Re:The Wretched Table: How Dinner in America Became an Ordeal
by jtchang on Sunday October 04, 2015 @09:17PM
(#10329519)
Why do people say it only takes 10 more minutes to make the food? They never factor in the time it takes to mentally prepare what you are going to make, go out and get ingredients, prep the food, then clean up afterwards. It is never just 10 more minutes.
Re:The Wretched Table: How Dinner in America Became an Ordeal
by whistlerbrk on Sunday October 04, 2015 @10:52PM
(#10329729)
Seriously. CLEAN AS YOU COOK. It drives me insane that people don't get this. When I'm done with a meal I have a few plates to clean and maybe one pot. That's it though. Everything goes away when I'm cooking. Scraps constantly thrown in the compost. It makes you much more mentally organized.
It's an obvious source of fluster and stress for my friends who don't. They never seem to figure it out either. Even when I do it for them.
Plus. Stop determining what you want to eat first. Look at what you have in your fridge and learn to work with it. Have a few proteins and a few cheeses and kitchen basics and you can improvise many things.
Re:The Wretched Table: How Dinner in America Became an Ordeal
by mhink on Monday October 05, 2015 @12:48AM
(#10330022)
I figure the main difficulty lies in the "economics" part of "home economics". There's a huge efficiency difference between "cooking every day" and "only cooking occasionally". The only way to benefit from cooking at home is if you accept the ongoing cost of keeping essentials stocked. Then, you have to accept that you're going to waste a considerable amount of money and time while you're learning to cook. When I started, it sometimes took an hour or more to get food on the table because I hadn't figured out mise en place. Then, when I did, I ruined more than one dish because I lost track of things and something got overcooked or burnt. Finally, I've had a certain amount of food go to waste because of bad planning- perhaps I bought too much for the week, and then went shopping the next week without keeping the existing "stock" in mind.
These are all huge stumbling blocks- especially when it's so easy to just order take-out, which will at least be consistently edible, with the added bonus of not resulting in wasted ingredients.
What ultimately turned it around for me was when my girlfriend and I decided to fully commit to cooking at home, and went and spent $150 on groceries- but instead of buying ingredients, we bought pantry essentials. Flour, sugar, baling powder, baking soda, cornmeal, table and kosher salt, seasonings, potatoes, rice, pasta, and so on. Not to mention an initial stock of perishable basics: onions, garlic, lemons, limes, milk, butter, eggs, and cheese.
While it left a dent in our wallet at the time, it turned out to be a game-changer. We found that it was immensely easier to plan meals, because we already had half the ingredients of any given recipe.
This is a huge societal problem, in my opinion. I'm a pretty privileged dude when it comes down to it, and I was able to absorb the inefficiency of not being able to cook at home while still eating pretty healthy food. Furthermore, I was able to get over the hump of figuring out how to cook on my own, because I had the resources to absorb the inefficiency of learning how to do it.
Re:The Wretched Table: How Dinner in America Became an Ordeal
by brandonmenc on Monday October 05, 2015 @01:09AM
(#10330066)
Most pantry essentials are only purchased once or twice a year. So, you just spend a year accumulating that stuff, and eat beans and rice in the meantime.
And you buy cheap. A jar of spice from McCormick might cost five bucks, but you can get the same amount in a plastic bag at the bodega for a dollar. And really, you don't need two kinds of salt.
If you're one of the fortunate poor, your immigrant parents/grandparents have already taught you how to cook.
It's really quite a foreign idea to me that cooking for yourself is expensive, even though I hear that all the time from people my age and younger. Maybe they all think you need to cook elaborate meals. But when you look at the way immigrants cook, it's really just a small set of cheap ingredients combined a bunch of different ways.
Re:The Wretched Table: How Dinner in America Became an Ordeal
by exstudent2 on Monday October 05, 2015 @12:51PM
(#10333067)
To be fair, the way most immigrants cook isn't really replicable by people who are working.
It may be cheap in terms of ingredients but in traditional immigrant households the mother and often grandmother don't have jobs and stay at home all day cooking. They use cheap ingredients but it's a TON of work.
