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Re:The Strange Birth and Long Life of Unix (2011) by digi_owl on Wednesday June 08, 2016 @11:57PM (#11867447)
I suspect unix at this point in time is a "my grandfathers axe" kind of thing.

The concepts are there, and a lineage may be traced, but little of the original parts still exists.

This because the basic concepts that define unix allows it to be modular and adaptable.

Re:The Strange Birth and Long Life of Unix (2011) by bigger_cheese on Thursday June 09, 2016 @12:16AM (#11867505)
Neal Stephenson's analogy from 'In the Beginning was the Command Line' is pretty good:

"Unix, by contrast, is not so much a product as it is a painstakingly compiled oral history of the hacker subculture. It is our Gilgamesh epic.

What made old epics like Gilgamesh so powerful and so long-lived was that they were living bodies of narrative that many people knew by heart, and told over and over again--making their own personal embellishments whenever it struck their fancy. The bad embellishments were shouted down, the good ones picked up by others, polished, improved, and, over time, incorporated into the story. Likewise, Unix is known, loved, and understood by so many hackers that it can be re-created from scratch whenever someone needs it."

Re:The Strange Birth and Long Life of Unix (2011) by tapan_k on Thursday June 09, 2016 @04:15AM (#11868173)
Here's one from the book The Art of UNIX Programming[0]: "The Unix philosophy is bottom-up and not top-down. It is pragmatic and grounded in experience."

[0] http://www.amazon.com/UNIX-Programming-Addison-Wesley-Profes...

Re:The Strange Birth and Long Life of Unix (2011) by vram22 on Thursday June 09, 2016 @03:54PM (#11871865)
That book - TAOUP - is quite good, though written in ESR's typical style (somewhat heavy and maybe overuse of relatively complex and less-used words).

One concept or principle mentioned in the book - the X Windows concept - of "provide mechanism, not policy" [1] - is, IMO, one of the reasons for Unix's longevity and success, even as it has morphed through various versions - from the original Bell Labs ones through Sun, HP, IBM's versions, and then Linux, the BSDs, etc., and up to Android and Mac OS X and iOS. I commented somewhere recently on a blog post about this.

[1] To make it clear, the principle name is slightly misleading. It does not mean "don't provide at all". It just means, let the lower layers of a software stack (such as X Windows) provide only the mechanism, and leave it to higher layers (such as, say, KDE or GNOME), to decide the policy.

Wikipedia article:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_mechanism_and_po...

Re:The Strange Birth and Long Life of Unix (2011) by emmelaich on Thursday June 09, 2016 @08:06AM (#11868806)
Predating those two are:

UNIX as literature http://theody.net/elements.html

Life with UNIX by Don Libes http://minnie.tuhs.org/Archive/Documentation/Books/Life_with... (from the author's website)

Re:The Strange Birth and Long Life of Unix (2011) by smhenderson on Thursday June 09, 2016 @04:14PM (#11872012)
I'm only part way through the 1st chapter but the Don Libes book is quite good. Having been written in 1989 it's an interesting perspective of Unix before Linux.

Thanks for sharing!

Re:The Strange Birth and Long Life of Unix (2011) by vram22 on Friday June 10, 2016 @03:27PM (#11879257)
Started reading the Don Libes book, good stuff, brings back memories of my Unix work / days; thanks for sharing.
Re:The Strange Birth and Long Life of Unix (2011) by digi_owl on Thursday June 09, 2016 @02:15PM (#11871223)
> "The Unix philosophy is bottom-up and not top-down. It is pragmatic and grounded in experience."

Something that seems to be lost on a solid portion of the current custodians of that legacy...

Re:The Strange Birth and Long Life of Unix (2011) by sigill on Thursday June 09, 2016 @03:32AM (#11868063)
Unix history certainly has aspects of the "grandfather's axe". Few users of unixoid systems today are running original 70ies Unix code.

But Unix is not just code. The concepts introduced by Unix - or at least the flavor given to certain concepts - lives on to this day. Basically all of the userspace-kernel interface, the system calls, are still there and work in largely the same way. These concepts and interfaces are parts of the axe too and they haven't been replaced.

Re:The Strange Birth and Long Life of Unix (2011) by Zardoz84 on Thursday June 09, 2016 @10:35AM (#11869619)
C is the language of the virtual machine know as Unix.
Re:The Strange Birth and Long Life of Unix (2011) by simonh on Thursday June 09, 2016 @09:23AM (#11869174)
I think being a Unix is analogous to being a member of the set of axes, rather than any specific unix implementation or install, which would be equivalent to a specific axe.
Re:The Strange Birth and Long Life of Unix (2011) by avn2109 on Thursday June 09, 2016 @10:48AM (#11869717)
"... Unix is not just an operating system, but also a style of approaching problems."

