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Re:Galileo navigation satellite system goes live by rzimmerman on Saturday December 17, 2016 @02:46PM (#13202112)
Galileo's actual value has always been murky. It's use case has changed a lot over the years. Originally it was meant to be a navigation system free of GPS's Selective Availability "feature" that diluted precision for civilian use. The Clinton administration effectively killed SA (http://www.gps.gov/systems/gps/modernization/sa/) in 2000. Galileo was sold as a higher precision civilian alternative that was going to be commercially viable and make money. A few years later the US made improvements to the GPS ephemerides and effectively increased precision of GPS, making the benefits less obvious. The new block of GPS satellites offers even better precision and a lot of the Galileo features (like multiple civilian frequencies). It's honestly quite hard to compete with a free alternative that the US government throws billions of dollars at. Still, GPS can't hit sub-meter accuracy any time soon, so there's a real potential use case emerging for autonomous cars and aircraft.

If you're excited and interested in Galileo it's really worth reading up on how GPS works and was built. The first satellite was launched almost forty years ago and it was operational in the 1980s. It's truly one of the coolest and most amazing things made by humans.

Re:Galileo navigation satellite system goes live by avar on Saturday December 17, 2016 @03:03PM (#13202214)
Selective Availability was replaced by regional denial capabilities with the GPS III satellites, i.e. instead of fuzzing the signal the US can now turn off GPS for entire countries[1].

It's strategically foolish for the major economies like the EU, Russia & China to depend on the US's goodwill in maintaining a system that drives a huge part of their economy, GPS is used pervasively for everything, and that's only increasing.

Trump wants NATO countries to pay their fair share, how long until he gets the idea that all countries around the world should pay a GPS licensing fee least GPS regional denial be turned on?

Those are the sort of reasons for why it makes sense to develop a GPS alternative, even if you're only aiming for feature parity, or even less than that.

1. https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/at...

Re:Galileo navigation satellite system goes live by swatkat on Saturday December 17, 2016 @03:10PM (#13202248)
>>> It's strategically foolish for the major economies like the EU, Russia & China to depend on the US's goodwill in maintaining a system that drives a huge part of their economy, GPS is used pervasively for everything, and that's only increasing.

Exactly. For this same reason, India recently deployed its own satellite navigation system NAVIC[1][2].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Regional_Navigation_Sat...

[2] http://www.isro.gov.in/irnss-programme

Re:Galileo navigation satellite system goes live by satbyy on Saturday December 17, 2016 @05:49PM (#13203184)
Indeed. In the India-Pakistan Kargil war of 1999, USA sided with Pak and turned off GPS for Indian troops. That led to the creation of NAVIC

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/science/How-Kargil-s...

Re:Galileo navigation satellite system goes live by saiya-jin on Sunday December 18, 2016 @06:52AM (#13205468)
seriously, WTF is wrong with US and their attitude towards India/Pakistan. India is democracy, never attacked anybody out of blue from 1947 when it was created (unlike its neighbors Pakistan and China who attacked it numerous times).

Yet US sides with dictatorship which doesn't even control its own secret service which creates its own terrorist organizations (laskar-e-taeba).

Re:Galileo navigation satellite system goes live by rwallace on Sunday December 18, 2016 @09:20AM (#13205862)
It's a political philosophy sometimes called 'realpolitik' that basically says never mind morality, just do what is in the interests of your own country. It has a certain emotional appeal, but when you take a cold and practical look at the history of decisions made on that basis, they tend to end up doing more harm than good to the interests of the country that made them, quite apart from everyone else.
Re:Galileo navigation satellite system goes live by angry_octet on Monday December 19, 2016 @06:27AM (#13210767)
India was part of the 'non-aligned' block and at various times has been keen on building ties with the Russians, buying lots of arms from them. In contrast, Pakistani leaders have been firmly in the US camp. Hence, in '71 it was a no-brainer for Nixon which side the US would support. It is bizarre the Nixon continued supporting Pakistan during the Bangladesh Genocide, but that's Nixon for you.

Also, India did invade and annex Goa in '62.

Re:Galileo navigation satellite system goes live by swatkat on Thursday December 22, 2016 @04:40PM (#13240624)
>> Also, India did invade and annex Goa in '62.

... because Goa is an historically Indian territory, and Republic of India just got it back from foreign invaders!?

