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Re:Blind Apple engineer is transforming the tech world at on... by escapologybb on Sunday September 04, 2016 @01:00PM (#12425390)
There's a lot to gripe about with Apple, but not when it comes to accessibility. I am quadriplegic and usually that means putting up with some terrible subset of functions for any given application, tablet, phone or whatever but not with Apple. They've made it so that anything able-bodied person can do with an iPhone, I can do with their Switch Control interface which I use connected up to the chin controller on my wheelchair. It's all done via a little Bluetooth bridge called a Tecla shield and it's absolutely marvellous.

There really isn't another company in the world, certainly not another phone Manufacturer that has thought of people with motor skill problems in the way that Apple has. When people think of accessibility they think of the blind and that deaf, people with motor function problems are definitely the red-headed stepchildren of the accessibility software world.

Apple, pay your fng taxes but thank you very very very much for the accessibility software, my life would be much much poorer intellectually without it.

Re:Blind Apple engineer is transforming the tech world at on... by tezza on Sunday September 04, 2016 @01:24PM (#12425527)
Microsoft also deserves applause in the accessibility stakes.

My cousin's child is quadriplegic with cerebral palsy and a lot of his eye controlled tech runs on Windows

Re:Blind Apple engineer is transforming the tech world at on... by escapologybb on Sunday September 04, 2016 @02:25PM (#12425888)
I'm going to have to disagree with this quite a lot, your cousin's child is using I control tech running on Windows, not built into Windows.

That I control tech exists for every platform, but there is only OS X that you can take out of the box as a quadriplegic and with minimal help from a Designated Pair of Hands™ be up and running and independently messing around on HN.

Believe me, if I could buy a cheap laptop running Windows or Linux preferably and get the same user experience I get from OS X I would do it in a heartbeat. But in the past decade of trying, nothing comes close to OS X at the moment and even then OS X has only been this accessible for the past two or three additions.

All Microsoft did in this instance you're talking about is make sure that the drivers worked, and I trackers are essentially just mice as far as the computer is concerned, all of the clever stuff is done inside the eye tracker itself.

Just my two pence worth. But you know, It's 2 pence that I've earned through a decade of being a quadriplegic geek getting very annoyed at not being able to use my computer like everybody else.

I long for the day that I could use voice dictation software on Linux, any Linux distribution would be fine, then I could switch to some nice open source software and I would be a very happy pussycat. But none exists as far as I'm aware.

Edited to add: for clarity and excuse the odd grammatical mistake, Dragon doesn't make spelling mistakes but it does put the wrong word in the wrong place sometimes.

Re:Blind Apple engineer is transforming the tech world at on... by tezza on Sunday September 04, 2016 @05:15PM (#12426751)
Microsoft has good built in automation capabilities. Almost any UI element can be accessed via winapi ( SetWindowsHookEx https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms644990(VS.85).asp... etc )

This is much better for overall scriptability IMHO than AppleScript

Then StickyKeys etc are valiant attempts at a complex area with so many different user types

Re:Blind Apple engineer is transforming the tech world at on... by Retric on Sunday September 04, 2016 @10:48PM (#12427811)
You and I have different definitions of 'built in'. MS has chosen to have 3rd party deal with much of the accessibility functionality which is a reasonable choice for them, but it's not directly a windows feature. Want a screen reader use Jaws, etc etc.
Re:Blind Apple engineer is transforming the tech world at on... by astrange on Sunday September 04, 2016 @05:31PM (#12426813)
OS X has the same APIs (Accessibility). AppleScript doesn't use them, but VoiceOver and Xcode's UI testing do.
Re:Blind Apple engineer is transforming the tech world at on... by mwfunk on Monday September 05, 2016 @01:02AM (#12428215)
AppleScript can and does use the accessibility APIs to drive UIs, it's just not very well documented (like much of AppleScript in general :( ).

Pretty much anything used to drive a UI on OS X is going through the accessibility APIs to do so.

