News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Why expat Americans are giving up their passports by peteretep on Wednesday February 10, 2016 @05:56AM (#11071855)
America is one of the few countries that could get away with this, as being American has such a premium. It'd be nice to see them use their clout to force through legislation that stopped companies from playing silly beggars with their offshore profits if they wanted access to US markets.
Re:Why expat Americans are giving up their passports by jacquesm on Wednesday February 10, 2016 @06:08AM (#11071911)
What premium is that over say being the holder of passport from the UK, NL, DE, FR, ES, IT, CH, SE, DK, NO, FI, BE or any one of a host of other countries that don't have such crazy tax rules?
Re:Why expat Americans are giving up their passports by forgetsusername on Wednesday February 10, 2016 @07:32AM (#11072278)
>What premium is that over say being the holder of passport...

You tell me; there's a whole article written here about how hard it is to give up the US passport. Here we have a woman who doesn't live in the country and doesn't want to pay taxes to the country, yet is torn up about not being "American". I don't get it.

Re:Why expat Americans are giving up their passports by k-mcgrady on Wednesday February 10, 2016 @08:22AM (#11072528)
Patriotism can be as deeply ingrained in people as religious beliefs. From an outsiders perspective the US seems like one of those countries where people defend it blindly like they would a religion.
Re:Why expat Americans are giving up their passports by _cudgel on Wednesday February 10, 2016 @03:49PM (#11075866)
I think it's important to note that, for the most part, both patriotism and religion need to be deeply ingrained in a person at a very young age for them to defend either so blindly.

US families take care of the religious aspect; US public school take care of the patriotism. If you weren't of the age where you simply don't question what you're told yet, I believe (perhaps hope?) both of these would die out in a few generations.

Re:Why expat Americans are giving up their passports by tjl on Wednesday February 10, 2016 @03:00PM (#11075534)
One of the supervisors for my Master's thesis was American but has lived in Canada since the '70s. He hasn't bothered to get Canadian citizenship. He's now retired living in BC. I'm wondering if he'll do it now.
Re:Why expat Americans are giving up their passports by mbesto on Wednesday February 10, 2016 @06:31AM (#11072013)
The US economy and quality of life commands that premium.

Note - My fiancee is British and I've lived for 4 years overseas in the EU (UK 3 years, DE for 1). As the tax code as an American begins to squeeze more and more, I've become more reluctant to "pay" that premium, but there are indeed aspects of American life and opportunity that don't currently exist in the EU.

Re:Why expat Americans are giving up their passports by jacquesm on Wednesday February 10, 2016 @06:37AM (#11072048)
> but there are indeed aspects of American life and opportunity that don't currently exist in the EU.

Indeed there are. Many in the EU would consider the 'life' part of that sentence a good thing.

As for opportunity, I've never really felt that the EU limited me in ways that I would find less in the USA, but that's just anecdote, not research.

Not all of life revolves around start-ups, and plenty of the upsides of the opportunity in the USA come with associated downsides.

Re:Why expat Americans are giving up their passports by mbesto on Wednesday February 10, 2016 @06:51AM (#11072106)
Yup totally agree. Everyone's interpretation of the quality of life is going to be different, and therefore the debate will be never ending.
Re:Why expat Americans are giving up their passports by maxerize on Wednesday February 10, 2016 @06:58AM (#11072152)
I constantly have to remind myself that people who browse HN learn strongly libertarian and are mostly well-off white males. Otherwise, saying that the US quality of life exceeds that of the UK, Germany or Switzerland is just blatantly false.
Re:Why expat Americans are giving up their passports by splintercell on Wednesday February 10, 2016 @09:58AM (#11073128)
There was a time when Germany used to be the leading country in the world where almost all major thoughts and works were produced. Whether it was Literature, Art, Philosophy, Cinema, political thinking, Germany was the place to go (and because of close interactions, Austria).

Before that, it was Arab World, before that Ancient Rome, before than Ancient Greece.

Today that status belongs to America. If you want to produce anything which would make impact in the world, the most fertile ground for that is America. Even if a talent rises up say in Germany, the network effect of America attracts those individual to come to America. Maybe there is a smarter Elon Musk in South Africa, but the main point is that Elon Musk never came to America, this Elon Musk did.

I am not saying that somehow by being in America you automatically will be more likely to produce great thinking. Rather its more like being among more challenging and talented peers will bring your exposure and contribution to another level, something which isn't possible currently (even with the Internet) to be in Germany or Switzerland.