Re:Galileo navigation satellite system goes live by cm2187 on Sunday December 18, 2016 @12:15PM (#13206548)
Not just dictatorships. Islamist dictatorships (Pakistan, Saudi Arabia). A lot of western (not just US) diplomacy is horribly short sighted.
Re:Galileo navigation satellite system goes live by JumpCrisscross on Monday December 19, 2016 @04:00AM (#13210332)
> never attacked anybody out of blue from 1947 when it was created

India "attacked" East Pakistan in the Bangladesh Liberation War [1]. Whether or not you or I feel it was justified is besides the point: it violated the sovereignty of another nation (similar to the U.S. in Iraq and Russia in Crimea).

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bangladesh_Libera...

Re:Galileo navigation satellite system goes live by tim333 on Monday December 19, 2016 @06:21AM (#13210742)
Your linked article reads

"India joined the war on 3 December 1971, after Pakistan launched preemptive air strikes on North India."

which doesn't sound out of the blue to me.

Re:Galileo navigation satellite system goes live by tim333 on Monday December 19, 2016 @06:18AM (#13210739)
I think they're worried the Pakistani islamists will give nukes to the international jihadi islamists if we aren't somewhat supportive.
Re:Galileo navigation satellite system goes live by rahrahrah on Sunday December 18, 2016 @09:30AM (#13205893)
You must be new here. It's not about democracy, it's what's more convenient for the US interests. Welcome to HN.
Re:Galileo navigation satellite system goes live by alexqgb on Saturday December 17, 2016 @05:04PM (#13202934)
Russia's GLONASS too, antennas for which have been built into iPhones since the 4S. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GLONASS
Re:Galileo navigation satellite system goes live by nradov on Sunday December 18, 2016 @03:20AM (#13204890)
Most smartphones designed in the past few years support GLONASS. Russian law requires GLONASS support to be sold there, so manufacturers have generally added it across their model lines since that's easier than producing different SKUs for sale in Russia.
Re:Galileo navigation satellite system goes live by jhayward on Saturday December 17, 2016 @04:26PM (#13202736)
I've never seen an authoritative reference for any area denial capability in block III. Can you provide one?

There is an enhanced footprint signal boost capability for the military but that's the opposite of what you describe.

Re:Galileo navigation satellite system goes live by avar on Saturday December 17, 2016 @05:40PM (#13203135)
I think the FAA is an authoritative reference, and I linked to their claims about GPS III regional denial in my original post.
Re:Galileo navigation satellite system goes live by jhayward on Saturday December 17, 2016 @06:01PM (#13203236)
Ah, I see where the misunderstanding arises. The reference to regional denial on that page is not a feature of any GPS satellite.

The military has airborne and surface-based electronic warfare platforms that can be used to jam GPS. That's what is referenced on that page.

The FAA is not considered an authority for GPS, with the exception of certifying that WAAS is in-service for aircraft when it is meeting FAA specifications. For civilian information purposes the appropriate agency is the US Coast Guard NAVCEN.

The Air Force Space Command is the holds primary developmental, specification, and operational responsibility.

Re:Galileo navigation satellite system goes live by avar on Sunday December 18, 2016 @01:35PM (#13206921)
Yes I'm pretty sure you're right. I wrote most of my comment from memory and just dug up a reference, knowing the FAA doesn't operate GPS, but figured their FAQ was summarizing the satellite features.

But I've searched around and can't find anything that indicates that this is a feature of the satellites themselves, rather it's just as you say, the US military has replaced SA with the general ability to jam local radio traffic, including GPS. E.g. [1] is another source for that.

So it does look like the US can't block GPS for entire countries anymore, I take that back.

I must say though, I think any public commentary about GPS capabilities should be taken with a huge grain of salt. It's a military system, they're very likely lying or not telling the full truth about what it's really capable of. E.g. I find the claim that the new generation can't do SA by design dubious, surely just fuzzing the signal by some offset is a rather trivial change.

1. https://web.archive.org/web/20050921115614/http://ngs.woc.no...

Re:Galileo navigation satellite system goes live by angry_octet on Monday December 19, 2016 @06:48AM (#13210843)
If SPACECOM can't tell the Navstar satellites to turn on selective availability for specific areas I will eat my hat. Much effort is being expended to provide over the air crypto re-key, increase anti-jam margin and improve signal authentication [1]. Would you really disable the SA feature when military consumer platforms now have the features to re-key, obviating the main drawback of SA?

