State the one you want, not the one you're currently making. They won't (and legally should't be able to) check.

And if they do and somehow, your previous employer disclosed this to them (a big no no), you can always say "I was underpaid then and what I was making there is not relevant to the position I'm applying to with your right now. I also think I've learned a lot in my past position, which justifies this jump in compensation".

I've only ever done this (caveat: in the US, where they can't legally check by calling the company directly). Increase your previous salary by 20-30%, even more if it's the norm. I've even countered with "my current co just countered to keep me..." Gotta have some chutzpah.

Shoot thats a good one I need to add to my list! Fake counteroffer from own employer. (Fake competing offer from a different company probably wouldn't work, because they would ask for an "offer letter". A counteroffer from current company isn't going to require proof)

I'm all for solid negotiating tactics, but if you consider telling an untruth, you are not welcome on my team.

You may still find other teams in the world that you can dupe, but in the end, I expect lies to hurt your overall prospects (in life as well as work.)

Really? Because people are so honest? Everyone on your team tells lies every single day, I guarantee it.

What you're saying contradicts the common advice to oversell yourself (AKA "fake it til you make it").

I always find it amusing when people refuse to lie on certain things based on some sort of moral-code or principle and then spew out lies for tons of others.

> I'm all for solid negotiating tactics, but if you consider telling an untruth, you are not welcome on my team.

Do you seriously think your team is made of 100% people who only ever tell the truth?

Let's get realistic, we all tell lies here and there. What matters is what you lie about and why you do it.

I couldn't care less if a developer joins my team and lied to get a higher compensation. All I care about is whether they are a good hire and if they'll do good work.

The whole point is that its impossible to verify....

Unverifiable makes it hard to believe as well (unless the numbers were reasonable to start with).

But there's an easy check, should they care to do it: call their current manager.

If I'm doing the hiring, I wouldn't expect a candidate to let me talk to their current manager--that's just insane.

If I thought the employee was worth the extra money they were asking for, I'd give it to them. If not, I'd let them walk. Whether their current job is considering matching their offer doesn't really matter to me.

If a candidate asks for a specific salary, I don't care why they want it. I only care whether I think they are worth it, and whether I can afford it.

Are you certain everybody on your side of the negotiation is fully truthful? Do you include management, HR and recruiters in "everybody"?

If so, you're not talking to your recruiters. You should find out more about what your side of this negotiation looks like to a candidate.

That's an awesome retort, never thought of that!

I have had a company request a previous paystub. I guess you could Photoshop that.

It's absolutely not at all illegal to check and is a very standard part of background checks.

Not sure why this was downvoted, it's not illegal and companies do it via background checks.

Quick searches reveal this is a popular question, spot checks of the answers agree that it's not illegal and quite common.

I think the OP means they can't legally access this information other than by getting you or your previous employer to disclose it.

Most large companies won't give out your past salary information, so if they don't force you to provide proof, it's not very likely they will be able to verify it.

>via background checks

Background checks are normally done via a 3rd party background check company, and they don't have access to this kind of data.

When I was hired by Merrill Lynch, in Dublin, they asked for my bank statements for the last ten years in order to verify that I was indeed making what I said. (The only annoying thing was that I had to scan 75 pages... boooring.)

If they don't trust the number you were quoting, I wonder why they would trust you to scan.

Wow, seriously? Full rectal as well?

It was the first time I worked for a bank; I just assumed it's "how things are done" :)

I'm going to be more careful next time. :D

Exactly, thanks for clarifying this for me.

In the US, this is a legal minefield and when a potential employer calls a past employer for references, that past employer will very often not reveal anything more than "We can confirm that this person was employed by us from date1 to date2" and that's it.

They will not disclose your salary, what you did, your organization, who you reported to and who reported to you, your performance reviews and anything else of that nature because all of this extra information is grounds for you to sue them later if you don't get the job you're currently applying to.

>Background checks are normally done via a 3rd party background check company, and they don't have access to this kind of data.

Yes they do. There's a company owned by Equifax called The Work Number that collects such information.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Work_Number

The only way The Work Number has access to your salary information is if your employer has given it to them. If your employer is willing to give that out then yes a hiring company can verify your salary.

We are back to my original point that the only way a hiring company can verify salary data is by asking your employer (or having 3rd party ask for them) or forcing you to verify it.