Re:Why expat Americans are giving up their passports by jacquesm on Wednesday February 10, 2016 @01:08PM (#11074607)
Just so I get this straight, you are claiming that America currently is the go to place for literature, art, philosophy, cinema and political thinking?

I'd accept such a claim for web scale technology and some other fields but for all of the above definitely not so much.

Re:Why expat Americans are giving up their passports by splintercell on Wednesday February 10, 2016 @02:01PM (#11075087)
I missed technology and science in my list of things, but yeah that too.

If we use Nobel prizes as a metric, then US beats other countries by a wide margin in everything except Literature. (Surprisingly Germany and UK, the old world leaders still come close second, but then we ARE considering nobel prizes awarded between 1901-2014). In terms of per capita, US is ranked 19th, and UK, the only large country in terms of population ranks higher.

It's true that USA is world's third largest populous country, so in terms of absolute numbers it beats other nations hands down, but there are two things which need to be considered. If EU was a single nation with single language and no immigration restrictions, then you will get the same benefit of being in EU(400+ Nobel prizes) as much as you'd get of being in America(350+ nobel prizes), that is, more integrated intellectual networks. But EU is fragmented into different nations, and despite of being an open border, the linguistic and cultural disparities do fragment the number of people you could have been connected to.

Second point is, almost all major figures in art and literature in America have lived in NYC at some point or the other. This usually means that if you lived in NYC, there are future nobel laureates living here with whom you might be interacting. So I think that not only you need to be in America in order to access the biggest network effect of anything, you need to be in one of the larger cities like NYC or SF.

Re:Why expat Americans are giving up their passports by maxerize on Friday February 12, 2016 @03:35AM (#11085959)
1. Nobel prizes are a very poor metric, e.g: http://www.cbc.ca/news/arts/nobel-literature-judge-says-awar...

2. Where you see fragmentation, we see diversity and a richer ecosystem. Where you see cultural disparities, we see a complex interplay of different cultures over millennia. Homogeneous populations are actually at a disadvantage because they don't have that kind of activity.

Re:Why expat Americans are giving up their passports by magicGLASSman on Wednesday February 10, 2016 @07:19AM (#11072227)
saying "blatantly false" does not make something factual. Please provide and argument with evidence instead of blanket racist remarks.
Re:Why expat Americans are giving up their passports by maxerize on Wednesday February 10, 2016 @07:45AM (#11072342)
For an example, this site doesn't have very comprehensive indicators but it's a good start:

https://www.ifitweremyhome.com/compare/DE/US

Re:Why expat Americans are giving up their passports by oscardelben on Wednesday February 10, 2016 @07:38AM (#11072308)
Healthcare.
Re:Why expat Americans are giving up their passports by spangry on Wednesday February 10, 2016 @09:54AM (#11073101)
Here you go. Latest UN Human Development Index rankings: http://hdr.undp.org/en/composite/HDI

  Switzerland: 3
  Germany: 6
  US: 8
  UK: 14
Re:Why expat Americans are giving up their passports by popmystack on Wednesday February 10, 2016 @09:28AM (#11072897)
Nothing he said was racist.
Re:Why expat Americans are giving up their passports by mcv on Wednesday February 10, 2016 @09:20AM (#11072839)
> there are indeed aspects of American life and opportunity that don't currently exist in the EU.

But which are those? As far as I can tell, the only meaningful one I can see is unrestricted access into the US, and the ability to vote for the most powerful government in the world. That's not nothing, but it doesn't have much impact on most people's everyday life, unlike stuff like healthcare and pensions.

I suppose an American living in the EU does get to enjoy the best of both worlds in that regard, but is it really worth paying double taxes? Are there other aspects I'm missing?

Re:Why expat Americans are giving up their passports by mbesto on Wednesday February 10, 2016 @09:50AM (#11073067)
I've never paid double taxes living in the EU/UK.: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_equalization
Re:Why expat Americans are giving up their passports by khgvljhkb on Wednesday February 10, 2016 @06:17AM (#11071947)
What's the premium of having a US passport? Canadian, UK, Scandinavian, Dutch, HK, Japanese, really whatever developed nations passport seems to be a better deal.
Re:Why expat Americans are giving up their passports by xtracto on Wednesday February 10, 2016 @09:32AM (#11072931)
> What's the premium of having a US passport? Canadian, UK, Scandinavian, Dutch, HK, Japanese, really whatever developed nations passport seems to be a better deal.

Exactly! I would be so happy to have a EU passport, that way I would have free travel/work access to the whole Euro zone and easier access to the UK.

