News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Opera Browser adds integrated adblocker by yev on Thursday March 10, 2016 @04:38AM (#11258170)
if ((!!window.opr && !!opr.addons) || !!window.opera || navigator.userAgent.indexOf(' OPR/') >= 0) { throw alert('your browser is not supported'); }
Re:Opera Browser adds integrated adblocker by akerro on Thursday March 10, 2016 @04:42AM (#11258180)
I stopped using at least 4 websites which I followed for years just because they tried to enforce on me turning off PrivacyBadger and uBlock. It will hurt only you in long term. It's more important for me to use my browser then you website that doesn't respect my choices.
Re:Opera Browser adds integrated adblocker by Kiro on Thursday March 10, 2016 @05:34AM (#11258350)
> It's more important for me to use my browser then you website that doesn't respect my choices.

Likewise I have the right to reject you if you can't comply with my terms.

Re:Opera Browser adds integrated adblocker by Touche on Thursday March 10, 2016 @08:26AM (#11259001)
What terms? They send you a GET and you responded with 200 OK. What they do with the response once it reaches their property is up to them, you have no claim to how they view it.
Re:Opera Browser adds integrated adblocker by hsod on Thursday March 10, 2016 @11:37AM (#11260189)
The terms that are presented and (quasi-)enforced by the javascript returned with that 200 OK.

"This site is not supported on browsers that block ads. Please switch to a different browser or disable your adblocker to proceed"

Those are terms. You can choose to ignore or circumvent them but they're still terms.

Re:Opera Browser adds integrated adblocker by Touche on Thursday March 10, 2016 @04:45PM (#11262651)
FWIW I have no problem with sites doing this. You can participate in ad-blocking arms race if you so desire. I have no obligation to run your JavaScript just because you sent it to me. You can try to make it a requirement and I'll probably just use software to circumvent it.

But underlying point is that you have no moral or ethical claim to how people view your content, just as you have no moral or ethical claim that a person cannot rip ads out of a magazine. If you want them to pay for your content, the Open Internet is not the place you should be publishing.

Re:Opera Browser adds integrated adblocker by norea-armozel on Thursday March 10, 2016 @05:33PM (#11263058)
They're not legally enforceable either. So, you can expect people to disable JS entirely on your site. :3
Re:Opera Browser adds integrated adblocker by threatofrain on Thursday March 10, 2016 @06:32AM (#11258561)
Of course, and I believe that the sum of actors exercising fair play in a generally free space will result in interesting market and social configurations.

In this case, I see internet content divided in half -- content for those who can pay for it, and content for those who can't. Not all websites should survive. Not all users should be able to experience everything on the internet. "You get what you pay for" is not wrong. Exclusivity can lead to quality.

Re:Opera Browser adds integrated adblocker by nobodyshere on Thursday March 10, 2016 @06:35AM (#11258574)
Something new will appear, like pirated news aggregators. Maybe hosted in tor.
Re:Opera Browser adds integrated adblocker by threatofrain on Thursday March 10, 2016 @06:38AM (#11258591)
Sure, and I say let the games go on. I am eager to see what emerges.
Re:Opera Browser adds integrated adblocker by akerro on Thursday March 10, 2016 @06:24AM (#11258530)
My father doesn't even know what web browser is he using. He doesn't know how to install different one. He doesn't have permission do it anyway. You will ban him, he will stop coming there and start going to competitors. Who is lost is such situation?
Re:Opera Browser adds integrated adblocker by nobodyshere on Thursday March 10, 2016 @05:56AM (#11258437)
Thing is, who loses in such a case?
Re:Opera Browser adds integrated adblocker by mhaehnel on Thursday March 10, 2016 @06:19AM (#11258513)
Well played.
Re:Opera Browser adds integrated adblocker by pdkl95 on Thursday March 10, 2016 @08:48AM (#11259139)
> terms

HTTP is not a contract.

Re:Opera Browser adds integrated adblocker by reasonality on Thursday March 10, 2016 @04:44AM (#11258190)
How does it hurt them?

You stopped leeching their bandwidth without any opportunity for them to earn any ad revenue from them!

Allowing leeches on your website doesn't seem that beneficial.

Re:Opera Browser adds integrated adblocker by moonchrome on Thursday March 10, 2016 @04:58AM (#11258229)
Let's say two sites, A and B host similar content.

The end user cannot see some content on site A because of adblock detection but he can see it on site B, he down votes the link of site A on sharing networks, he asks for a policy banning or advocates against linking to site A because content can be found on B.

