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Re:Google+ Redesigned by ChuckMcM on Tuesday August 30, 2016 @01:19PM (#12391976)
And now we have come full circle. The new Google+ looks like crap in my web browser because literally over 50% of the page is useless grey pixels.

The reason is that the page design assumes its on a mobile phone which its somewhat unique tall portrait orientation. And sure enough, looking at the page on my phone it looks a bit flat but it works well.

So now we are in a place in the web where browser users get the crappy UX experience because someone spent all their time focused on the other community and really didn't bother to make their pages responsive to both.

Re:Google+ Redesigned by notatoad on Tuesday August 30, 2016 @01:26PM (#12392035)
the individual post pages contain a lot of whitespace, yes. But text looks better at a narrower width. what do you want them to do, fill up the gutters with ads just to colour your pixels?

the main index page wraps nicely to multiple columns when you're on a larger screen.

Re:Google+ Redesigned by ChuckMcM on Tuesday August 30, 2016 @01:38PM (#12392144)
If I were designing it I would have it either switch to multiple columns when the size of the white space got too large, or I would have the columns widen with the page.

The latter results in a sort of 'tweetlike' appearance for a lot of G+ posts as they are quite short, the former makes it more 'newspaper' style and introduces the question of how you move from the bottom left to the top right. If you do it with the same posting it makes scrolling challenging, if you do it with multiple postings it makes the user scroll up and down to see the top and bottom.

Then again, there is a really useful layout that folks have been using forever where you put summaries on the left and content expands in boxes on the right. But then it looks just like gmail or something, except that is exactly what it is "group email". Gooogle plus seems confused about what it is, is it twitter ? is it facebook? is it usenet? is it email? Fix its multiple personality disorder and the design will fall out of that naturally.

Re:Google+ Redesigned by Navarr on Tuesday August 30, 2016 @02:01PM (#12392347)
What the parent poster was asking - since this link is a single-post page, is what you're expecting to fill the space.

On the main stream, you have multiple columns of data. On a single post, what should be to either side?

Probably nothing.

Re:Google+ Redesigned by dbgllm on Tuesday August 30, 2016 @03:08PM (#12392963)
You widen the single-post, maybe add inner padding, increase line-height, font-size. It just looks weird otherwise, the post is too narrow. Make it look like its comfortable in its environment instead of very shy and afraid to take any space.
Re:Google+ Redesigned by ChuckMcM on Tuesday August 30, 2016 @03:19PM (#12393045)
I would prefer the margins narrow to no more than 10% of the page width. The left margin already has some navigation in it, fine, the right margin doesn't need to exist. If that means blank space below the article I'm ok with that. Having to scroll down to read an artificially skinny single post is, in my opinion, bad UX.
Re:Google+ Redesigned by klodolph on Tuesday August 30, 2016 @05:38PM (#12394141)
I find it difficult to read articles that are wider. There are a number of readability studies that back this up, it seems that 50-75 characters (including spaces) is a sweet spot for readability, and that things get terrible pretty quickly once you start increasing the line length. This design is 80 characters wide or so, putting it at the upper limit of reasonable width.

I would rather have to scroll down on an article that I can actually read, rather than fit the article on my screen but be unable to read it well.

Wide text only really works for very short text of a few lines. Long text comments on HN tend to suck pretty badly with wide browser windows.

Re:Google+ Redesigned by truth_sentinell on Tuesday August 30, 2016 @02:20PM (#12392530)
Maybe ads? But I got adblock, so I don't know
Re:Google+ Redesigned by gk1 on Tuesday August 30, 2016 @03:04PM (#12392926)
You would rather see ads than whitespace?
Re:Google+ Redesigned by tehbeard on Wednesday August 31, 2016 @03:57AM (#12396683)
Maybe recommended posts instead?
Re:Google+ Redesigned by dredmorbius on Wednesday August 31, 2016 @05:00AM (#12396943)
If I could take your suggestions in a slightly different direction, what I'm finding I prefer for textual content is:

1. Single-pane designs. Multiple columns, especially online, for main content text, is too hard to follow. In a cards-type presentation (e.g., G+) a 2-column display somewhat works, but 3 columns to me simply becomes noise. I think a multi-column (newspaper-like) display might work if you had explicit height alignments, see a site like http://freshnews.org, very old-school, but which essentially has a 3-column grid, and compare with, say, the NYTimes desktop layout. Note that new column heights aren't simply random, but tend to be lined up across the page, or at least a section of it.