[1] http://www.dote.osd.mil/pub/reports/fy2011/pdf/af/2011gps.pd...

Re:Galileo navigation satellite system goes live by jhayward on Tuesday December 20, 2016 @05:07AM (#13218674)
It takes a fair amount of magical thinking to believe that GPS can do area denial from space. Consider how many satellites are above the horizon for a given location at any moment - somewhere around 8-12 at any moment, or more.

Each of those satellites in view would have to be implementing this scheme you suggest in order for it to be effective.

Since the satellites only have a single transmitter for each signal their entire receiving area would be affected by whatever modifications are made to implement SA. This means that to turn SA on for a single area more than half the globe would be getting a degraded signal from 1 or more satellites, which ones being undetectable.

I'm afraid SA is an all-or-nothing idea. Area denial (jamming) by surface and airborne transmitters is a much more workable approach. One could imagine jamming from space, but not using the GPS satellite vehicles.

Re:Galileo navigation satellite system goes live by angry_octet on Tuesday December 20, 2016 @06:44AM (#13219009)
Is it 'magical thinking' that the NSA would build a system with the capability to intercept every VPN session traversing the US, and spend ~$500 million to break the DH groups with the mother of all rainbow tables?

So, to GPS. In the original GPS SA it is certainly true that many satellites would have to be using degraded mode to guarantee degradation for a specific point. However, the newer satellites have an additional directional antenna. While primarily for transmitting M-code to a specific region, it could equally be used for transmitting a self-jamming signal.

Re:Galileo navigation satellite system goes live by themihai on Sunday December 18, 2016 @08:09AM (#13205686)
Actually US can still jam Gallileo. US "asked" EU to patch it so that it can be controlled(turned off) by the US in case of war with Russia or China.
Re:Galileo navigation satellite system goes live by msl on Sunday December 18, 2016 @08:28AM (#13205739)
The "patch" was changing to a different frequency band, allowing anyone to block only one system without affecting the other [1]. This is very much different from being able to turn it off.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_(satellite_navigation)...

Re:Galileo navigation satellite system goes live by planteen on Sunday December 18, 2016 @12:23PM (#13206585)
I think OP meant jam. I believe at some point in the discussions about the Galileo frequencies that the US threatened that they may need to use an ASAT weapon on Galileo spacecraft if they believe the system was being used against them. That would have been the only way to maintain GPS and stop Galileo. So Galileo switched to a different frequency than GPS.
Re:Galileo navigation satellite system goes live by user837387 on Saturday December 17, 2016 @03:13PM (#13202265)
>>Trump wants NATO countries to pay their fair share, how long until he gets the idea that all countries around the world should pay a GPS licensing fee least GPS regional denial be turned on?<<

Now now, do not insert political commentary into this discussions. I got yelled at for doing that. [1]

[1]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13197536

Re:Galileo navigation satellite system goes live by mattnewton on Saturday December 17, 2016 @04:23PM (#13202722)
I don't think this is unwarranted political comentary, the reasons to build the alternative to gps are largely political according to GP
Re:Galileo navigation satellite system goes live by Normal_gaussian on Saturday December 17, 2016 @05:01PM (#13202927)
I am largely with you, however the direct Trump referencing is unwarranted - it is the institution he will represent, not the man, which is involved in this political battleground.

EDIT: to wit, the institution is the most powerful military force, active across the globe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_Uni...

Re:Galileo navigation satellite system goes live by MBCook on Saturday December 17, 2016 @10:22PM (#13204136)
He doesn't represent the administration, he leads it.

It seems perfectly fair and reasonable reason to mention the power the president has in the situation given some of the president elect's statements.

Re:Galileo navigation satellite system goes live by PunchTornado on Saturday December 17, 2016 @03:54PM (#13202516)
The benefits of Galileo are very clear for me as an EU taxpayer.

Don't rely on GPS because it is controlled by a single country and that country can shut it down whenever it likes.

No country is your friend forever, you only have to look at the Trump administration. It takes 1 election and everything can swing in the wrong direction.

Re:Galileo navigation satellite system goes live by 6t6t6t6 on Saturday December 17, 2016 @09:23PM (#13203969)
Completely agree.

GPS is so essential, that is becoming more and more a "single point of failure" for our civilization.

Without having any data, I have the intuition that the cost of deploying our own GPS system may be worth just as an "insurance".

