Re:$1M will buy 122 acres in part of U.S. National Radio Qui...
by pmorici on Sunday May 22, 2016 @10:41AM
(#11748748)
It sounds like it is smack in the middle of a large area where Broadcast TV, WiFi, and cellphones aren't allowed. Given the prevalence of those things in everyday life you wonder how that effects the properties value regardless of the location.
Re:$1M will buy 122 acres in part of U.S. National Radio Qui...
by consto on Sunday May 22, 2016 @12:49PM
(#11749268)
Broadcast TV can be replaced with cable, WiFi can be (mostly) replaced with a good ethernet network in the home - it would have to be properly wired and I doubt powerline would cut it.
However no cell phones. I'm guessing landlines and VoIP are popular.
Re:$1M will buy 122 acres in part of U.S. National Radio Qui...
by aab0 on Sunday May 22, 2016 @01:02PM
(#11749317)
Kids would go berserk in a setting like that, can you imagine? No Instagram, Snapchat, games, and on and on. Can smartphones even be plugged directly into an Ethernet socket? They only have USB ports AFAIK.
Any parent with kids >10yo who moves there with them will soon wish they had torn down the house and built a Faraday cage they can put Wifi into instead...
Re:$1M will buy 122 acres in part of U.S. National Radio Qui...
by cfallin on Sunday May 22, 2016 @02:09PM
(#11749586)
> Can smartphones even be plugged directly into an Ethernet socket?
Yup. I've done this with my Nexus 5. You need a USB OTG cable and a USB Ethernet adapter. Dorkiest thing ever, walking around the apartment trailing an Ethernet cable, but page-loads were pretty snappy, all right...
Re:$1M will buy 122 acres in part of U.S. National Radio Qui...
by cfallin on Sunday May 22, 2016 @05:19PM
(#11750329)
I'm pretty sure it was plug-and-play. It's actually kind of cool how many USB peripherals Android natively supports -- keyboards, mice, flash drives, etc...
Re:$1M will buy 122 acres in part of U.S. National Radio Qui...
by yompers888 on Monday May 23, 2016 @01:54PM
(#11755551)
I lived in the NRQZ and had no knowledge of the fact until maybe a year ago, long after I left. Some of the commenters here are ridiculous; we had cell phones, wifi, microwaves, radios, and probably anything else people here have come up with. I'll grant that the cell service was never great, but I always figured that was more a function of living in a pretty rural place (town of 20k).
Re:$1M will buy 122 acres in part of U.S. National Radio Qui...
by gambiting on Sunday May 22, 2016 @04:14PM
(#11750080)
Microwaves are not allowed, because for the fraction of a second between you opening the door and the generator switching off there is always a tiny leakage of microwave energy - and it has actually set off radars in sensitive areas in the past. So to answer your question - probably not.
It's within a 1 mile radius of the radio astronomy dish that petrol engined cars (spark plugs) and emitters like microwaves are banned.
You can install licensed point to point microwave radio and VHF/UHF radio systems, etc in the NRQZ, you just need to go through a coordination process.
Re:$1M will buy 122 acres in part of U.S. National Radio Qui...
by jedberg on Sunday May 22, 2016 @04:47PM
(#11750223)
Doing some quick math, if the upkeep is $5M a year, and you do camp 50 weeks a year, it could work out. With 80 homes you could probably easily house 400 people per camp, each camp is 1/2 a week, so you'd need about $110 per person towards upkeep. Probably $100 for food, $100 for staff. It look like they charge about $700 for 3 days, so that still leaves almost $400 per person for all the stuff I didn't think of.
The question is whether you could find 400 people 100 times a year.
Re:$1M will buy 122 acres in part of U.S. National Radio Qui...
by deftnerd on Sunday May 22, 2016 @06:08PM
(#11750487)
Transportation would be an issue too. Assuming you were targeting individuals across the nation, they would likely be flying into the nearest regional airfield. You would likely have to bus 400 people within the same 4 hour window one or twice a week, so you would have to maintain or rent a fleet of 10 buses and drivers.