Why is it that "What are you making are your current job, we will verify it." is acceptable but "What was this companies net revenue last quarter" is not. The game is so clearly rigged.

The company bears far less risk than the employee. The company can easily fire you if it doesn't work out, whereas most employees can't suddenly leave a job that treats them badly.

So employees can ask lots of questions about company financial health, as part of trying to reduce the far larger risk they are taking.

Meanwhile, a company doesn't need to know your salary history to make an informed opinion of whether they want to hire you and for what amount of pay.

Public companies publish quarter results..

According to Forbes: "less than 1 percent of the 27 million businesses in the U.S. are publicly traded on the major exchanges." [1]

[1] http://www.forbes.com/sites/sageworks/2013/05/26/4-things-yo...

That's true but far more than 1% of employees are employed by publicly traded companies. Most of the 27 million businesses have no employees at all--there are only around 5 million businesses with employees.

What do you mean that this is a big no-no? Can you provide a source for that? I was under the opposite impression and I'd be interested to learn more.

The reason I ask is I've certainly worked at companies that shared salary info if asked about your tenure there. In fact, it was one of the very few things they would share (in addition to start date and end date). Maybe it varies by state?

This is my standard recommended answer:

"I'm not comfortable sharing that information [my current salary]. I'd prefer to focus on the value I can add to your company and learn more about this opportunity.

I want this to be a big step forward for me in terms of both responsibility and compensation."

You can obviously adjust it for your own situation, but the idea is "I'm not comfortable telling you my current or desired salary. Let's keep going, please."

I call this "The Dreaded Salary Question" and you can see a better clip and a lengthy Q&A on this specific question in this salary negotiation workshop I did in Orlando last week: http://bit.ly/21zFG5q

I have practiced that part and read just about everything I can find about it.

Generally I say something like, "I appreciate the need to consider salary as an important part of the process, but since we have only just started talking about the position I feel it would be best to make sure that I really am the sort of technical and cultural fit you are looking for. If we can determine that I am the right fit for the role, then the salary information will fall into place at the appropriate time. But if it seems that I am not the right fit for your team, then no amount of salary discussions will be able to help us."

I have a few variations on that kind of description that I use. It's entirely possible that the way I say it can come off as rude, and I think that did happen to me especially a few times when I first started doing this.

But I have practiced it, asked friends for advice about how to say it better, how it sounds, etc., and researched a lot about this online. So I have some confidence that it is coming off as strong and assertive, but not rude, and it is communicated clearly in good-faith because I truly am primarily interested in whether the cultural fit is a good one.

Even so, these kinds of HR-approved ways of talking only ever result in about a 95% chance of immediate rejection.

Whenever I have made it past the initial question about salary, and eventually salary comes up again towards the stage when an offer is made, I have a different way of talking about it.

At that stage, if they ask me again, I will usually say something like, "I have spoken with the team and had a great chance to learn about your company and how I could fit in with this role. If you have a particular salary range that you'd like to share with me, I can definitely let you know how it will match up with my expectations."

Again, I have some slight variations on that, but it's more or less the same idea of changing their question asked of me into my question asked of them. They can't keep coming back and specifically asking me for a number without seeming very awkward, and if they do that it's sometimes a red flag and I would usually be happy walking away if they were to heavily press me at that point.

Unfortunately, as I mentioned above, when people have been OK with all of this and they have actually come back with their offer, it has been not just a tiny bit below my ideal, but way, way off base from what I was previously earning, let alone what I was actually seeking to earn in the new role.

Never "decline". I say I consider the entire compensation package because I realize they are a startup and need to sweeten their offer with stock because they don't have the revenue to pay a market rate.

It's important to neg them a little when you guess what they will offer. Male them self consious about lowballing you without insulting them.

I actually am beginning to think that its weak to ask them to throw out a number. Why not state a deal that's 10% better than what you want? Are you really going to be heartbroken if you get more than you want?

> Why not state a deal that's 10% better than what you want? Are you really going to be heartbroken if you get more than you want?

Because you might be leaving money on the table. What if the company was prepared to offer you 20% above your desired rate? Once you tell them +10% is your floor, they have no reason to offer above that.

That's why I think its weak. It's driven by fomo rather than going for what you want. Throwing out the first number let's you anchor the negotiation. It puts you in control.

Tell them your salary is 'confidential information', your current employer often likes to suggest it is...