2. A flexible main-body text width, but maximising at about 35-45 em. Look up "Edward Morbius's motherfucking web page" on CodePen.io for my interpretation of a popular meme, and pretty much how I style my own content. It's a very minimal ruleset. Pocket and Readability are good models.

3. A paginated, two-page-up mode, for desktop / widescreen mode. See many eBook readers or the Internet Archive's Bookreader in 2-up mode. This gives focus on a single page at a time, but the ability to reference across two pages. I use a tablet in portrait (1-up) mode a lot, and prefer being able to reference back and forth across two pages. A fixed pagination also feeds my spatial memory for where something was on a page. Pocket has a paginated mode, but it's dynamic, changing to wherever you've scrolled a page. I dislike that.

4. Except for the very narrowest display, at least a minimum margin on sides. I'll usually set 1-2em for even a small-factor mobile device, and prefer 4-5em for most widths. As text body reaches 45em, center the main body. Text that runs flush to the screen edge, or is sharply asymmetric on the page, is quite annoying.

5. Use those margins. I've written a sidenote style which puts annotations in the margin, with a dynamic repositioning for narrower widths (or rather the inverse, using Mobile First design). I also push illustrations / images into the right margin to allow text to wrap, but still leave a comfortable width, around inline images.

My problem with a "summaries on the side" display (sidebar) is that the summaries are so often entirely gratuitous and inappropriate. Single-column is far calmer. I move sidebars to headers and footers (through my own site-specific CSS rewrites), or simply disable them entirely.

Re:Google+ Redesigned by zeveb on Tuesday August 30, 2016 @02:32PM (#12392646)
> But text looks better at a narrower width. what do you want them to do, fill up the gutters with ads just to colour your pixels?

True story: I'm completely capable of narrowing my browser window if I want narrower text. The site I'm reading doesn't actually need to do that for me!

Re:Google+ Redesigned by bananaoomarang on Tuesday August 30, 2016 @03:08PM (#12392967)
This is a very 'computer programmer' mindset. Most people want an appealing UI out of the box, less need to configure at the expense of configurability.
Re:Google+ Redesigned by ashark on Tuesday August 30, 2016 @03:21PM (#12393062)
I'd bet a fair percentage of computer users are uncomfortable resizing windows and rarely/never resize. And a smaller but still significant set is probably unaware that it's possible or how to do it.
Re:Google+ Redesigned by cmurf on Tuesday August 30, 2016 @03:27PM (#12393119)
Isn't the browser experience on Chrome OS pretty much full screen?
Re:Google+ Redesigned by hnal943 on Tuesday August 30, 2016 @04:34PM (#12393638)
It is a windowed environment, same as any other.
Re:Google+ Redesigned by cmurf on Tuesday August 30, 2016 @05:16PM (#12393987)
Sure, but in practice I think the idea is you run the browser full screen most of the time.
Re:Google+ Redesigned by PhasmaFelis on Tuesday August 30, 2016 @10:25PM (#12395538)
Huh? Chrome's fullscreen functionality is the same as any other browser's. And fullscreen hides tabs, so it's definitely not something you want to do most of the time.
Re:Google+ Redesigned by KirinDave on Tuesday August 30, 2016 @05:22PM (#12394021)
No, it's by default a single window experience. You can get it to do standard, classical, utterly terrible overlapping windows. But it's not the default experience.

Not that it matters, really. Narrowing the field is just good practice for readability.

Re:Google+ Redesigned by CamperBob2 on Tuesday August 30, 2016 @05:35PM (#12394124)
Those people should be using tablets, not computers.

Edit: if you disagree, what the heck are you doing on a site called "Hacker News?" Comment, don't just vote.

Re:Google+ Redesigned by euyyn on Tuesday August 30, 2016 @09:12PM (#12395208)
Because you asked for reasons:

The context of this conversation is how a product should have been done. The devs that make that product want people to use it.