Unless you were in a very big city, I don't think the taxi/uber infrastructure could handle a surge of 400 long trips within that kind of window.
Re:$1M will buy 122 acres in part of U.S. National Radio Qui...
by pcurve on Sunday May 22, 2016 @11:25PM
(#11751647)
Not to be funny, but considering its location and surrounding, I don't think it's attractive as recreational facility. Maybe obesity camp, internet addiction detox camp, or perhaps isolationist religious cults.
Re:$1M will buy 122 acres in part of U.S. National Radio Qui...
by sanj on Sunday May 22, 2016 @10:29AM
(#11748691)
"An array of giant parabolic dishes obscured by thick forest cover are housed on a mountain ridge just over a mile southeast of the main property. These, however, are not part of the sale."
Re:$1M will buy 122 acres in part of U.S. National Radio Qui...
by markps on Sunday May 22, 2016 @01:59PM
(#11749542)
When I was about 15, my dad and I volunteered to help strip cable and waveguide off giant dishes in a decommissioned radio-free zone north of Boulder. The material was donated to a local amateur radio club and was mostly recycled as scrap metal.
I was given some wrenches, a harness, a few carabiners and some rope. I have to say, hanging off those bottom supports with nothing below me was one of the most exciting times of my life!
Re:$1M will buy 122 acres in part of U.S. National Radio Qui...
by walrus01 on Sunday May 22, 2016 @03:36PM
(#11749918)
The dishes have considerable value if dismantled carefully and relocated for a current C, Ku and Ka band teleport operator (two way satellite services). Will likely need new feeds and all electronics. A new 16.4 meter C-band earth station dish is $165,000+.
Re:$1M will buy 122 acres in part of U.S. National Radio Qui...
by maxerickson on Sunday May 22, 2016 @10:35AM
(#11748718)
What do you mean? A mile south would mean there are roughly 640 acres between the land being disposed of and the array. It doesn't seem to really be part of the area being sold, just a nearby property.
It's like saying that such and such skyscraper doesn't come with a house located some distance away.
Re:$1M will buy 122 acres in part of U.S. National Radio Qui...
by throwaway76543 on Sunday May 22, 2016 @12:21PM
(#11749153)
Agreed it's not particularly cheap at all. Average cropland per-acre cost is $4k per acre, which prices 122 acres at under $500k. If you want cheap acerage in the woods you can get it for around $1k/acre - expect to spend around $150k in total.
Hell, for $1,700/ac you can buy a 160 acre plot within driving distance of Silicon Valley out by Mt. Hamilton: https://www.redfin.com/CA/Newman/5-W-of-Hwy-95360/home/22910... These old 160ac homestead plots come up for sale periodically out there and they're quite cheap. Much, much less than a three hour drive from say, Palo Alto.
Re:$1M will buy 122 acres in part of U.S. National Radio Qui...
by someguydave on Sunday May 22, 2016 @11:07PM
(#11751584)
The listing says "benefits from the Williamson Act" which apparently means that the property cannot be developed for some period of time - which probably explains the low price.
Re:$1M will buy 122 acres in part of U.S. National Radio Qui...
by tombone12 on Sunday May 22, 2016 @01:26PM
(#11749411)
Good place for a radio telescope though. And you can probably sell observation of known radio sources to the Russians and Chinese for a bit of money; I imagine it is useful for something to know the site properties of a NSA listening station.
Re:$1M will buy 122 acres in part of U.S. National Radio Qui...
by walrus01 on Sunday May 22, 2016 @07:33PM
(#11750761)
The people who do satellite SIGINT for non-five-eyes nations don't need to be told this, they already know. For listening to geostationary satellites it's fairly basic criteria, simply, be in a low population area that is RF quiet. The parabolic dish antennas at 9 meters+ are very, very directional.
Re:$1M will buy 122 acres in part of U.S. National Radio Qui...
by jonnathanson on Sunday May 22, 2016 @03:00PM
(#11749786)
I imagine a savvy and well connected buyer could persuade the feds either to pay for demolition and clearing of existing facilities or to subsidize upkeep. All of this in exchange for this favor or that permission, etc.