I've seen this play out many times, and at that point you're not just losing traffic from ad block clients you're losing traffic overall, have people actively promote your competitors and earn a bad rep (and that rep might not even be objective - in general if people remember anything it will be "don't use A" not the "why" of it)

Re:Opera Browser adds integrated adblocker by jinst8gmi on Thursday March 10, 2016 @05:04AM (#11258244)
Perhaps we should add [adwall] to links similar to the way we include [paywall]?
Re:Opera Browser adds integrated adblocker by eva1984 on Thursday March 10, 2016 @05:46AM (#11258400)
This won't work once more and more sites join the adwall band.
Re:Opera Browser adds integrated adblocker by moonchrome on Thursday March 10, 2016 @05:49AM (#11258409)
Cartel members always have incentives to cheat - if one site can become popular by not ad-walling like 90% of them do and regurgitate the content of 90% they will do it and disregard "the big picture" especially considering the low barriers to entry. They have no enforcement mechanism to keep everyone honest - the only way this sort of thing works is if you "outlaw" non-ad-walled sites - something like google not listing those sites - otherwise not happening.
Re:Opera Browser adds integrated adblocker by eva1984 on Thursday March 10, 2016 @06:20AM (#11258516)
A restaurant cannot beat other restaurants by making its meal free to all.
Re:Opera Browser adds integrated adblocker by _Understated_ on Thursday March 10, 2016 @06:28AM (#11258546)
No, but it can by offering better service, better food, better decor etc.
Re:Opera Browser adds integrated adblocker by eva1984 on Thursday March 10, 2016 @08:07AM (#11258917)
But customer needs to pay
Re:Opera Browser adds integrated adblocker by JulianMorrison on Thursday March 10, 2016 @10:51AM (#11259881)
Someone needs to pay in a society where a restaurant owner needs money to eat. But that someone doesn't have to be the customer, doesn't have to be every customer - and the economy might not be structured to require anyone to pay for things, in which case both the restaurant and the customers get everything without money. (Why would people work there? Maybe vocation or hospitality, maybe they wouldn't and robots would instead.)
Re:Opera Browser adds integrated adblocker by eva1984 on Friday March 11, 2016 @12:51AM (#11264882)
Oh, good dreams...
Re:Opera Browser adds integrated adblocker by Etheryte on Thursday March 10, 2016 @06:05AM (#11258464)
I would say just the reverse, this will work more and more.
Re:Opera Browser adds integrated adblocker by eva1984 on Thursday March 10, 2016 @06:16AM (#11258501)
Under what scenario?
Re:Opera Browser adds integrated adblocker by jinst8gmi on Thursday March 10, 2016 @04:55AM (#11258220)
A site which eventually has no visitors will become irrelevant. Those with ad blockers will also often share links to said site which others without ad blockers will click on. If you block me on your website there are many others who will no longer be clicking through via the links I would otherwise have shared.
Re:Opera Browser adds integrated adblocker by akerro on Thursday March 10, 2016 @04:55AM (#11258219)
>You stopped leeching their bandwidth without any opportunity for them to earn any ad revenue from them!

I stopped adding comments, starting discussions, I allow some non-intrusive ads when I enable them, I have quite extensive whitelist in ublock.

Re:Opera Browser adds integrated adblocker by aikah on Thursday March 10, 2016 @05:27AM (#11258328)
Well as a user I might share a link to a site that will be seen by 100 or 1000's of others, on Facebook, Reddit or whatever social network. If that website blocks me from visiting them at first place, they will also loose all the potential revenue from the viral effect.

Is it what you call a leech ?

Re:Opera Browser adds integrated adblocker by eva1984 on Thursday March 10, 2016 @05:51AM (#11258415)
But your friends have larger chance also being ad blocker users, right? In the end, the website just get more requests and a bigger bill from ISP without getting a cent from those.
Re:Opera Browser adds integrated adblocker by reasonality on Thursday March 10, 2016 @05:32AM (#11258344)
You're assuming the set of people who dislike ads and actively block them, intersects with the set of people who don't mind ads.

I'm not convinced that's the case. They're usually quite different demographics.

Re:Opera Browser adds integrated adblocker by aw3c2 on Thursday March 10, 2016 @05:17AM (#11258290)
Is bandwidth anything remotely worth "protecting" in this day and age?
Re:Opera Browser adds integrated adblocker by sergiotapia on Thursday March 10, 2016 @05:21AM (#11258304)
People just stop using those sites, easy peasy. I've stopped browsing a few, and just close out sites that block me because I use ublock origin. No real loss to the consumer when almost every news story is syndicated and found elsewhere just as easily.
Re:Opera Browser adds integrated adblocker by wimagguc on Thursday March 10, 2016 @05:35AM (#11258352)
Websites can try to block users with certain browsers or ad-blockers, but that's not going to work. With a very few exceptions, content is a commodity and portals are easily replaceable.

Actually it feels like there are more people creating content than reading it these days. There is plenty of interesting content out there, so if people can't access something, they just move on to the next one and never return.

Re:Opera Browser adds integrated adblocker by reasonality on Thursday March 10, 2016 @04:42AM (#11258183)
Or just hide and obfuscate the ads better.

Getting past ad-blockers isn't exactly rocket science. This is an arms race which will not end well.

