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Re:Sublime Text 3 Build 3124 by gravypod on Wednesday September 21, 2016 @09:26PM (#12553652)
I wish the Sublime Text people open sourced their code. I'd buy it from them in that event and I'd finally have a text editor to recommend. Atom, VS code, and anything else is completely blown out of the water by ST. There's a reason it's still around and it's because ST is the only thing that can even think of doing what sublime text can do.

Good work to the people behind it, it's an amazing feat no doubt. Just please consider making it free software for all of us who care about that just a bit. Amazing work none the less.

Re:Sublime Text 3 Build 3124 by pjmlp on Thursday September 22, 2016 @12:56AM (#12554479)
People need to eat, pay the bills.....

I doubt donations would be even half of what his creator is getting now.

$70 dollars is already pretty ok, considering I was paying above 150 with student discount on the mid-90 for software tools.

Why this urge to get stuff for free, yet wanting to sell own work.

And yes, I do donnate to all FOSS projects relevant to my work, as if I had bought a license.

Re:Sublime Text 3 Build 3124 by captainmuon on Thursday September 22, 2016 @04:31AM (#12555384)
The demo is already unlimited. People wo want to free-load (or can't afford a license) can already now user it for free.

I know there are many people who will obey the license, but would not donate. If you dual license it (commerical and GPL), they'd just accept the GPL "deal". So it still makes sense to not have a GPL option business wise.

But what about, instead of open source, they make it "source open" or "source available"? Here is the source, you may not use it unless I die. Or you may use it, but not sell it. Or you must contribute changes back if you release a changed version...

They have no big trade secrets in the source. They already rely on the fact that customers obey licenses that they materially don't have to. So I believe they have nothing to lose by making the source available.

Re:Sublime Text 3 Build 3124 by pjmlp on Thursday September 22, 2016 @05:29AM (#12555623)
Other than having others packing the software and selling it as theirs.
Re:Sublime Text 3 Build 3124 by blowski on Thursday September 22, 2016 @02:10AM (#12554781)
The OP said they're happy to pay for it. Open source doesn't necessarily imply zero cost.
Re:Sublime Text 3 Build 3124 by ternaryoperator on Thursday September 22, 2016 @04:33AM (#12555395)
>Open source doesn't necessarily imply zero cost.

While it's true you can charge for your OSS product, all OSS licenses allow the recipient to distribute the source code (and the built binaries) at no cost. So, OSS does imply free, even if it doesn't mandate it.

Re:Sublime Text 3 Build 3124 by baldfat on Thursday September 22, 2016 @09:21AM (#12556614)
The source code not compiled code.
Re:Sublime Text 3 Build 3124 by dewiz on Thursday September 22, 2016 @03:04AM (#12555021)
actually:

>> Just please consider making it free software for all of us

Re:Sublime Text 3 Build 3124 by blowski on Thursday September 22, 2016 @03:23AM (#12555095)
> I wish the Sublime Text people open sourced their code. I'd _buy_ it from them in that event. (Emphasis is mine)

I took that to mean the OP wanted it to be "free as in freedom" not "free as in beer".

Re:Sublime Text 3 Build 3124 by Biganon on Thursday September 22, 2016 @04:33AM (#12555396)
Free software doesn't imply gratuity (and neither does open source)
Re:Sublime Text 3 Build 3124 by pjmlp on Thursday September 22, 2016 @05:31AM (#12555631)
How many GNU/Linux users pay for their distributions?
Re:Sublime Text 3 Build 3124 by gravypod on Thursday September 22, 2016 @08:51AM (#12556438)
I'd pay for a distribution if it was better then free (cost) software.

For instance, if Apple decided today "Hey why not just make OSX a set of applications, a window manager, and a desktop environment for Linux and make it free software." I'd pay for it. I'd pay the 100 bucks because no one really does UX better then Apple.

Re:Sublime Text 3 Build 3124 by TickleSteve on Thursday September 22, 2016 @03:09AM (#12555040)
Interestingly, I would prefer that it were subscription-funded.

I would prefer to acknowledge on-going development costs and pay those for a continually-developed, high-quality editor.

Re:Sublime Text 3 Build 3124 by paublyrne on Thursday September 22, 2016 @03:21AM (#12555089)
Same here. My reaction to JetBrains doing that was dismay at first. But I've come to appreciate speed of updates, although the last update of IDEA completely broke the Vim Emulator for me, so I've switched back to ST.

I think he should at least put a demo time limit on using Sublime Unregistered. It's established enough now, and the extra revenue could help speed up development. There are a few things that Atom does in a nicer way, like package management.

But Atom doesn't feel nice because of the speed issues, for me.