Shit, I bet there are developers connected enough to lease or buy from Agency A and lease or sublease facilities to Agency B, creating an arbitrage opportunity.
Mark my words: the gov will end up, on a net basis, paying some rich guy to take this off their hands.
Re:$1M will buy 122 acres in part of U.S. National Radio Qui...
by nxzero on Sunday May 22, 2016 @12:05PM
(#11749089)
Aside from the NSA, who would have a need to have 80 (likely very old) homes on a 122 acres on the middle of nowhere with an RF ban. Homes make the property worth less, not more. Demolition costs alone would likely be in the millions and quick search of comparable land prices in the area shows this is over priced.
The village of Green Bank — population 143 — has become a mecca for people who believe their lives have been disrupted by EHS. Until she moved to Green Bank, Diane Schou lived in a shielded metal cage to try and alleviate her EHS symptoms. "Living here allows me to be more of a normal person," says Schou, as quoted by BBC News. "I can be outdoors. I don't have to stay hidden"
Re:$1M will buy 122 acres in part of U.S. National Radio Qui...
by nickpsecurity on Sunday May 22, 2016 @08:02PM
(#11750877)
Probably haha. I could design one which couldn't, though, as people have been cooking since before cellphones, WiFi, and microwaves. There were five-star restaurants before these. Even feedback from customers could happen over landline. So, it's at least conceivable.
> Ms Schou is one of an estimated 5% of Americans who believe they suffer from Electromagnetic Hypersensitivity (EHS), which they say is caused by exposure to electromagnetic fields typically created by mobile phones, wi-fi and other electronic equipment.
> Some people with MCS also experience sensitivity to electricity, so some houses forgo electricity, or have it routed through a single room which can be completely shut off from the rest of the house.
Re:$1M will buy 122 acres in part of U.S. National Radio Qui...
by dmd on Sunday May 22, 2016 @01:37PM
(#11749459)
Number of these people, when actually tested in a double-blind study, who have been shown to have any sensitivity or even awareness of the presence or absence of electromagnetic fields: 0
Re:$1M will buy 122 acres in part of U.S. National Radio Qui...
by profmonocle on Monday May 23, 2016 @12:11PM
(#11754767)
My favorite (probably apocryphal) anecdote about EM sensitivity: A mobile company built a new cell tower in a small town. Residents began complaining of headaches and nausea. A town meeting was called, and after hearing the complaints, a representative of the mobile company said "if it's that bad now, imagine how bad it'll be when we turn it on."
Re:$1M will buy 122 acres in part of U.S. National Radio Qui...
by lazyjones on Sunday May 22, 2016 @08:22PM
(#11750963)
Or you could buy approximately 20x as much land in a quiet area of Chile, where there's also very little radio traffic going on and there are much fewer strings attached. Patagonia is also one of the most beautiful spots on earth, IMHO.
Re:$1M will buy 122 acres in part of U.S. National Radio Qui...
by Animats on Sunday May 22, 2016 @03:39PM
(#11749929)
There are lots of defunct military bases. Fort Ord, in Monterey, CA, was closed in 1994, and it's still underutilized. Great weather, near the beach, near a reasonably sized city, and still a tough sell.
Re:$1M will buy 122 acres in part of U.S. National Radio Qui...
by saarons on Sunday May 22, 2016 @04:45PM
(#11750217)
I went to high school on Fort Ord land and I think the primary reason for it being a tough sell is the unexploded ordnances. Every year we were given a presentation on how to identify old landmines and avoid them. Even with the recent cleanup efforts it's still somewhat dangerous and only the fringes of Fort Ord (where cleanup happened a while ago) are being actively developed.
Re:$1M will buy 122 acres in part of U.S. National Radio Qui...
by walrus01 on Sunday May 22, 2016 @03:38PM
(#11749924)
Given the NSA site, I wonder what the availability of commercial DWDM services is to Ashburn, VA from dark fiber owners such as level3, zayo, etc. Locations of buried 288 strand cable and raman amplifier sites would not be too difficult to discover. The US government usually doesn't build its own longhaul fiber.
