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Re:Google's Android Generates $31B Revenue, Oracle Says by daveguy on Thursday January 21, 2016 @06:17PM (#10949327)
You have to pay Oracle to develop Java apps? That is news to me. I thought the idea was to offer the JDK for free to spur adoption. Is that only the JRE? Does the same "no-commerce without paying Oracle" apply to JavaScript or Node.js?
Re:Google's Android Generates $31B Revenue, Oracle Says by enjo on Thursday January 21, 2016 @06:34PM (#10949431)
The case is more complex. Oracle is claiming that Google violated their copyright by cloning Java API's for the Android development kit. They didn't use the code from the Oracle API's, but rather provided the same interfaces only.

Oracle won and now they're going to try to bleed Google dry on the Android front.

Re:Google's Android Generates $31B Revenue, Oracle Says by kenshaw on Thursday January 21, 2016 @06:39PM (#10949468)
I wouldn't say that Oracle won, as I don't believe Google has given up nor do I believe they have exhausted the legal tactics/maneuvers available to them. I fully believe this case will end up in front of the supreme court, as fundamentally this is a 1st amendment issue: do you have the right to say what other people are saying? (that's effectively what re-implementing APIs is).

I believe the 1st amendment provides for this.

My hope is that Google does not settle the case with Oracle, as I'm sure this case shows up at the top of their legal budget.

Re:Google's Android Generates $31B Revenue, Oracle Says by lftl on Thursday January 21, 2016 @07:14PM (#10949685)
Didn't the Supreme Court already turn down the case? Or is there some other avenue of appeal that's yet to be decided?
Re:Google's Android Generates $31B Revenue, Oracle Says by carussell on Thursday January 21, 2016 @07:40PM (#10949839)
The Supreme Court turned down the opportunity to hear Google's arguments that APIs are not protectable by copyright. Turns out, they are, according to the Supreme Court's implicit affirmation of the Federal Circuit's decision.

But "copyright protection can extend to APIs" is all that the courts' decisions amount to so far. As the article says, the case has been remanded back to the district court, which will be trying to answer the question, "Given that APIs are not inherently unprotected, are Google's actions in this case punishable, or did they amount to fair use?"

Here's how that's gonna go:

Allsup is almost definitely going to find it fair use, and (with a little less certainty) the Federal Circuit is going to reverse that decision when Oracle appeals it. At that point, we're back to waiting to see if the Supreme Court will hear Google's arguments, but this time their argument will be that, APIs being unprotected or not, their actions were essentially no different than the ones the Supreme Court determined were defensible in Lexmark v. Static Control in pursuit of interoperability. First Amendment probably won't actually factor in to this.

This is assuming that neither Oracle nor Google capitulates before it makes it that far. Oracle probably won't. Google might.

Re:Google's Android Generates $31B Revenue, Oracle Says by AnimalMuppet on Thursday January 21, 2016 @08:05PM (#10949980)
> The Supreme Court turned down the opportunity to hear Google's arguments that APIs are not protectable by copyright. Turns out, they are, according to the Supreme Court's affirmation the Federal Circuit's decision.

That's not an affirmation. An affirmation would be if the Supreme Court took the case, and agreed with the Federal Court. This is "we're not going to bother", which leaves the decision as good precedent in that Federal court (but not in any other).

Re:Google's Android Generates $31B Revenue, Oracle Says by magicalist on Thursday January 21, 2016 @08:11PM (#10950011)
Yes, it's always worth reiterating that the Federal Circuit's decision is precedent nowhere, not even in the Ninth Circuit where the district court is located.

This is one of the reasons why the FSF, for instance, sided with Google but still urged the Supreme Court not to take the case. They said the GPLed OpenJDK already gave Google the right to the APIs in question, but also noted that there wasn't precedent any court needed to defer to for the Supreme Court to address anyways.

Re:Google's Android Generates $31B Revenue, Oracle Says by carussell on Thursday January 21, 2016 @08:10PM (#10950003)
I originally wrote "implicit affirmation", but edited it out. Hope you didn't downvote the entire comment because of that.
Re:Google's Android Generates $31B Revenue, Oracle Says by magicalist on Thursday January 21, 2016 @08:26PM (#10950079)
There's nothing to infer from a denial of a petition for certiorari, and there's certainly no precedential weight to it. And there's actually precedential weight to the fact that a denial has none :)

It is true that they implicitly affirmed the decision in this particular case, but as to the larger question of copyrightability of APIs, as I mention above, the reasoning for denial could just as easily be they didn't think this case would be a good test for that question for whatever reason.

Wikipedia cites a few cases in which the Supreme Court has explicitly stated this in [1] (see paragraph starting with "Conversely...")