You're suggesting that they ignore part of that user base, based on a claim that people shouldn't browse the internet however is most convenient for them. E.g. by using a computer they already have instead of a tablet they might not. All parts of that reasoning are ridiculous.

Re:Google+ Redesigned by spankalee on Tuesday August 30, 2016 @04:54PM (#12393813)
And my browser is always fullscreen with lots of tabs. I'd rather have a readable width article by default.
Re:Google+ Redesigned by euyyn on Tuesday August 30, 2016 @03:53PM (#12393318)
I use tabs in my browser and would never resize the window to accomplish that, as it'd resize the other tabs too. I could detach the tab and resize the new window if I really really wanted to, but thankfully I won't have to bother :)
Re:Google+ Redesigned by zeveb on Tuesday August 30, 2016 @06:44PM (#12394561)
If all websites respected the browser width one has set, then one could always have the browser take up half the screen.

That's how I did it back in the 90s and early 2000s. I'm not certain when I was forced to start widescreening my browser, but I think it was roughly around the time I got a widescreen (ironically enough, I got more horizontal space and was forced to waste it immediately).

I'm not bitter …

Re:Google+ Redesigned by srtjstjsj on Tuesday August 30, 2016 @11:54PM (#12395917)
I can do a lot of things, but I'd rather not have to fiddle with my window sizes to workaround broken layout.
Re:Google+ Redesigned by guelo on Tuesday August 30, 2016 @03:13PM (#12393004)
Comparing it with Medium, which is a nice readability yardstick, it's about 200 pixels narrower and font-size is about 4px smaller.
Re:Google+ Redesigned by lmm on Tuesday August 30, 2016 @02:39PM (#12392707)
Allow it to widen. I have my browser wide for a reason. If I wanted my browser narrow, I'd make it narrow.
Re:Google+ Redesigned by icebraining on Tuesday August 30, 2016 @05:44PM (#12394179)
I have my browser wide because most sites have a ton of crap on the sides. If they were clean like G+ I wouldn't have it wide.
Re:Google+ Redesigned by fnordsensei on Tuesday August 30, 2016 @02:47PM (#12392771)
But at 13px, the text could be a bit bigger, and the column correspondingly a bit wider in my opinion. Although I agree with you in principle.
Re:Google+ Redesigned by ocdtrekkie on Tuesday August 30, 2016 @01:28PM (#12392056)
People rant a bit on the new design, but they bury the lead on the most important difference. The "classic" G+ site was so terribly written and bloated that it took an AVERAGE of TWELVE SECONDS to fully load the page. (On single-threaded Firefox, this actually seized up the whole UI of the browser, too.) The classic G+ site was an awful, unredeemable pile of trash.
Re:Google+ Redesigned by KirinDave on Tuesday August 30, 2016 @05:24PM (#12394042)
I experienced much faster load times. Perhaps it is because I use Chrome and Edge?

I know Firefox was terribly slow there (like it is with many script-driven websites), but I never dug into why.

Re:Google+ Redesigned by scholia on Tuesday August 30, 2016 @05:58PM (#12394286)
Only a very bad person would put the crappy performance of Google products in non-Google browsers down to anything nefarious. Really, they just don't care ;-)
Re:Google+ Redesigned by KirinDave on Saturday September 03, 2016 @11:21AM (#12419512)
I... don't understand why you'd project that viewpoint on me. It's quite a bit easier to imagine that there are things Chrome or Edge are doing that are not as well optimized on Firefox (or vice versa, of course).

There's 3 separate engines all with different tradeoffs.

Re:Google+ Redesigned by scholia on Sunday September 04, 2016 @10:13AM (#12424431)
I wasn't, I was making a joke.

Have you used Firefox in the past couple of years?

Even if it were slow (which it isn't), it's not doing surveillance for money. If you really want a Chromium-based browser, you could always use Vivaldi or Opera or take your pick of many others.

Re:Google+ Redesigned by KirinDave on Tuesday September 06, 2016 @02:07PM (#12437973)
It feels very, very slow. Very slow.

Glacially slow.

And the recent buzz about a concurrent engine shows how much slower. When you have 300%+ headroom just by uncoupling your execution strategy from an unnecessary global lock no one else has, you are not "speeding up". You are "catching up."