When my wife's mom (who's not from the US) comes to visit, she starts cooking early in the morning and doesn't finish until dinner. It probably takes longer than it would if she had her flow setup since she has to prepare basics that we don't have ready, but still a lot of traditional dishes take a lot of time.
Things are often slow cooked for example because cheap cuts of meat are used and you need to do that to make them edible. Most office workers won't have time to do that.
Re:The Wretched Table: How Dinner in America Became an Ordeal
by brandonmenc on Tuesday October 06, 2015 @03:37PM
(#10341722)
> Things are often slow cooked
Buy a slow cooker (aka crock pot) and leave it running while you're at work.
> They use cheap ingredients but it's a TON of work.
Do this type of cooking for your meal bases in a single day.
In my house, mom worked 40 hours but would get a giant pot of red sauce and a giant pot of pasta e fagioli going on Saturday morning - maybe 30-60 minutes of prep, then all day to cook - unattended except for the occasional stir. This would yield enough soup and sauce for a week of dinners for a family of four - just add pasta.
Friends from other backgrounds describe similar techniques with things like refried beans, etc.
Re:The Wretched Table: How Dinner in America Became an Ordeal
by Symbiote on Monday October 05, 2015 @03:05AM
(#10330299)
Don't wealthier Americans learn these skills at college?
I learnt how to cook properly at university (UK). I'd watched my mum a fair amount growing up, and in the final few weeks before I left she showed me things like how to shallow fry chicken, or check it was cooked.
I ate takeaway on the day I arrived, since everyone was too drunk, but on Sunday I paired up with people living on the same floor and cooked with them for the rest of the year.
It cost a fraction of what takeaway food would have cost, and we weren't trying to be super cheap.
Re:The Wretched Table: How Dinner in America Became an Ordeal
by dragonwriter on Tuesday October 06, 2015 @04:29PM
(#10342129)
> Don't wealthier Americans learn these skills at college?
Some learn while in college, but lots just buy a meal plan from the school or get takeout a lot (and/or "instant meals") and learn nothing about cooking.
> I'd watched my mum a fair amount growing up, and in the final few weeks before I left she showed me things like how to shallow fry chicken, or check it was cooked.
It seems to me lots of Americans don't get even this level of basics (and, with it, the confidence to actually be willing to try things in the kitchen) growing up, and that that's the problem.
Re:The Wretched Table: How Dinner in America Became an Ordeal
by Symbiote on Monday October 05, 2015 @04:32AM
(#10330500)
"Wealthy" was the wrong word — I meant anyone that goes to university, at least.
I emigrated six weeks ago, so I have to restart my "pantry essentials". I didn't buy everything in the first week, I will buy things gradually. I bought things like canned tomatoes, mixed herbs, pepper, salt; plus things that are used a lot quicker (rice, butter, noodles, onions, garlic). Last week I fancied Thai food, so I bought some fish sauce, lemongrass etc. It will take a year before I have all the spices and sauces I left behind.
Re:The Wretched Table: How Dinner in America Became an Ordeal
by brandonmenc on Sunday October 04, 2015 @11:05PM
(#10329768)
> Stop determining what you want to eat first. Look at what you have in your fridge and learn to work with it.
Yes, this.
Always have the essentials stocked for your repertoire.
I grew up Italian-American, so we always had: onions, garlic, lemon, parsley, green peppers, sausage, tomato paste, anchovies, pasta, a few types of beans, grated cheese, olive oil, balsamic, etc.
Add some random meats or fresh vegetables, and you've got like, a hundred different recipes right there.
> Seriously. CLEAN AS YOU COOK. It drives me insane that people don't get this.
So many, many people don't understand this. My mom DRILLED this into my head as a kid. When I'm cooking with a friend who doesn't clean as they cook, I usually just hand them a glass of wine and kick them out of the kitchen.
Re:The Wretched Table: How Dinner in America Became an Ordeal
by cardamomo on Sunday October 04, 2015 @11:01PM
(#10329759)
I second everything you're saying, but I recognize that cleaning as you cook, composting, stocking your kitchen smartly, and improvising menus are very difficult skills for many people to attain.
Re:The Wretched Table: How Dinner in America Became an Ordeal
by dingaling on Monday October 05, 2015 @03:19AM
(#10330324)
We do try to follow the aggregation approach in our household but it still averages out as the same amount of preparation time per meal; time required to prepare ingredients scales linearly with their volume.
plus it wipes-out one of our only two days off together.