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Certiorari#Federal_courts

Re:Google's Android Generates $31B Revenue, Oracle Says by AnimalMuppet on Thursday January 21, 2016 @08:23PM (#10950060)
Nope, I didn't downvote you. I think the rest of what you wrote is pretty accurate. I also don't think Google will capitulate. I think they're moving to OpenJDK to limit their downside, but I think they're doing it with the idea of fighting it out.
Re:Google's Android Generates $31B Revenue, Oracle Says by iyn on Thursday January 21, 2016 @07:57PM (#10949939)
Also, how does it relate to other JVM languages, like Scala? If Android was written in Scala instead of Java, would this lawsuit still applied?
Re:Google's Android Generates $31B Revenue, Oracle Says by bitmapbrother on Thursday January 21, 2016 @11:34PM (#10950761)
No, the lawsuit (or what remains of it since Oracle lost on all of their patents) centers around the SSO of 37 Java API's (not code implementation, but method signatures and how they are arranged). Oracle is claiming copyright on those 37 Java API's. Oracle has no such control or claim to the Scala API's.
Re:Google's Android Generates $31B Revenue, Oracle Says by aaronkrolik on Thursday January 21, 2016 @08:36PM (#10950132)
Not if you use openjdk.
Re:Google's Android Generates $31B Revenue, Oracle Says by 0x4a6f6579 on Thursday January 21, 2016 @07:00PM (#10949596)
When using Java, use is subject to Oracle Binary Code License Agreement (http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/terms/license/...). In this license use and distribution of the JRE & JDK are granted except for a few particular situations, outlined in various sections of the license.

Simply the act of "develop[ing] Java apps" falls entirely within a fair interpretation of the license. The difference is best understood in the Solicitor General's Brief (pg. 5 http://www.scribd.com/doc/266703948/Goog-v-Oracle-Solicitor-...):

Although a Java programmer is free to write new code from scratch without relying on prewritten methods, the Java Standard Library provides convenient building blocks for writing computer programs.

Although respondent [Oracle] does not claim a copyright interest in the Java language itself, respondent owns a copyright in the Java Standard Library. Pet App. 7. Respondent makes the Java Standard Library available to computer programmers under any of three copyright licenses, including a conditional royalty-free license. See id. at 7-8.

On page 7: Petitioner [Google] assets that it copied the declaring code so that programmers familiar with the Java platform would be able to switch over to the Android platform without having to learn entirely new commands for invoking commonly used methods.

In total, petitioner copied approximately 7000 lines of declaring code.

Herein lies the core issue -- Google did not have a prearranged license agreement to copy the declaring code of Java's standard library, and in doing so infringed on the copyright by using it in their own platform.

Section F of the Oracle Binary Code License reads JAVA TECHNOLOGY RESTRICTIONS. You may not create, modify, or change the behavior of, or authorize your licensees to create, modify, or change the behavior of, classes, interfaces, or subpackages that are in any way identified as "java", "javax", "sun", “oracle” or similar convention as specified by Oracle in any naming convention designation.

tldr; Consider a painting created by an artist. A photographer comes along and thinks, "great painting!" and snaps a photo. If the photographer goes on to distribute and replicate the photograph of this painting (without an agreement with the artist) and earns a profit, the photographer has infringed on the artist's copyright.

Re:Google's Android Generates $31B Revenue, Oracle Says by hammock on Thursday January 21, 2016 @07:30PM (#10949778)
Try a different example, because art appropriation is pretty well-developed. http://www.theverge.com/2015/5/30/8691257/richard-prince-ins...
Re:Google's Android Generates $31B Revenue, Oracle Says by 0x4a6f6579 on Thursday January 21, 2016 @08:32PM (#10950106)
Take your own advice, that article concludes with "Patent and copyright attorney John Arsenault told Fstoppers that New Portraits, although it looks like a case of outright plagiarism, might be a little more complex if it were argued in a legal context."

Meaning it is (or was) not, at the time the issue arose.

Additionally, in a legal context it is "more complex" because the artist marketed these as vignettes of his Instagram feed. To prove copyright infringement, one would establish copyright ownership of the artist's feed. Who own's a particular user's Instagram feed -- the user, Instagram, or is it shared copyright of all entities listed within the feed? To enforce copyright the latter would need to be true since the artwork is marketed as part of a social media feed.

Re:Google's Android Generates $31B Revenue, Oracle Says by mjevans on Thursday January 21, 2016 @07:27PM (#10949765)
An API is not a painting. It is a set of facts.
Re:Google's Android Generates $31B Revenue, Oracle Says by 0x4a6f6579 on Thursday January 21, 2016 @08:35PM (#10950126)
It is true an API is not a painting, but this is not a claim I made. The API specified in these legal matters is work product created on behalf of a legal entity who has a claim to its copyright that is legally filed and maintained. Both Google and Oracle agree on that fact according to the document I linked. If you still disagree, take it up with those parties.
Re:Google's Android Generates $31B Revenue, Oracle Says by lsaferite on Friday January 22, 2016 @08:03AM (#10952433)
Seems more like the photographer saw the painting, found the composition pleasing, then recreated that composition in real life for a photo.