Re:Google+ Redesigned by scholia on Sunday September 11, 2016 @12:25PM (#12474095)
Really? Perhaps you have an odd set-up. I find Firefox feels as fast or faster, especially since I often have 100-600 tabs.

Benchmarks suggest there isn't much in it....

http://hothardware.com/reviews/web-browser-performance-compa...

Re:Google+ Redesigned by KirinDave on Tuesday September 13, 2016 @10:15AM (#12488404)
I have a Surface Book, a recent Macbook Pro, and homebuilt Windows machine with components sourced from 2015's crop with an eye towards performance. Even if it were the case that I was using older hardware, this wouldn't exactly be a good story for Firefox.

Firefox is sluggish on every machine, and consistently feels like the slower paint. I understand the synthetic benchmarks are not so distant, but we don't interact with browsers at the level of Sunspider benchmarks. We interact at the level of full dom renders to screen, first clicks available, scrolling and repainting performance, tab open and close time, and startup time.

Firefox has never been a positive experience for me on those on anything but the very oldest of Linux boxes, and quite frankly I've written off the entire X11/Linux desktop environment as a tire fire with people trapped inside.

Re:Google+ Redesigned by ocdtrekkie on Tuesday August 30, 2016 @06:27PM (#12394467)
Chrome does a really good job hiding that the page is still loading, because it's multithreaded and doesn't cause the UI to seize while the page is loading. Firefox is FINALLY starting to work on this.

Also, note the 12 second time is what the Google+ team clocked as average. Yours may have been faster. Others, were even slower.

Re:Google+ Redesigned by Grishnakh on Tuesday August 30, 2016 @05:00PM (#12393862)
This is ridiculous. With a company the size of Google, is it really that hard to simply make two totally different UIs, one optimized for mobile touchscreen devices and the other optimized for desktop PCs? Where did this utterly stupid idea come from that we need to have a single UI for everything? It's not like they even need to look all that different, but they do need to be tailored for the screen size and aspect ratio as well as the mode of interaction (mouse pointer+keyboard vs. touchscreen). This really shouldn't be that hard.
Re:Google+ Redesigned by tdkl on Tuesday August 30, 2016 @06:19PM (#12394421)
From Matias Duarte, their head designer and inspired by shitshow called Metro by Microsoft.
Re:Google+ Redesigned by kagamine on Wednesday August 31, 2016 @02:29AM (#12396371)
Surprised to find out Google even employ a designer at all. They are still doing basic UX mistakes like this from the new G+ settings page:

1. Allow viewers to download my photos and videos shared on Google+

2. Don't feature my publicly shared Google+ photos as background images on Google products and services

Slider 1 is "on" for yes, slider 2 is "off" for yes. Just rephrase the second statement to a positive from a negative and both sliders will be "agree" to the left and "Disagree" to the right.

Then expand one of the expander arrows in the Notifications section. The first line " Occasional updates about Google+ activity and friend suggestions" isn't a question at all, so I'm not sure if I'm agreeing or not. Most of the other statements start with "Show...", but this one is just a blank statement. No consistency at all. With Posts expanded, the top slider button looks like it will be an 'everything on' or everything off' button, but it isn't. So it seems to not have a relationship to the any of the expandable subcategories below it. The "People" expando/expander has only a single button, so no need to expand it all all, then. And so on.

Google do interaction design like an engineer with an ego.

Re:Google+ Redesigned by tdkl on Wednesday August 31, 2016 @08:37AM (#12397804)
> Surprised to find out Google even employ a designer at all.

Oh definitely and it seems they've taken over the wheel [1] and went into rage mode with Material design.

[1] http://www.theverge.com/2013/1/24/3904134/google-redesign-ho...

Re:Google+ Redesigned by anon1385 on Wednesday August 31, 2016 @03:33AM (#12396573)
I expect they tested the wording of those two questions to find the combination that gives them the most "engagement".

Google interaction design is more scam artist than engineer.

Re:Google+ Redesigned by varjag on Tuesday August 30, 2016 @05:05PM (#12393893)
G+ seems to be in its Google Reader phase now, when the behemoth infamously didn't have a couple guys to spare for the product coasting to obsolescence.

It's quite possible there's not that many people working on it now.