Re:Blind Apple engineer is transforming the tech world at on... by escapologybb on Monday September 05, 2016 @05:48AM (#12429187)
AppleScript has been the absolute saviour for me on multiple occasions, the amount of scripts I have that trigger at the click of one button is getting to be a bit outrageous.

So for instance I will have a button on my switch control on-screen keyboard, and when it's pressed it sends a request To If This Than That, which communicates with my LIFX lightbulbs and flashes all of them in the house blue notifying my carer that I need assistance. That's just one of many. I love AppleScript.

To be clear I control my computer with my right index finger which gives me left mouse click, a small reflective doton my glasses which gives the cursor movement and voice dictation software which enables you to leave comments on Hacker News.

Re:Blind Apple engineer is transforming the tech world at on... by tezza on Monday September 05, 2016 @08:28AM (#12429800)
Thanks for sharing your setup. It's been a pleasure to discuss the issue with you. You've inspired me to check out AppleScript a bit more in detail.

On Windows, Autohotkey is my goto for automation

Re:Blind Apple engineer is transforming the tech world at on... by Pxtl on Sunday September 04, 2016 @09:19PM (#12427564)
We just hired a 100% visually impaired student and he said that most MS apps provide enough metadata cleanly to play with screen reader apps like JAWS, and that the real bane of his existence was GTK-based applications on Windows.
Re:Blind Apple engineer is transforming the tech world at on... by blakeyrat on Sunday September 04, 2016 @09:34PM (#12427602)
I think GTK+ apps on Windows are the bane of everybody's existence. What a crappy windowing framework.
Re:Blind Apple engineer is transforming the tech world at on... by jscholes on Monday September 05, 2016 @06:55AM (#12429417)
> We just hired a 100% visually impaired student and he said that most MS apps provide enough metadata cleanly to play with screen reader apps like JAWS, and that the real bane of his existence was GTK-based applications on Windows.

Not just GTK. Qt, Java, Electron-based... on Windows at least, the only way to create a truly screen reader accessible app is to use native controls. And I mean native controls, via the Windows API, not just ones which look native. Qt has some academic accessibility support but it's practically unusable.

Ironically, given the article I'm commenting on, the situation is worse on OS X.

Re:Blind Apple engineer is transforming the tech world at on... by raverbashing on Sunday September 04, 2016 @01:46PM (#12425672)
I guess thank the ADA. Both Apple and MS don't want to be left outside of places because of it
Re:Blind Apple engineer is transforming the tech world at on... by cmdrfred on Sunday September 04, 2016 @02:07PM (#12425798)
"The ADA? What on earth could the ADA have to do with a PC making a beep? Well it turns out that at some point in the intervening 25 years, the Win32 Beep() was used for assistive technologies – in particular the sounds made when you enable the assistive technologies like StickyKeys were generated using the Beep() API. There are about 6 different assistive technology (AT) sounds built into windows, their implementation is plumbed fairly deep inside the win32k.sys driver.

But why does that matter? Well it turns out that many enterprises (both governments and corporations) have requirements that prevent them from purchasing equipment that lacks accessible technologies and that meant that you couldn’t sell computers that didn’t have beep hardware to those enterprises."

Source: https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/larryosterman/2010/01/04/wh... (search for ADA)

Re:Blind Apple engineer is transforming the tech world at on... by raverbashing on Sunday September 04, 2016 @02:58PM (#12426082)
I read that text too and that's what I was thinking when I made that comment
Re:Blind Apple engineer is transforming the tech world at on... by donw on Sunday September 04, 2016 @09:28PM (#12427583)
When I was working as a contractor for the federal government, I got to learn how to do accessibility testing on both desktop and mobile devices.

To echo your sentiment, Apple devices were far-and-away the easiest to use from an accessibility standpoint, both as a tester, and as a developer.