Re:Opera Browser adds integrated adblocker by threatofrain on Thursday March 10, 2016 @05:01AM (#11258235)
Whatever end is reached, there's no intuitive or trending reason why it won't be any better or worse than not using ad + tracking blockers. The end result of any side winning is simply that they get what they want; it's not going to lead to some tragedy of the commons.

Either advertisers get to track people or they don't. Either people get to block things or they don't. Once upon a time there was little attention to these things, and advertisers got to slurp up data en masse. That is still the case, just an inch less so today.

Perhaps this is a bit cruel, but I believe in a divided web experience, one which is ad-supported and the masses browse and are tracked, the other which is curated, high signal, and directly paid for. Like with most things in life, you get what you have the leverage to get, and in general that means what you pay for.

Scientific literature is run through this way, and I don't think they're hurting for ad revenue. I think exclusivity can protect quality. It's okay to have a paid-for news channel, and a free news channel for the masses, a paid-for Reddit, and a free Reddit. You get what you pay for.

Re:Opera Browser adds integrated adblocker by pjc50 on Thursday March 10, 2016 @08:37AM (#11259068)
Scientific literature is still working out how to deal with "open access": there's a big demand to make papers free-to-access. Which results in the cost being borne by the author paying the publisher instead .. or the disappearance of the publisher intermediary altogether.
Re:Opera Browser adds integrated adblocker by reasonality on Thursday March 10, 2016 @05:17AM (#11258291)
Well clearly the experience for people not using ad blockers is substantially worse than it was 10 years ago.

If the usage of ad blockers increases, you can bet that those not using ad blockers will be squeezed and exploited and have a thousand popups and intrusive ads thrown at them in order for the sites to recoup the lost money.

So those using ad blockers are making the web worse for everyone.

Re:Opera Browser adds integrated adblocker by distances on Thursday March 10, 2016 @05:27AM (#11258327)
I have no reason whatsoever to believe that the ads and popups would be less intrusive if there was a larger audience accepting them.
Re:Opera Browser adds integrated adblocker by aikah on Thursday March 10, 2016 @05:31AM (#11258340)
> I you can bet that those not using ad blockers will be squeezed and exploited and have a thousand popups and intrusive ads thrown at them in order for the sites to recoup the lost money.

They are doing that already, they are maximizing the amount of ads they can shove down user's throats. This is nothing new and ad-blocking didn't change that. You'd think adverstiser would understand by now the reason why people use adblocker...

Re:Opera Browser adds integrated adblocker by threatofrain on Thursday March 10, 2016 @06:26AM (#11258537)
Actually, it is the responsibility of any behavioral researcher, marketer, or designer, to extract full value from users as is sound to business short/middle/long term goals. If there are still ads to be placed, still users to be tracked, metrics to be studied, then let it be so.

You're assuming that 'good behavior' of users should somehow stay the hand of marketing companies. It ought not. A good marketing company will do everything to extract full value insofar as it is harmonious to business goals -- ad blocker or not, the search for the perfect recipe of ad delivery will march on.

Re:Opera Browser adds integrated adblocker by executesorder66 on Thursday March 10, 2016 @05:43AM (#11258393)
> So those using ad blockers are making the web worse for everyone

How is it making the web worse for people using adblockers? Because they are a subset of "everyone"

Re:Opera Browser adds integrated adblocker by jinst8gmi on Thursday March 10, 2016 @04:58AM (#11258224)
Nothing an in-place edit of the page source can't remove or a fake user-agent string can't work around.
Re:Opera Browser adds integrated adblocker by JulianMorrison on Thursday March 10, 2016 @06:16AM (#11258506)
Oops, your script got eaten by the anti-adblock killer. Try again!
Re:Opera Browser adds integrated adblocker by plorkyeran on Thursday March 10, 2016 @09:34AM (#11259388)
A flashback to the 90s, when some websites blocked Opera because it had a built-in popup blocker.
Re:Opera Browser adds integrated adblocker by dave2000 on Thursday March 10, 2016 @05:30AM (#11258334)
Spoof user agent for whitelisted sites.

Your move.

Re:Opera Browser adds integrated adblocker by jalfresi on Thursday March 10, 2016 @09:00AM (#11259192)
Plenty more websites in the sea
Re:Opera Browser adds integrated adblocker by hathym on Thursday March 10, 2016 @04:44AM (#11258192)
forbes did it, look what happened.
Re:Opera Browser adds integrated adblocker by distances on Thursday March 10, 2016 @05:13AM (#11258279)
Well, what happened? I stopped visiting myself, but I have no idea what was the general reaction.
Re:Opera Browser adds integrated adblocker by digi_owl on Thursday March 10, 2016 @05:32AM (#11258345)
Soon after they started, it was found that their ads were delivering malware...
Re:Opera Browser adds integrated adblocker by jacquesm on Thursday March 10, 2016 @05:38AM (#11258370)
> I stopped visiting myself

That's one data point that can give you an idea of what the general reaction was.

Let's find some more:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11258424