Re:Sublime Text 3 Build 3124 by EasyTiger_ on Thursday September 22, 2016 @03:51AM (#12555237)
Doesn't the developer basically abandon it for years at a time?
Re:Sublime Text 3 Build 3124 by toxican on Thursday September 22, 2016 @08:27AM (#12556300)
Looking back a few years at the dev log, it looks like it was one big update per year, then for 2016 we've seen an update every 2-3 months. So who knows anymore? I'm inclined to think these semi-rapid updates are to bring 3.0 out of beta, so I'm not so sure we should expect the same "speed" for too long.
Re:Sublime Text 3 Build 3124 by gravypod on Thursday September 22, 2016 @08:55AM (#12556464)
I'm not talking about cost free, I'm talking about libre-free.
Re:Sublime Text 3 Build 3124 by mhurron on Thursday September 22, 2016 @07:54AM (#12556165)
It would instantly be forked and have the payment nag removed within 24 hours of it being open sourced by someone who is not willing to pay for it but still wants that nag removed. And they wouldn't be the only person to use that fork.

I doubt it would be a very good move for the author.

Re:Sublime Text 3 Build 3124 by gravypod on Thursday September 22, 2016 @08:54AM (#12556450)
Payment nagging isn't really acceptable for an application in general for free software. Just give the source distribution to anyone who pays for it and require copy-left changes.
Re:Sublime Text 3 Build 3124 by zeveb on Thursday September 22, 2016 @10:36AM (#12557044)
> There's a reason it's still around and it's because ST is the only thing that can even think of doing what sublime text can do.

I'm pretty certain that both emacs & vim can do anything Sublime Text can do, but I'm open to being shown otherwise.

Re:Sublime Text 3 Build 3124 by gravypod on Thursday September 22, 2016 @11:08AM (#12557315)
Have an easy to understand Graphical User Interface.

Keyboard commands aren't the reason I want Sublime Text. I want it for the amazing plugins that support a load of features as well as having a graphical user interface.

Re:Sublime Text 3 Build 3124 by zeveb on Thursday September 22, 2016 @12:53PM (#12558204)
emacs has an easy to understand GUI (as an example, here's a screenshot of its gdb mode: https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/tour/images/gdb.png), and amazing plugins that support a load of features.

There's a reason people have spent so many years using it.

Re:Sublime Text 3 Build 3124 by hollerith on Friday September 23, 2016 @08:23AM (#12564004)
I use the Emacs GUI, but would not call it easy to understand because it differs so much from most modern GUIs (i.e., most GUIs designed after the Mac became the most popular platform for GUIs around 1987).

For example, if there is already a selection, right click in Emacs extends it much like pressing a shift-arrow key does in a typical GUI. (Most modern GUIs will of course pop up a contextual menu in that situation.)

Similar to the keyboard-driven part, as much as possible of the GUI part of Emacs is implemented in Lisp, so it seems to me (as someone who has modified his copy of Emacs to pop up a contextual menu on right click) that it would be fairly easy to write a GUI for Emacs that adheres much more closely to modern conventions than the GUI that comes with Emacs does, but the only project I know of that has tried to do so is the Aquamacs project.

Re:Sublime Text 3 Build 3124 by zoilism on Wednesday September 21, 2016 @09:31PM (#12553669)
its' pretty much free, but for the occasional alert
Re:Sublime Text 3 Build 3124 by gravypod on Wednesday September 21, 2016 @09:34PM (#12553686)
Free is not libre. I am willing to pay with money but I'm not willing to pay with security violations and my morals.
Re:Sublime Text 3 Build 3124 by baldfat on Wednesday September 21, 2016 @09:39PM (#12553697)
$70 doesn't seem free. Personally VS Code on Linux has been rock solid for me.
Re:Sublime Text 3 Build 3124 by zoilism on Wednesday September 21, 2016 @09:43PM (#12553712)
There is a paid version and a free version. I meant that the free version works fine, except you get an occasional alert.
Re:Sublime Text 3 Build 3124 by tux1968 on Wednesday September 21, 2016 @10:18PM (#12553860)
There doesn't seem to be a free version at all. There is an evaluation version which is meant to tide you over until you decide to buy or abandon ST. It wouldn't be right to promote such an arrangement as a "free version".
Re:Sublime Text 3 Build 3124 by enraged_camel on Wednesday September 21, 2016 @11:27PM (#12554105)
The evaluation version is free and it works forever. If the developers were not OK with that, they would put a time limit on it. Since they haven't, that means they're OK with it.
Re:Sublime Text 3 Build 3124 by slavik81 on Thursday September 22, 2016 @12:11AM (#12554290)
It works on the honour system. Rigorous enforcement is more difficult and annoying than its worth.