Re:Blind Apple engineer is transforming the tech world at on... by StavrosK on Sunday September 04, 2016 @02:18PM (#12425852)
A friend of mine is blind and I've heard him echo this sentiment. I tried TalkBack for Android a few months ago just to see how he uses his phone and it was a buggy piece of crap.
Re:Blind Apple engineer is transforming the tech world at on... by raldi on Sunday September 04, 2016 @11:13PM (#12427868)
Recently I was using a Mac without a mouse, and tried to figure out how to turn on "Mouse Keys", which lets the keyboard emulate the mouse. The problem is, the only way to do that is to tick a checkbox in System Preferences, and I couldn't figure it out way to check it with only a keyboard. Tab, arrow keys, nothing would move the cursor to the box so I could check it.

Anyone else want to give it a try?

Re:Blind Apple engineer is transforming the tech world at on... by function_seven on Sunday September 04, 2016 @11:25PM (#12427899)
Just did it. Cmd+Space to bring up Spotlight. Type "Syste" and hit [enter]. The search box in the top-right corner should be active. [Tab] to it if it's not. Type in "Mouse" and arrow down to "Make mouse and trackpad easier to use". Hit [enter]. Hit [Tab] twice to move focus to "Enable Mouse Keys". Spacebar.

I have a feeling that I got lucky. There's another setting under "Keyboard" > "Accessibility", at the bottom, called "Full Keyboard Access". Mine is set to "All controls". I have a feeling yours is set to "Text boxes and lists only", which may be the default.

So I am kinda proving your point here :)

Re:Blind Apple engineer is transforming the tech world at on... by raldi on Sunday September 04, 2016 @11:37PM (#12427945)
Indeed -- if it's set to the default (Text boxes and lists only), there seems to be no discoverable way to change the setting, and thus no discoverable way to turn on Mouse Keys.

(The non-discoverable way is to press Ctrl-Fn-F7; it's non-discoverable because the only place these instructions are shown is the Keyboard -> Shortcuts tab, but you can't get to that tab without a mouse.)

Re:Blind Apple engineer is transforming the tech world at on... by function_seven on Monday September 05, 2016 @12:08AM (#12428039)
Keyboard access is definitely something Windows does better than Mac, what with all the `[Alt],` shortcuts you can quickly chain together. My favorite: [Alt],e,s,v in Excel, for pasting values.
Re:Blind Apple engineer is transforming the tech world at on... by mjevans on Monday September 05, 2016 @01:52AM (#12428399)
You could probably be told that instruction over the phone... but knowing you needed to call it or what to call.

Very close Apple. Just a little more polish for your next update.

Re:Blind Apple engineer is transforming the tech world at on... by the_other on Monday September 05, 2016 @06:04AM (#12429240)
I've long thought that box should be checked by default (but I need it "on" so I would say that ;-) )
Re:Blind Apple engineer is transforming the tech world at on... by watmough on Monday September 05, 2016 @09:16AM (#12430079)
Anyone with mild RSI and a functioning TAB key would likely agree.
Re:Blind Apple engineer is transforming the tech world at on... by wingerlang on Sunday September 04, 2016 @11:28PM (#12427908)
Try doing this: http://osxdaily.com/2010/02/26/use-the-tab-key-to-switch-bet...

Then when I go to the panel, I tab and it only highlights the left-side of the portion. Confused me at first but after mashing some keys I found that you need to press up/down on the left page to select the "mouse portion" THEN tab again and it will go "into" the place with the mouse keys. Here's a gif http://imgur.com/a/SedKz.

Re:Blind Apple engineer is transforming the tech world at on... by raldi on Sunday September 04, 2016 @11:34PM (#12427935)
That's so weird -- everything's the same for me up until the Tab part. When I press Tab, nothing happens. "Mouse & Trackpad" just stays highlighted.

Edit: See nearby replies -- the reason you were able to do this is that you had previously changed a default setting which has no obvious way of being changed without a mouse.