Re:Why expat Americans are giving up their passports by k-mcgrady on Wednesday February 10, 2016 @06:00AM (#11071871)
>> "America is one of the few countries that could get away with this"

There are actually only two countries that do it - the US and Eritrea.

Re:Why expat Americans are giving up their passports by wolfgke on Wednesday February 10, 2016 @06:11AM (#11071927)
I think China, too.
Re:Why expat Americans are giving up their passports by analyst74 on Wednesday February 10, 2016 @02:51PM (#11075467)
I never thought about this, but shit it's true, because they learnt from IRS when drafting the tax code back in the day.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/08/business/international/chi...

Re:Why expat Americans are giving up their passports by seanmcdirmid on Wednesday February 10, 2016 @06:51AM (#11072110)
That is a bit ambiguous, but it seems to be more of a reporting requirement and not the same thing. Anyways, even us expats are effected by it if we stay for more than 5 years without a 1 month break.
Re:Why expat Americans are giving up their passports by girzel on Wednesday February 10, 2016 @08:57AM (#11072703)
I've been in China for fifteen years, and haven't filed taxes for the past twelve, I think. I'm moving back to the States at the end of this year, and am deeply worried about integrating myself back into the good graces of the IRS.

Luckily I'm poor as rocks!

Re:Why expat Americans are giving up their passports by Swizec on Wednesday February 10, 2016 @06:04AM (#11071897)
Does it have such a premium? Having an EU passport works preeeetty well too.
Re:Why expat Americans are giving up their passports by arto on Wednesday February 10, 2016 @06:10AM (#11071923)
Re:Why expat Americans are giving up their passports by cheatdeath on Wednesday February 10, 2016 @06:38AM (#11072053)
That list is out of date - there's an updated version on wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_(document)#Visa_restricti...

Not sure if "powerful" is the right word either. It's more of a list of the best passports to have if you want to go on holidays. "Doesn't require a visa" usually means those countries don't require visas for short non-business trips (anything from 14 days to 6 months). E.g. you can visit the US with a German passport for 3 months for a holiday but it's extremely difficult to get a visa to move there indefinitely.

Re:Why expat Americans are giving up their passports by masklinn on Wednesday February 10, 2016 @07:11AM (#11072193)
> E.g. you can visit the US with a German passport for 3 months for a holiday but it's extremely difficult to get a visa to move there indefinitely.

You do realise that works the same way for everybody and US visa-free entry is not a residence permit right? For instance as a US citizen you'd get visa-free entry to Iceland or Japan or New Zealand but can only stay for 90 days.

Re:Why expat Americans are giving up their passports by TheCoelacanth on Wednesday February 10, 2016 @10:51AM (#11073496)
Yes, the point is that the ranking would look very different if it were based on the ease of long term residence instead of a short visit. Going from the US to Germany for a short visit is basically the same as going from the UK to Germany for a short visit, but going from the US to Germany for long term residence is much more difficult than going from the UK to Germany for long term residence.
Re:Why expat Americans are giving up their passports by Vespasian on Wednesday February 10, 2016 @07:58AM (#11072398)
Well it works that way for everybody with a "good" passport. This is why the list is there in the first place ;)

Things get a lot more difficult if you have for example an Egyptian passport.

Re:Why expat Americans are giving up their passports by masklinn on Wednesday February 10, 2016 @08:08AM (#11072445)
Sure but that's not the point I'm arguing (or arguing against).
Re:Why expat Americans are giving up their passports by jacquesm on Wednesday February 10, 2016 @06:30AM (#11072005)
And many countries have collaboration efforts going where one countries consular services will aid the citizens of another (usually neighbouring) country if they have no representation themselves.

For instance many EU countries embassies will give aid to the members of other EU states that do not have local representation.

One of the most important things embassies do is to give aid to citizens of their countries charged with crimes abroad.

Re:Why expat Americans are giving up their passports by masklinn on Wednesday February 10, 2016 @07:28AM (#11072265)
> For instance many EU countries embassies will give aid to the members of other EU states that do not have local representation.

That's actually part of EU law. As an EU citizen, if you have no national diplomatic or consular representation in the country you're in you're entitled to help from any other EU member's embassy or consulate.

So let's say you're a Slovakian citizen in Sierra Leone, the EU consular protection site will direct you towards the British High Commission in Freetown: http://ec.europa.eu/consularprotection/representations_en?f%...

Re:Why expat Americans are giving up their passports by sschueller on Wednesday February 10, 2016 @08:00AM (#11072411)
Does this list include countries that the US doesn't let you travel to without permission from the state dept.?