Re:$1M will buy 122 acres in part of U.S. National Radio Qui...
by Shivetya on Sunday May 22, 2016 @12:48PM
(#11749259)
well oddly that isn't as true as some might believe. there is this whole ownership versus usage game that some of them play to let them "use" computers as long as they don't own them or the place where they are kept.
plus like many faiths, it depends on which exact subset you are
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_National_Radio_Q...
However no cell phones. I'm guessing landlines and VoIP are popular.
Any parent with kids >10yo who moves there with them will soon wish they had torn down the house and built a Faraday cage they can put Wifi into instead...
Yup. I've done this with my Nexus 5. You need a USB OTG cable and a USB Ethernet adapter. Dorkiest thing ever, walking around the apartment trailing an Ethernet cable, but page-loads were pretty snappy, all right...
EDIT: Looks like anything goes if it doesn't cause unacceptable levels of noise http://fusion.net/story/243321/wtf-wifi-in-the-green-bank-wv...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_National_Radio_Q...
You think that nobody in a city the size of Harrisonburg VA has a microwave?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrisonburg,_Virginia
It's within a 1 mile radius of the radio astronomy dish that petrol engined cars (spark plugs) and emitters like microwaves are banned.
You can install licensed point to point microwave radio and VHF/UHF radio systems, etc in the NRQZ, you just need to go through a coordination process.
https://science.nrao.edu/facilities/gbt/interference-protect...
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11748758
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/may/05/microwave-ov...
Edit: and now downvotes on this post, despite containing nothing else but a link. Would anyone care to explain what is going on?
> Please resist commenting about being downvoted. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading.
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
The question is whether you could find 400 people 100 times a year.
Unless you were in a very big city, I don't think the taxi/uber infrastructure could handle a surge of 400 long trips within that kind of window.
Also google satellite images shows it pretty clear if you search for it. It's south of Sugar Grove.
I was given some wrenches, a harness, a few carabiners and some rope. I have to say, hanging off those bottom supports with nothing below me was one of the most exciting times of my life!
It's like saying that such and such skyscraper doesn't come with a house located some distance away.
Hell, for $1,700/ac you can buy a 160 acre plot within driving distance of Silicon Valley out by Mt. Hamilton: https://www.redfin.com/CA/Newman/5-W-of-Hwy-95360/home/22910... These old 160ac homestead plots come up for sale periodically out there and they're quite cheap. Much, much less than a three hour drive from say, Palo Alto.
Now, about that water ...
Shit, I bet there are developers connected enough to lease or buy from Agency A and lease or sublease facilities to Agency B, creating an arbitrage opportunity.
Mark my words: the gov will end up, on a net basis, paying some rich guy to take this off their hands.
The higher price than the surroundings makes it obvious that they are hoping the facilities make the property worth more to the buyer.
The village of Green Bank — population 143 — has become a mecca for people who believe their lives have been disrupted by EHS. Until she moved to Green Bank, Diane Schou lived in a shielded metal cage to try and alleviate her EHS symptoms. "Living here allows me to be more of a normal person," says Schou, as quoted by BBC News. "I can be outdoors. I don't have to stay hidden"
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_National_Radio...
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-14887428
> Ms Schou is one of an estimated 5% of Americans who believe they suffer from Electromagnetic Hypersensitivity (EHS), which they say is caused by exposure to electromagnetic fields typically created by mobile phones, wi-fi and other electronic equipment.
Similar to Snowflake, AZ:
http://99percentinvisible.org/episode/snowflake/
> Some people with MCS also experience sensitivity to electricity, so some houses forgo electricity, or have it routed through a single room which can be completely shut off from the rest of the house.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Ord
Closed as an air force base in 1966 and turned over to the local government, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grant_County_International_Air...
Closed as an active SAC bomber air force base in 1969, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton-Sherman_Industrial_Air...
plus like many faiths, it depends on which exact subset you are
We detached this comment from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11749136 and marked it off-topic.