[0] http://catb.org/esr/writings/unix-koans/returning.html

Re:The Strange Birth and Long Life of Unix (2011) by ktRolster on Thursday June 09, 2016 @02:03AM (#11867811)
"The API is more important than the implementation." If you extend the definition of API to include things like standard command line tools, etc
Re:The Strange Birth and Long Life of Unix (2011) by jrcii on Thursday June 09, 2016 @09:15AM (#11869127)
If I'm not mistaken there's still a lot of the original Unix code in the BSD distros, but I haven't studied it enough to be sure of that.
Re:The Strange Birth and Long Life of Unix (2011) by uudecode on Thursday June 09, 2016 @11:47AM (#11870169)
Not sure about "original" as in AT&T, but certainly lots of files going back to the 80's and 90's. Lots of Sun's legacy to be found.
Re:The Strange Birth and Long Life of Unix (2011) by rdiddly on Thursday June 09, 2016 @01:09AM (#11867669)
The Linus myth makes an appearance. Nobody's heard of GNU.
Re:The Strange Birth and Long Life of Unix (2011) by umanwizard on Thursday June 09, 2016 @01:13AM (#11867680)
Yeah, it's mind-blowing that a guy who refers to himself as a "UNIX Historian" doesn't mention Stallman even once.
Re:The Strange Birth and Long Life of Unix (2011) by cperciva on Thursday June 09, 2016 @01:19AM (#11867694)
Maybe because GNU's, uhh, Not Unix?
Re:The Strange Birth and Long Life of Unix (2011) by umanwizard on Thursday June 09, 2016 @02:43AM (#11867927)
Well, the author claims that Linus Torvalds single-handedly created an operating system; which simply isn't true, regardless of whether GNU is Unix.
Re:The Strange Birth and Long Life of Unix (2011) by olalonde on Thursday June 09, 2016 @03:18AM (#11868019)
Didn't Linus develop the first versions of the Linux kernel by himself?
Re:The Strange Birth and Long Life of Unix (2011) by creshal on Thursday June 09, 2016 @03:24AM (#11868038)
A kernel does not make an operating system, you need an userland for it to be useful.

And that was GNU.

Re:The Strange Birth and Long Life of Unix (2011) by olalonde on Thursday June 09, 2016 @03:48AM (#11868111)
Ah ok, I see what you mean. I've always thought of "operating system" as the kernel itself (and some set of user land tools as a "distribution") but I can see how it could be interpreted differently.
Re:The Strange Birth and Long Life of Unix (2011) by umanwizard on Thursday June 09, 2016 @03:50AM (#11868118)
I mean, what counts as the "operating system" is not the point here. It's that, whatever "UNIX" is (operating system, distribution, or whatever you want to call it), is more than just the kernel, and can't meaningfully be said to be replicated by Linux without mentioning GNU.
Re:The Strange Birth and Long Life of Unix (2011) by mikekchar on Thursday June 09, 2016 @05:06AM (#11868286)
I have found the easiest way for people to understand it is: Android runs a Linux kernel. The systems we often call "Linux" systems are really Linux + GNU + X to get to the same kind of place.
Re:The Strange Birth and Long Life of Unix (2011) by the_why_of_y on Thursday June 09, 2016 @02:22PM (#11871278)
That is an interpretation at odds with UNIX history, and basically only applicable to Linux, which is the exception to the rule. I suggest reading this article, it's written for FreeBSD but applies very similarly to Solaris etc.

https://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/rants/bsd4linux/03

Re:The Strange Birth and Long Life of Unix (2011) by gohrt on Thursday June 09, 2016 @01:55AM (#11867789)
Linux Isn't No UniX either.
Re:The Strange Birth and Long Life of Unix (2011) by ploxiln on Thursday June 09, 2016 @01:44AM (#11867749)
wink wink, nudge nudge ... say no more!
Re:The Strange Birth and Long Life of Unix (2011) by cyphar on Thursday June 09, 2016 @02:12AM (#11867833)
Which is why I personally use the term GNU/Linux. Not because the only other component in the system is GNU, but because it preserves the history of the system. It doesn't help than Linus calls his kernel an operating system.
Re:The Strange Birth and Long Life of Unix (2011) by renox on Thursday June 09, 2016 @08:10AM (#11868822)
Citation please? I don't remember Linus calling the kernel an operating system.
Re:The Strange Birth and Long Life of Unix (2011) by cyphar on Thursday June 09, 2016 @08:51AM (#11868997)
The first line of his 1991 announcement comes to mind. He has called it an operating system more recently, but I can't find a link right now.

> I'm doing a (free) operating system (just a hobby, won't be big and professional like gnu) for 386(486) AT clones.

Re:The Strange Birth and Long Life of Unix (2011) by kgr on Thursday June 09, 2016 @08:48AM (#11868981)
This video shows how Unix was mathematically more efficient than Multics, which goes a very long way at explaining its success and longevity:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ea3pkTCYx4

Re:The Strange Birth and Long Life of Unix (2011) by smhenderson on Thursday June 09, 2016 @10:46AM (#11869698)
Great read, another link along side under Related...

http://spectrum.ieee.org/at-work/innovation/inventing-unix

Also very entertaining. RIP Mr. Ritchie!

edit: wrong link, too many tabs. :-)

Re:The Strange Birth and Long Life of Unix (2011) by xufi on Thursday June 09, 2016 @04:51PM (#11872283)
I find UNIX amazing. What Thompson, Ritchie and McIllroy did was invaluable to the world of computing . I'm still to get well versed about the early days of it but its amazing how it transcended down to modern day
Re:The Strange Birth and Long Life of Unix (2011) by emmelaich on Thursday June 09, 2016 @12:05AM (#11867475)
Needs a (2011)
Re:The Strange Birth and Long Life of Unix (2011) by dang on Thursday June 09, 2016 @02:53AM (#11867961)
Thanks, added.