Re:Google+ Redesigned by rasz_pl on Tuesday August 30, 2016 @07:23PM (#12394761)
Its hard to dedicate people to less popular/profitable tasks when recruiting takes 6 months and expects post doc level of CS knowledge.
Re:Google+ Redesigned by Grishnakh on Wednesday August 31, 2016 @11:53AM (#12399205)
This is an excellent point here; I should have thought of this myself since I even went through one of their ridiculous phone interviews.

You don't need someone with post-doc CS expertise to do mundane, basic coding, and someone that advanced wouldn't want to work on the unpopular, "boring" tasks anyway.

Re:Google+ Redesigned by jdp23 on Tuesday August 30, 2016 @06:26PM (#12394462)
Totally agree. One of G+'s advantages over FB when they launched was that it was better on a laptop screen. Not only haven't they built on that, they've regressed.
Re:Google+ Redesigned by scholia on Tuesday August 30, 2016 @05:50PM (#12394228)
Agreed. It's interesting to compare with Facebook's web layout. The timeline column isn't much wider, but Facebook fills the extra space with information. (Menu, Trending stories and ads etc, friends' activities.)

I'm generally in favor of a wider column because then the in-line images are bigger. And in either case, I don't see why the column width shouldn't be adjustable.

Of course, since I stopped using G+ years ago, I have no reason to care....

Re:Google+ Redesigned by drusepth on Wednesday August 31, 2016 @10:12AM (#12398416)
>Agreed. It's interesting to compare with Facebook's web layout. The timeline column isn't much wider, but Facebook fills the extra space with information. (Menu, Trending stories and ads etc, friends' activities.)

Perhaps there's a correlation to my preference to G+'s layout, but one of the first things I did when I signed back up for FB was make a userscript to remove all that noise. My FB now looks like http://i.imgur.com/Vd6e6sh.png

I think it looks so much better single-column, personally (though I use the 3-column layout on G+).

Re:Google+ Redesigned by dmix on Tuesday August 30, 2016 @07:26PM (#12394771)
For an experiment I opened up the dev editor in Chrome and changed the CSS of the content blocks/cards so the max-width was ~700px instead of 530px and it looked better. The content expanded just fine in a larger form so I'm sure it could go bigger.

I'm not sure why they chose such a small default width for desktop.

Re:Google+ Redesigned by scholia on Tuesday August 30, 2016 @09:14PM (#12395216)
Great idea. I assume that could be offered as an extension for the non-computerate, but I don't expect G+ has anything like Facebook's share of the non-computerate audience....
Re:Google+ Redesigned by CommanderData on Tuesday August 30, 2016 @06:34PM (#12394507)
I don't like Material design on desktops. On mobile it works well and I enjoy the experience. On a high res desktop on or above 1080 I feel it just seems lacking.
Re:Google+ Redesigned by mike-cardwell on Tuesday August 30, 2016 @06:37PM (#12394523)
Only 50%? Luxury. I'm sat here with a 40 inch monitor at 3840x2160 and the page looks ridiculous.
Re:Google+ Redesigned by chadgeidel on Tuesday August 30, 2016 @01:39PM (#12392150)
I haven't seen it myself (there are images elsewhere in this thread). I don't quite understand why a multi-column "responsive" design isn't more widely used. It seems a no-brainer for a site like this. Something like TweetDeck (if one chooses).
Re:Google+ Redesigned by simplexion on Tuesday August 30, 2016 @07:51PM (#12394885)
My monitor in portrait orientation looks great :)
Re:Google+ Redesigned by Alex3917 on Tuesday August 30, 2016 @02:05PM (#12392386)
> So now we are in a place in the web where browser users get the crappy UX experience

The new Wells Fargo site is almost a parody of this. It's like trying to use a website in the crappy Xcode iPhone simulator.

Re:Google+ Redesigned by webwielder2 on Tuesday August 30, 2016 @02:34PM (#12392664)
What's crappy about the iPhone simulator?
Re:Google+ Redesigned by stevenwiles on Wednesday August 31, 2016 @02:57PM (#12400579)
UX experience?
Re:Google+ Redesigned by ChuckMcM on Wednesday August 31, 2016 @05:27PM (#12401623)
It's experience squared! :-)