Re:Galileo navigation satellite system goes live by sounds on Saturday December 17, 2016 @10:31PM (#13204162)
To all who are writing that the EU Galileo system is "insurance" against the US's regional denial capability, it appears you haven't thought through how they would do that.

It would not be by turning off or fuzzing the US GPS signal. It would be by deploying vessels with jammers.

Galileo was originally designed to be on an independent frequency, and the US has pushed to have it so close to the US GPS frequency that jamming will effectively kill both.

Not great insurance.

http://www.navipedia.net/index.php/GNSS_signal

Re:Galileo navigation satellite system goes live by msl on Sunday December 18, 2016 @08:30AM (#13205745)
> Galileo was originally designed to be on an independent frequency, and the US has pushed to have it so close to the US GPS frequency that jamming will effectively kill both.

This (as I wrote in another comment) is the exact opposite of what actually happened [1].

Edit: Added a reference.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Positioning_System#Rest...

Re:Galileo navigation satellite system goes live by sounds on Monday December 19, 2016 @02:16PM (#13214130)
Ok, you are correct.

Galileo was originally designed to use the same frequencies as GPS.

Now they use different enough frequencies that Galileo can be jammed without jamming GPS. Of course, jamming both is also possible.

Re:Galileo navigation satellite system goes live by MBCook on Saturday December 17, 2016 @10:23PM (#13204137)
I wonder if we've gotten to the point were attempting to turn it off would harm us (United States) directly as much as anyone else, even if we only do it in certain sections of the world.
Re:Galileo navigation satellite system goes live by gizmo686 on Sunday December 18, 2016 @12:32AM (#13204504)
Turing off GPS would not have to be binary. There is a seperate, encrypted, GPS frequency that the US government can continue using even in places that they shut down GPS for everyone else. Additionally, they can degrade the accuracy of civilian GPS (also in a targeted area if they wanted).
Re:Galileo navigation satellite system goes live by dsl on Sunday December 18, 2016 @02:56AM (#13204820)
During the Iraq war everyone kept trying to find these magic encrypted GPS devices that used military only frequencies. I never saw one, or heard of anyone using one.

Even SEALs are issued the same Garmin Foretrex 401 you can get at Best Buy.

Re:Galileo navigation satellite system goes live by makomk on Sunday December 18, 2016 @06:49AM (#13205457)
I believe that they're considered classified material and are also big, clunky and expensive, which is why the military just ends up using standard civilian GPS equipment a lot of the time.
Re:Galileo navigation satellite system goes live by wyager on Sunday December 18, 2016 @11:56AM (#13206453)
Government fab and production tech can't compete with the stuff on the open market. From GPS to crypto hardware, civilian stuff is almost always smaller and more usable. I suspect most hardware using the encrypted GPS channels is in munitions.
Re:Galileo navigation satellite system goes live by nickonline on Sunday December 18, 2016 @04:37AM (#13205068)
The GPS clearly only works at certain speeds and heights, there's another level...

If this doesn't exist then those missiles don't work...

Re:Galileo navigation satellite system goes live by msl on Sunday December 18, 2016 @08:34AM (#13205759)
A GPS receiver is not supposed to work at an altitude greater than 60000 feet or while travelling at over 1000 knots, but the system itself does not in any way enforce this restriction [1].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Positioning_System#Rest...

Re:Galileo navigation satellite system goes live by tacon on Sunday December 18, 2016 @11:31AM (#13206345)
A friend in Houston was telling me in the early 2000s about working on a NASA JSC project to use an off the shelf GPS receiver on the space shuttle. It took a few iterations on the firmware to handle 18,000 mph, etc., but he said the vendor eventually converged on firmware that worked in orbit.
Re:Galileo navigation satellite system goes live by joncrocks on Sunday December 18, 2016 @05:57PM (#13208226)
To be clear, it's not that a receiver couldn't work, but that it shouldn't.

A civilian receiver is meant to deactivate under certain conditions lest it be suitable for use in things that go very fast and fly very high, e.g. missiles.

So as you say, you may be able to change the firmware to disable these restrictions, just don't try and take them out of the US...

Re:Galileo navigation satellite system goes live by sleavey on Sunday December 18, 2016 @06:56PM (#13208481)
Or buy a receiver from outside the US that's ITAR-free.
Re:Galileo navigation satellite system goes live by TickleSteve on Sunday December 18, 2016 @05:46AM (#13205275)
you're describing 'Selective Availability'.

...and that was removed quite a few years ago now.