Re:Blind Apple engineer is transforming the tech world at on... by wingerlang on Sunday September 04, 2016 @11:48PM (#12427977)
Yeah, I've had this enabled for years.
Re:Blind Apple engineer is transforming the tech world at on... by josso on Sunday September 04, 2016 @11:20PM (#12427887)
In System Preferences » Keyboard » Shortcuts you need to have enabled Full Keyboard Access. The shortcut to toggle it is (fn-)Control-F7. After that you can tab through all controls and navigate to the Mouse Keys checkbox and check that.
Re:Blind Apple engineer is transforming the tech world at on... by raldi on Sunday September 04, 2016 @11:44PM (#12427967)
Thanks -- this works! Too bad it's totally non-discoverable.
Re:Blind Apple engineer is transforming the tech world at on... by melling on Sunday September 04, 2016 @01:18PM (#12425486)
i'm disappointed that we haven't made more progress with voice interfaces. Many people are happy with the keyboard/mouse as their primary input devices but combined with subtle gestures like you might get with Google's Soli and we should get a better user interface for everyone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QNiZfSsPc0

Re:Blind Apple engineer is transforming the tech world at on... by gurkendoktor on Sunday September 04, 2016 @05:15PM (#12426753)
Good trackpads/touchpads with gestures aren't that far away from Soli, once you accept that people are lazy and don't want to fight gravity with their hands.
Re:Blind Apple engineer is transforming the tech world at on... by melling on Sunday September 04, 2016 @06:22PM (#12427006)
How's that going to work with VR?
Re:Blind Apple engineer is transforming the tech world at on... by kinleyd on Sunday September 04, 2016 @08:57PM (#12427513)
What an awesome thread. I am blown away, inspired.
Re:Blind Apple engineer is transforming the tech world at on... by hackuser on Sunday September 04, 2016 @05:22PM (#12426772)
> Apple, pay your fng taxes

Tim Cook says Apple is the U.S.'s largest taxpayer.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/business/wp/2016/08/13/2016...

Re:Blind Apple engineer is transforming the tech world at on... by joshschreuder on Sunday September 04, 2016 @05:59PM (#12426924)
Does that mean they should only have to pay enough to be considered the largest? Or perhaps they should pay what the legislation dictates, regardless of how much that is.
Re:Blind Apple engineer is transforming the tech world at on... by MichaelBurge on Sunday September 04, 2016 @06:01PM (#12426929)
They probably are paying what the legislation dictates, and no more. If they aren't, it's the IRS' job to enforce that and apply the appropriate penalties, not commenters on HN.
Re:Blind Apple engineer is transforming the tech world at on... by coldtea on Sunday September 04, 2016 @07:32PM (#12427236)
>If they aren't, it's the IRS' job to enforce that and apply the appropriate penalties, not commenters on HN.

If the IRS doesn't do its job because e.g legislators leave loopholes, or are in bed with big corps, then it's up to "commenters on HN" to call both on them. That's what being a citizen is about.

Re:Blind Apple engineer is transforming the tech world at on... by AlphaSite on Sunday September 04, 2016 @06:32PM (#12427036)
No one outside of the US cares, they should pay taxes in each country in which they deign to do business.
Re:Blind Apple engineer is transforming the tech world at on... by MBCook on Sunday September 04, 2016 @07:58PM (#12427325)
They did. Then the EU retroactively decided it wasn't enough. Even Ireland (the county the money is supposedly owed to) says it's ridiculous.
Re:Blind Apple engineer is transforming the tech world at on... by jpna66dd on Sunday September 04, 2016 @10:26PM (#12427758)
0.005% is what they paid in 2014 according to the EU Commission, giving them an unfair competitive advantage towards other companies who cannot afford to set up complex schemes to avoid paying taxes like them. A EU country can decide their own tax rate, but not favor a particular company over all the others.

http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-16-2923_en.htm

Re:Blind Apple engineer is transforming the tech world at on... by hackuser on Sunday September 04, 2016 @08:00PM (#12427331)
> Even Ireland (the county the money is supposedly owed to) says it's ridiculous.

Ireland is accused (and convicted) of giving illegal tax benefits to Apple. Of course they don't like the verdict.

Re:Blind Apple engineer is transforming the tech world at on... by randyrand on Sunday September 04, 2016 @10:13PM (#12427719)
the people of Ireland should be the ones responsible for how they tax their constituents.

