but I ran into this bug:

https://www.reddit.com/r/FFXV/comments/5jh1em/103_patch_blac...

While waiting for the update, I wanted to comment on HackerNews, so I clicked on the 1Password icon in Google Chrome, and attempted to login. It crashed, and a bug report was sent to their team. I think I've come to expect that most software is poorly written. What further compounds that fact is a lot of it is not open-source. Tons of bugs are out there, with only a handful of people to actually fix them (when they have the time of course).

Also, I try to avoid consumer grade equipment when possible. I'll be switching to the Ubiquiti products soon enough, as I've heard nothing but positive remarks. The same issues exist in other fields as well. For example, a friend of mine does painting for a living. Consumer grade equipment like rollers and hand brushes can't even come close to expensive machinery such as a spray machine. Or a mechanic using a hydraulic lift on a vehicle versus common jack stands.

Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by Thimothy on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @06:11AM (#13228261)
"The only reason coders' computers work better than non-coders' computers is coders know computers are schizophrenic little children with auto-immune diseases and we don't beat them when they're bad."

https://www.stilldrinking.org/programming-sucks

As software has taken over everything, we can safely extend this to all technologies.

Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by microcolonel on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @01:32AM (#13227218)
I get it.

I think every time I work on a type of software for work, I can never trust it again. I have javascript disabled by default, images disabled by default, cookies disabled by default. Smartphones are too inconvenient to carry around, so I use a Nokia and keep a smartphone plugged in at home for tinder.

Even on my workstation, I got fed up with desktop environments so I don't use them.

Echo, at least, does not need to be charged.

Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by mahyarm on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @02:57AM (#13227542)
I try to ethernet connect every stationary thing I can. It reduces wifi congestion significantly and the wired items are rock solid.

The only things I have that aren't wired are iDevices, my laptop, a petnet feeder, a harmony hub and the echo. I hope amazon comes out out with an ethernet adapter like chromecast has. I don't have much hope for the other two.

Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by 20years on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @12:04PM (#13230674)
I feel the same way. We bought an echo for the kids a month ago. It wore off within a week. They now really only use it occasionally for music.

I could be partly to blame for that though because I don't like that fact that every thing they say into the echo is recorded and saved into the cloud so I limited what they could do with it. Don't want all my kids silly activities saved and tracked like that.

The Echo gets things wrong a lot more than 5%. I agree, that takes the fun out of it and becomes increasingly annoying. Sometimes, its quicker and easier to simply type in the search in Google.

I love my paper books!!

I still truly do not understand the full appeal of the IoT. I play with this stuff as a hobby, but I am always asking myself "would, I really use this in real life?" and 95% of the time the answer is no.

Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by wapz on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @01:20AM (#13227170)
I am the same way with net connection. I used to get so annoyed when I was living in the US and randomly my connection would start moving pre-56k speeds (AT&T). I've moved to Japan now and have yet to have a problem with my ISP.

Also, I hate using voice assistants. By the time I say "weather" I could have typed it into the browser (and 1/10 times it doesn't hear me properly and gives me some jibberish I'm not interested in).

Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by rblatz on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @01:42AM (#13227264)
Voice assistants aren't (in my opinion) for when you are at your computer. They are for when you are doing random daily tasks like getting dressed, cooking, watching tv, walking around the house... That's where the Echo shines.
Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by wapz on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @02:52AM (#13227525)
Ah, I was referring to my phone when I said type it in the browser. I don't use OK Google, so I have to hold down the home key or push the mic button to start talking (hence I'm better off just typing it). Always listening would probably be more convenient but I didn't want to take a hit to my battery life.
Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by godzillabrennus on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @06:14AM (#13228276)
Consumer networking gear is fantastically bad. The exception for most consumer purposes has been the Apple AirPort Extreme paired with a Mac but now that's about to be cut.

I use Ruckus Wireless WiFi paired with PFSense and HP Layer 2 & Layer 3 switching at home. I chose a building with 1Gbit fiber to my unit.

Things work great for me. The cost is crazy high for the typical consumer though. If I didn't run my own business from home I couldn't afford it.

Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by csomar on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @04:37AM (#13227884)
Thank you for your comment. The Tech world is similar to the under-developed countries and their shitty infrastructure. I've always been amazed how good the physical infrastructure on the developed world is, but tech doesn't seem to follow through.

Regarding the Macbook, you might have a hardware defect. I changed the Wifi/Bluetooth adapter (Macstore) and it now works flawlessly. It used to drop weirdly on some Wifi networks.

Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by tlow on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @01:50AM (#13227294)
Had some weird wifi issues with Apple. Ended up creating a new "Location" (the top setting under Network in System Preferences) and the issue resolved. This is probably a combination of factors like your ability to understand that your issues are technology ones (hopefully accurate), noticing and remembering problems comes more easily than remembering situations where you might not notice, that sort of thing...
Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by bryanrasmussen on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @03:43AM (#13227690)
Well some of it is everything is amazing, nobody is happy syndrome, but I suspect another thing is the same thing that happens with me.

I am cranky when I know someone could have fixed a bug or UI defect and since I know what the problem is, have some good clues as to their thinking on the issue it makes me more cranky.

Also I'm getting older.

Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by capex on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @01:32AM (#13227217)
I like your sense of entitlement, but most of these devices are novelty stuff. You shouldn't expect your macbook or wifi router to not work 5% of the time, but I guess you could live a happy life with wireless speakers, light switches and bluetooth connections work 95% of the time.
Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by Answerawake on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @01:50AM (#13227291)
In the case of your flaky wifi this guy seems to have the same problem and in his case it was caused by the non apple branded dongle he had connected: https://youtu.be/NYVjIjBMx6o?t=92
Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by WalterSear on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @01:18AM (#13227160)
I work on voice-enabled smart device control systems, and I agree with pretty everything you mention.
Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by hkmurakami on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @01:26AM (#13227196)
"The industry" will have to pry my "dumb house" out of my cold, dead hands. :)
Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by tonyedgecombe on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @02:25AM (#13227426)
The same for me, even when all this stuff works it rarely provides the value it promises.
Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by Raphmedia on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @11:54AM (#13230586)
You are not alone. I also have some gremlins messing with my technology.

I like to believe that there is an AI out there that managed to avoid CAPTCHA and is messing with us at the worst moments.

Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by davidiach on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @05:30AM (#13228101)
What you really need is a self-driving car! /s
Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by a_imho on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @04:03AM (#13227769)
Here's hoping kiss is waiting around the corner to be the new fad.
Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by acchow on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @01:38PM (#13231487)
> a 2016 macbook that for some reason won't keep disconnecting from my WiFi router

I've been using macbooks for 5+ years. Have never had a wifi issue with Airport Extreme. Not even once.

Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by blazespin on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @07:56AM (#13228699)
iOS is Pretty reliable for me. Probably why it's so popular
Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by SomeStupidPoint on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @01:25AM (#13227189)
I feel much the same way about technology you do (and work in tech myself).

I just like to think I have a keen sense of where technology doesn't make things better, just more complex.

I still mostly use paper books, paper to take notes, have a physical journal, whiteboard, and calendar, and generally not a lot of home automation. It's not even that the technologies don't work so much as they don't offer anything I need -- eg, why manage the overhead of a digital online calendar between multiple accounts when some paper and a thumbtack works fine to share plans for meals with roommates?

I just don't think complexity is the same as progress, which makes a lot of modern technology sort of unappealing -- it's complex (and hence error prone) solutions to simple problems, usually with a side helping of exploitative psychology and selling your personal information.

Pass.

Re:Amazon Sells Out of Echo Speakers in Midst of Holiday Rush by brilliantcode on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @01:00PM (#13231130)
You had me at record players :)

I think there's an entire world of record albums that never saw the light. Sites like discog makes me want to start a collection.

But I very much agree with what you wrote. I'm not sold on voice interfaces, that one time where it asks you "Sorry, can you repeat it again?" is the last time I'm using Google Now.

But more importantly I just feel like I look stupid talking to the air alone. Also feel like I have to strain my voice and focus when I'm talking to a machine which adds some friction.

I do miss the days when we didn't have such bloat. Games would load instantly and ready to play without signing into facebook or being awarded without doing anything.