Re:Galileo navigation satellite system goes live by flyinglizard on Saturday December 17, 2016 @02:56PM (#13202172)
Having an alternative to GPS in mission critical systems is enough of a case to justify the existence of Galileo in the first place. Things like drones or self driving cars are not just about accuracy, but also reliability, and civilian GPS is not bulletproof (especially not in urban area). We're already seeing triple band GPS implementations with Galileo, GPS and GLONASS (the Russian alternative).
Re:Galileo navigation satellite system goes live by digi_owl on Saturday December 17, 2016 @04:38PM (#13202801)
Depending on the device SoC, you may see 4 different constellations, as China has their own.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BeiDou_Navigation_Satellite_Sy...

Re:Galileo navigation satellite system goes live by Rebelgecko on Sunday December 18, 2016 @02:23AM (#13204746)
Also QZSS, if you're in the right part of the world
Re:Galileo navigation satellite system goes live by UnoriginalGuy on Saturday December 17, 2016 @03:00PM (#13202196)
While I agree with the principle in your point, does Galileo operate on a different enough set of frequencies to avoid interference that would knock out GPS?
Re:Galileo navigation satellite system goes live by avar on Saturday December 17, 2016 @03:05PM (#13202225)
Re:Galileo navigation satellite system goes live by jhayward on Saturday December 17, 2016 @04:38PM (#13202800)
This is not correct. The primary civilian signal for both Galileo and GPS have the same frequency on L1, 1575.42 MHz. Their modulation schemes and encoding are coordinated to not interfere. [1]

http://www.navipedia.net/index.php/GNSS_signal

Re:Galileo navigation satellite system goes live by CamperBob2 on Saturday December 17, 2016 @03:38PM (#13202412)
Galileo's actual value has always been murky.

Not even remotely. GNSS is far too important to be left up to one or two militaristic providers whose interests (to put it mildly) may not always coincide with your own.

If anything we need more systems up there.

Re:Galileo navigation satellite system goes live by int_19h on Saturday December 17, 2016 @07:49PM (#13203701)
And more satellites are good for everyone, at least so long as all these systems remain open for use. It means more accuracy, and some redundancy never hurts, either.
Re:Galileo navigation satellite system goes live by CalChris on Saturday December 17, 2016 @03:17PM (#13202296)
> Still, GPS can't hit sub-meter accuracy any time soon

GPS has had sub-millimeter survey grade accuracy for quite some time. However, these require post-processing which takes maybe a day, read that as not realtime.

WAAS+GPS currently gives 2-3 meters.

Re:Galileo navigation satellite system goes live by ComodoHacker on Saturday December 17, 2016 @03:59PM (#13202561)
>sub-millimeter survey grade accuracy

Could you provide some links to read? I just can't imagine how it's possible.

Re:Galileo navigation satellite system goes live by mikeha on Saturday December 17, 2016 @04:55PM (#13202896)
http://www.leica-geosystems.us/common/shared/downloads/inc/d...

(full disclosure: I work for Leica Geosystems.)

With real-time kinematic service, our GPS receivers give you 8mm horizontally and 15mm vertically. And you will get 3mm hz and 4mm vertical with post processing.

Re:Galileo navigation satellite system goes live by CalChris on Saturday December 17, 2016 @05:25PM (#13203048)
Does Galileo change this at all? Or is it just more better GPS,GLONASS,...
Re:Galileo navigation satellite system goes live by _coldfire on Saturday December 17, 2016 @04:56PM (#13202904)
It is achievable with static post-processing of GPS data, kinematica claims 8mm. For real time requirements, there's consumer level products that offer accuracy of a few centimeters.

https://www.advancednavigation.com.au/product/kinematica

https://emlid.com/reach/

Re:Galileo navigation satellite system goes live by nullc on Saturday December 17, 2016 @04:45PM (#13202847)
Sub-millimeter is a little tricky.

Very high (few centimeter) resolution can be done in real-time, in fact, under some limitations. Keyword: real-time kinematic.

One important component is using a reasonably short baseline: you have a receiver at a known location somewhat nearby (in many places there are networks of stations run by the relevant governments), and you compute difference between your solution and the station's solution. Most of the errors are common between the two and so they cancel.

Another important component is carrier phase tracking: The receiver processes the signal to recover the carrier phase. This boosts the resolution from the code timing to a level determined by the carrier frequency (and signal bandpass). Unfortunately, it leaves an integer ambiguity-- you know you are 'something' + 0.233 cycles from the sat, you need to solve for the 'something'; you can do this by collecting enough data as the sats move around or by starting at a known position and moving while holding a lock.