It's crazy people support the EU telling a sovereign country how to tax their citizens.

of course, that's supposedly what they signed up for by joining the EU. it's no wonder countries want to leave it tho. who voluntarily decides to give up their soverignity?

Re:Blind Apple engineer is transforming the tech world at on... by hackuser on Monday September 05, 2016 @02:22AM (#12428480)
> who voluntarily decides to give up their soverignity?

Everyone who chooses not to live in anarchy; it's a very normal and healthy thing to do.

Groups of people cooperate to agree on rules that achieve situations far superior to anarchy, where might makes right and little progress is made. My various levels of localities "give up" sovereignty to national government, which "gives up" sovereignty to international institutions. My person "gives up" sovereignty to all of the above. That way we can coordinate things on a local, national, and international scale as needed, from taxes to trade to health care to nuclear disarmament.

In this case, Europeans felt the need to agree on rules to prevent a race to the bottom in tax benefits to corporations. Everyone benefits by following these rules.

Re:Blind Apple engineer is transforming the tech world at on... by madeofpalk on Sunday September 04, 2016 @07:24PM (#12427214)
FWIW, he say's Apple is the worlds largest tax payer.

But perhaps they should still be paying more - but that's a discussion for another time.

Re:Blind Apple engineer is transforming the tech world at on... by nononosisisi on Sunday September 04, 2016 @02:41PM (#12425975)
I'm pretty sure they are paying their taxes. To pay the minimum allowed by law is their fiduciary duty.
Re:Blind Apple engineer is transforming the tech world at on... by plesner on Sunday September 04, 2016 @03:06PM (#12426127)
It's a common misapprehension but it's just not correct. There is no such thing as a fiduciary duty to minimize taxes. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiduciary#Fiduciary_duties_und....
Re:Blind Apple engineer is transforming the tech world at on... by loeg on Sunday September 04, 2016 @03:20PM (#12426207)
Best interest of the company usually includes producing the most income for shareholders, which involves minimizing expenses. Taxes are an expense. It may not be written down in stone but it follows logically from other principles.
Re:Blind Apple engineer is transforming the tech world at on... by plesner on Sunday September 04, 2016 @04:55PM (#12426673)
If what you're saying is true then it's easy to provide evidence: just find a case where a company has been successfully sued for not minimizing their taxes sufficiently. I've never heard of such a case and I can't imagine how it could exist and not be mentioned every time a company receives criticism for evading taxes.
Re:Blind Apple engineer is transforming the tech world at on... by Spivak on Sunday September 04, 2016 @06:01PM (#12426927)
What you're saying is ridiculous. No company would be sued for overpaying their taxes but their accountants would certainly be fired.

Assuming you're from the US, every year you have the choice to take the standard deduction or itemize. Do you ever feel guilty for choosing the option that lessens your tax burden? Why would you hold a company to a higher standard?

If you think that companies should pay more taxes, then push your government to close the loopholes they're using and/or raise taxes. If you're counting on people to 'do the right thing' when they're directly incentivized not to you're going get nothing but disappointment.

Re:Blind Apple engineer is transforming the tech world at on... by plesner on Sunday September 04, 2016 @10:43PM (#12427799)
The original comment said it was their fiduciary duty to minimize taxes. It's not - exploiting loopholes is a choice, not a legal obligation.

You're talking about incentives which is a different discussion. There are incentives that go the other way too: evading taxes looks bad, it's bad for business if society crumbles for lack of revenue, morally it's wrong to benefit from infrastructure, education, etc and not contribute back. But that's not the point I was addressing.

Re:Blind Apple engineer is transforming the tech world at on... by JumpCrisscross on Monday September 05, 2016 @12:41AM (#12428146)
> just find a case where a company has been successfully sued for not minimizing their taxes sufficiently

If I owned a company overpaying taxes I'd seek to have them acquired (priced using a tax-efficient income assumption) or management replaced. Suing would be unlikely.