If you continue to use the evaluation copy after you're done evaluating it, nobody's going to stop you, but it is a little dishonest.

Re:Sublime Text 3 Build 3124 by guitarbill on Thursday September 22, 2016 @08:46AM (#12556398)
If you use Sublime Text professionally and you get audited/noticed, not having a licence would be a big mistake. $70 is pittance for "enterprise" software, plus I wouldn't want to work with somebody who's effectively dishonest.

If you're an amateur (in the literal sense, not as an insult), then you might be more inclined to pirate it. I guess the developers are savvy enough to realise this, and just put a nag-screen in instead.

Bottom line, some people have the luxury of having such well-paid jobs that open source is a real possibility nowadays. But ST is likely someone's income/living, and shafting the devs isn't cool at all. If you're not happy with this, you can always make another editor, but it turns out to be fairly hard to do (see Atom).

Re:Sublime Text 3 Build 3124 by acangiano on Thursday September 22, 2016 @12:49AM (#12554451)
I like to call it "free as in WinRAR".
Re:Sublime Text 3 Build 3124 by ryanplant-au on Thursday September 22, 2016 @12:16AM (#12554309)
There is not a free version. There's an evaluation version that doesn't lock out any features, but it's not provided to you for free -- you have to pay to continue using it. If you're just using it as your text editor for free you're abusing the honour system.
[dead]
Re:Sublime Text 3 Build 3124 by ball_of_lint on Thursday September 22, 2016 @02:44AM (#12554938)
Just because you can pirate a version of a game, does that make it free? How about tv or music? Obviously not.

Well, same goes for ST3. Just because it doesn't have agressive DRM and lockouts doesn't make it any more free.

Re:Sublime Text 3 Build 3124 by captainmuon on Thursday September 22, 2016 @04:44AM (#12555444)
Well, there is the letter of the law, and people don't all necessarily agree with it.

I personally believe creators of software (music, games, other immaterial goods) should be compensated and rewarded fairly, and I gladly let them have their fair share.

At the same time, I find it ridiculous to pay for something that can be copied at no cost. The technology allows everything to be free, but we force an emulation of physical goods onto the digital world, so we don't have to change the way or society works. We use the legal system to enforce this.

I haven't found a way to reconcile these two views yet, this is a major unsolved problem in our society. I believe a solution would need a radical change in how our economy works.

But in the meanwhile, I have no moral problem to "pirate" stuff when I can't afford it or think it is to expensive.

Acrobat Pro? Photoshop? As rarely as I need it and as expensive as it is: Free. MS Office: has become to cumbersome to pirate, costs. Sublime Text? I like the product and want the Indy developer to succeed, so costs, too.

Re:Sublime Text 3 Build 3124 by Veen on Thursday September 22, 2016 @05:37AM (#12555652)
> I haven't found a way to reconcile these two views yet

I'm not sure what your difficulty is. There's almost no cost to create a copy, but creating the original has many costs. Since no one is going to pay for creating the original upfront, the developer asks people to pay for the copies, and legal protections ensure that's possible.

Reminds me of an episode of West Wing that discusses the cost of pharaceuticals:

"Why do they charge $100 for a pill that costs $1 to make?"

"Because the first pill cost $100,000,000 to make."

Re:Sublime Text 3 Build 3124 by tripzilch on Monday September 26, 2016 @08:51AM (#12581344)
$100 for a single pill (that saves lives) is actually considered quite insane in most healthcare systems in the developed world, and there isn't any fairytale about intellectual property you can spin that would make it palatable. I'm not a US citizen and I realize I'm no one to judge, every country and culture has their own lies, and some are a lot worse.

Just let us pull the wool over our own eyes, please.

Pause for a moment and reflect on the few posts above. It feels really weird to conflate in the same breath the entertainment industry and healthcare. I don't believe it's a given that the same standards should apply to both, but the topic flows like it's just that (and I vaguely remember it being about a text-editor, once ... ;) ).

So, entertainment and some perspective on the status quo; It's been roughly half a century since the entertainment/media/content distribution industry has been growing into a very powerful political lobby, pushing for more stronger enforcement of intellectual property rights in the face of changing information technologies.

Some person who doesn't know any better might think, "Hey wait what, artists holding political power? That sounds like one of those crazy counter-culture TAZ-type pipe dreams, I always wondered what would happen if that would actually come to happen ..." -- except of course it didn't because it's not the artists, it's the middle-men that hold nearly all the power -- I'm not that person btw, nor saying I want artists to rule the world ;) Just painting a silly picture to show what intellectual property rights on the surface seem to do (protecting content-creators) but in addition shifting a disproportionally large amount of power completely elsewhere ("rightsholders", "the content industry", "big media", middle-men, etc).