Another component is multiple frequency operation. There is a set of GPS signals on the L2 band some 350MHz lower in frequency. If you imagine the lattice of integer solutions in 3D space for two different frequencies you can observe the the integer solutions coincide very infrequently, leaving few options to choose between. Dual frequency operation also allows for correction of ionospheric effects.

Another component is semi-codeless tracking: The L1 and L2 GPS signals have a military P-code signal which is encrypted. The P code signal runs at 10x the speed and has a much longer repeat interval, this increases the accuracy of code tracking and improves multipath resistance. The L2 signal has historically only had the P-code stream. The encryption would be a barrier except it's kind of broken: The codestream is 10MHz but the stream cipher runs at only 500KHz and the same signal is sent on L1 and L2. Because of the first property you can still range against the P-code and because of the second you can find the phase offset between L1 and L2 quite precisely. (Trade name for this kind of codeless tracking is "Z-tracking"). --- this is hopefully becoming less necessary now with new civilian (unencrypted) signals on L2 and L5. The new signals also have better anti-multipath properties.

Any survey receiver worth the name implements these techniques and many more. For realtime (non-postprocessed) output using the above, accuracy is 2cm +/- 2ppm (of the distance to your reference station) or so.

What postprocessing does is lets you use very accurate orbital and ionospheric data which is available for download some hours later, built based on observations by many known-position ground stations. (I believe the Galileo sats even have retro-reflectors for laser based ranging, though I don't know if they're used yet.) ... plus using many hours of observations as the sats move through the sky.

So like any modern technology, the state of the art result isn't given by any one technique but by many combined.

Re:Galileo navigation satellite system goes live by ComodoHacker on Saturday December 17, 2016 @11:36PM (#13204356)
Thank you for your thorough but not overcomplicated explanation.
Re:Galileo navigation satellite system goes live by madengr on Saturday December 17, 2016 @08:37PM (#13203850)
Isn't carrier phase tracked off the 1 PPS transition?
Re:Galileo navigation satellite system goes live by CalChris on Saturday December 17, 2016 @04:13PM (#13202655)
http://www.gpstk.org/foswiki/pub/Documentation/GPSTkPublicat...

I think I overstated but still it is possible. Millimeter survey grade is commercial.

Re:Galileo navigation satellite system goes live by vegabook on Saturday December 17, 2016 @09:15PM (#13203943)
what is murky about 10x more precision?? Sounds like sour grapes. Sure GPS is amazing. Now there's something better. Just because it isn't American doesn't mean its value is questionable. Nothing is being taken away here. Choice is being added.
Re:Galileo navigation satellite system goes live by nradov on Saturday December 17, 2016 @06:12PM (#13203304)
Perhaps the Europeans are concerned that if the USA gets into a shooting war with China or Russia in a few decades, our GPS satellites will be the first casualties.
Re:Galileo navigation satellite system goes live by chiph on Saturday December 17, 2016 @11:02PM (#13204262)
There's no question that GPS satellites will be a high-value target in the next super-regional conflict. The system was a primary reason why Saddam was defeated (temporarily!) in Desert Storm. The Iraqis were used to getting lost in the trackless desert from their war with Iran, and assumed that the coalition forces would be just as lost. GPS allowed the famous "left hook" that cut the Republican Guard off.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/gps-and-the-world...

Re:Galileo navigation satellite system goes live by vegabook on Saturday December 17, 2016 @09:23PM (#13203971)
and perhaps that is a legitimate concern for more than just Europeans, and that includes Americans, and perhaps it's not just about war, but about competition, trade, and fair global access to a technology not being beholden to a single administration (especially in the new age of "America first").
Re:Galileo navigation satellite system goes live by matthewmcg on Sunday December 18, 2016 @09:25AM (#13205881)
Is there a good, wide-ranging treatment of the history of GPS? Something like Rhodes' Making of the Atomic Bomb but for electronic navigation?
Re:Galileo navigation satellite system goes live by ajross on Sunday December 18, 2016 @12:02PM (#13206481)
> It's honestly quite hard to compete with a free alternative that the US government throws billions of dollars at.

Yes, but it's not a commercial venture. Surely there is equivalent value in having a satellite system that European governments throw billions of euros at, no?