That said, I agree with your general point that no fiduciary obligation is likely violated. It's just bad business.

Re:Blind Apple engineer is transforming the tech world at on... by seanmcdirmid on Sunday September 04, 2016 @03:33PM (#12426279)
If you believe in natural selection, then those companies that do better at minimizing taxes are more likely to survive than those that don't, meaning the tax minimizing companies we see now are simply the result of a natural progression.
Re:Blind Apple engineer is transforming the tech world at on... by escape_goat on Sunday September 04, 2016 @04:24PM (#12426521)
I know that you are saying something that sounds true to you, so I am going to walk through the logic so that you can re-evaluate how much attention you are paying to critical thinking on these matters.

What you're proposing is referred to as 'Social Darwinism'. In this application it is used in a pseudo-logical fashion to beg the question entirely and falsely imply the justification of a lemma.

Your argument is as follows. "If you believe in (1) [natural selection applied to companies], then (2) [causal hypothesis: '1' leads to 'type'], meaning that (3) the [companies of type] we see now are the result of [natural selection applied to companies]."

I hope it is apparent when you look carefully that the 'companies of type' we are seeing now would be simply the result of natural selection in any case, that there is no support for the causal hypothesis presented, and that the causal hypothesis is not in fact a logically necessary implication of the original lemma.

The reason that this might feel meaningful, rather than be at first glance a tangle of errors, is that it involves the juncture between a hypothesis for which you feel you have evidence (and do!) with a core belief. Your hypothesis: "companies that do better at minimizing taxes are more likely to survive than those that don't." Your belief: "markets are efficient and the best economy arises when companies are allowed to compete without interference."

The difficulty here is in the confusion of the two intellectual contexts. Natural selection is a descriptive theory about how what is came to be. Market libertarianism is a prescriptive theory about how what should be can come to be. They are not interrelated. Under condition of Soviet Market, natural selection will still exist. Even if regulatory capture helps a company survive instead of perish, libertarian theory still advocates against it.

If you believe in natural selection applied to companies, then what we have here is the natural and almost predictable extinction event of those companies that over-optimized on minimizing taxes.

However, the belief in "natural selection applied to companies" is essentially meaningless once you decouple it from action or advocacy; coupled to advocacy, it is incoherent. It inherits absolutely no scientific justification or intellectual rigour from biology.

Re:Blind Apple engineer is transforming the tech world at on... by billforsternz on Sunday September 04, 2016 @06:09PM (#12426961)
I think what you are saying is that minimizing taxes as a financial optimization strategy has nothing to do with natural selection.
Re:Blind Apple engineer is transforming the tech world at on... by escape_goat on Sunday September 04, 2016 @09:26PM (#12427580)
The popular term is 'not even wrong'. There is a premise that companies existing and developing strategies in a competitive economic environment can best be thought about in terms of 'natural selection'. This premise is innately flawed, and has a long history of being misapplied for ideological reasons. It is a completely pointless exercise when the ideological cachet of 'Nature' is removed from consideration. Companies do not evolve on the basis of heredity. Natural selection teaches us nothing about them.

Minimizing taxes as a financial optimization strategy have everything to do with competitive advantage. If we were genuinely looking to take lessons from biological history, it would teach us that subsequently perishing as a consequence of that adaptation is entirely natural and normal. 'Natural selection' is whatever happens. It is often conflated with various notions of progress, merit, laissez-faire, et cetera, but seldom honestly.

Re:Blind Apple engineer is transforming the tech world at on... by seanmcdirmid on Sunday September 04, 2016 @09:42PM (#12427617)
No scientific claims were made in my comment. In the social sciences, including economics, the actors are much more difficult to study in controlled settings, so statements tend to be much more qualitative.

Selection bias is a real thing, however. For example, "All politicians are corrupt" doesn't mean they all are, but given corrupt as a competitive advantage, the ones that weren't corrupt are not successful enough to be known. You don't have to be corrupt to be a politician, but you might have to to be a successful one. Businesses are much more like that given hyper competitive environments.