Now here comes the magic trick. Enforcing IP rights, tightening the laws, going after pirates, DRM, all that stuff the content industry is lobbying for, apart from generic "control", what does it really accomplish? It basically tries to make intellectual property into a fungible good. That's what it does. But you can rule and legislate all you want, that doesn't make it so. All that's happened is that you've ruled and legislated it so that people must act (and pretend) that intellectual property is a fungible good. Carefully worded legislation to change a fundamental aspect of reality, it's the closest thing to a magic spell you'll see.

Imagine the other way around, imagine a "free and open matter lobby" decreeing that bananas should no longer be considered a fungible good and that anyone should be able to copy bananas freely. Carefully worded legislation tip-toes around the insanity of this idea, in a way that makes it illegal to commercially differentiate between an "original banana" and its copies, or that copies of a banana are somehow less nutritious than the supposed "original", regardless of the medium they're copied on--instead the big players in the industry advertise their bananas as being intrinsically "more copyable" than the competition (whose bananas are rumoured to come from a "master copy", which is an atrocious lie, as it is illegal to keep track).

If only we could liberate more fruit, we might solve world hunger and in particular we could feed all the starving artists. Maybe next century!

Re:Sublime Text 3 Build 3124 by eli on Wednesday September 21, 2016 @10:29PM (#12553899)
But does the license permit you to use the free version to do work? The issue isn't the alerts it's compliance with the spirit and letter of the shareware version.
Re:Sublime Text 3 Build 3124 by bdcravens on Wednesday September 21, 2016 @10:53PM (#12553990)
"Sublime Text may be downloaded and evaluated for free, however a license must be purchased for continued use."

There is no separate shareware version. What makes Sublime unique is that it never stops working; it's evaluation period is open, and treats the user as an adult to do the right and legal thing.

Re:Sublime Text 3 Build 3124 by flukus on Wednesday September 21, 2016 @10:56PM (#12554001)
Not really unique, it used to be very common. Remember winzip?
Re:Sublime Text 3 Build 3124 by bdcravens on Wednesday September 21, 2016 @11:04PM (#12554030)
True - winrar and mirc also come to mind. In today's world of app store DRM at one end and open source options at the other, it's definitely a stand-out more than it would have been a few years ago.
Re:Sublime Text 3 Build 3124 by distances on Thursday September 22, 2016 @03:00AM (#12555007)
But in this case it also works very well, I think. I know very few people willing to pay $70 for a text editor, but getting to try it out and verify that it's a really good text editor does change things somewhat.
Re:Sublime Text 3 Build 3124 by flukus on Thursday September 22, 2016 @03:13AM (#12555062)
I think plenty of us would pay for vim or emacs had history played out differently.
Re:Sublime Text 3 Build 3124 by baldfat on Thursday September 22, 2016 @07:38AM (#12556083)
Reaper a DAW (Digital Audio Workstation) is $65 and is free to evaluate and doesn't hinder usage. All other DAWs are betweem $250-$500++. I use to use one that cost $1,000 I use Reaper and thrown my money at them.

I do get mad when people don't give them money since I really appreciate the model.

Re:Sublime Text 3 Build 3124 by eli on Thursday September 22, 2016 @07:07AM (#12555955)
I don't want to get lost in semantics argument but "a free version that you're supposed to pay for if you continue to use it for extended periods" is exactly what I meant by shareware.

It's great that Sublime doesn't have strong DRM, but using the free version indefinitely is just as wrong as using a cracked version of Photoshop, IMHO.

Re:Sublime Text 3 Build 3124 by captainmuon on Thursday September 22, 2016 @04:48AM (#12555464)
Does it really bother you? Sometimes I'm concerned I'm a sociopath or similar because I don't care at all about the honor of complying with the license. If no one sees me pirate it and there are no consequences, who cares?

I do care about my fellow developer who wrote ST and seems a nice guy, which is a reason to pay... So maybe I'm not a sociopath after all.

Re:Sublime Text 3 Build 3124 by eli on Thursday September 22, 2016 @07:09AM (#12555962)
Yes, it bothers me and I don't really understand the distinction you're making: the developer you admire is the one who wrote that license that "requires" payment so you pay for it because they asked you to, not because anyone's watching.

And as someone running a business, it is a significant and unnecessary liability to use pirated or unlicensed software.

Re:Sublime Text 3 Build 3124 by bdcravens on Wednesday September 21, 2016 @10:49PM (#12553977)
There is no free version. The alert means you haven't paid for it.