Unless you have huge freezer space that can accommodate multi-week batches there's no real way around that.
Re:The Wretched Table: How Dinner in America Became an Ordeal
by brandonmenc on Sunday October 04, 2015 @10:56PM
(#10329740)
There's nothing wrong with making a quick stop in the middle of the week to pick up leafy greens and other perishables. But quick is the key.
I also really like frozen vegetables - green beans, broccoli and cauliflower florets, etc. I don't understand the stigma against them, particularly if they're organic.
Re:The Wretched Table: How Dinner in America Became an Ordeal
by moron4hire on Sunday October 04, 2015 @11:24PM
(#10329824)
Vegetables take longer than a week to become inedible. It's the week-and-a-half mark where they start to get limp and questionable. It's the two-week mark where they start to rot completely. If you have a problem with rotting vegetables (bought from the grocery store, fresh out of a garden are much more durable), then you're keeping them longer than you think.
Meat goes bad much more quickly. If I'm not eating meat within two--maaaybe three--days of purchasing it, I will freeze it.
Re:The Wretched Table: How Dinner in America Became an Ordeal
by Symbiote on Monday October 05, 2015 @05:17AM
(#10330646)
Just before vegetables are approaching the rotting stage, they're still fine for a hearty soup. Scrub them if they're dirty, chop them into rough 1cm cubes, cook in a litre of stock, and blend (or not) when they're cooked.
Since I live alone, I tend to buy vegetables once a week, and meat on my way home if I'm sure I'll use it — I'm prone to wasting it otherwise. I go past at least four small supermarkets on my way home from work (30 minutes by bicycle). I have some frozen fish too, since it's quick to defrost, and bacon, since it keeps for ages. I have no problem making a vegetarian meal (chickpeas, tofu etc -- these keep indefinitely).
Re:The Wretched Table: How Dinner in America Became an Ordeal
by pbreit on Sunday October 04, 2015 @09:31PM
(#10329550)
Blue Apron has been a revelation for us in this regard. We went from rarely eating lousy food together to frequently eating great food together. Even when I try to recreate the meals on my own it's a hassle.
Re:The Wretched Table: How Dinner in America Became an Ordeal
by mratzloff on Sunday October 04, 2015 @10:02PM
(#10329610)
Your condescending comment missing the point. Not all of us live in "walkable neighborhoods of low-rise apartments with little shops on the first floor," nor necessarily want to. I live in a single family house in a residential area of Seattle. I'm pretty happy here, but I have to drive 10 minutes to one of a few nearby grocery stores. Grocery shopping is my least favorite thing to do on the planet, so if I can pay a service to do it for me and think up meals for me to cook, I'm sold.
Re:The Wretched Table: How Dinner in America Became an Ordeal
by pbreit on Monday October 05, 2015 @12:38AM
(#10330000)
I didn't see the comment but sounds ill-informed. I can walk to Trader Joe's but that's not the point at all. First, it's figuring out what you want to eat. Then finding a recipe. Then getting the ingredients. Then figuring out the recipe since there's so much inconsistency on recipe quality. Etc. Blue Apron is $10/portion which is pretty reasonable. The recipes are easy to follow and fairly healthy. We don't get much choice but have been very pleased so far with all the meals for 6 months or so. I've picked a few which I can now prepare by myself with good results. One of the reasons I like Blue Apron vs Din (even though Din meals are much better) is that I actually do feel like I am learning to cook from scratch.
Re:The Wretched Table: How Dinner in America Became an Ordeal
by rwmj on Monday October 05, 2015 @04:15AM
(#10330461)
Then finding a recipe. Then getting the ingredients
This is the bit you're doing backwards. Type the ingredients you've got into Google, along with "recipe" and see what you fancy eating.
Now having said that, I do sympathize with posters who think cooking is time-consuming and hard. At the age of about 25 I specifically set about learning to cook, and it took me probably 5 years before I got good at it, and another 5 years before I was able to conjure a meal from bits and pieces of unpromising leftover ingredients.
Re:The Wretched Table: How Dinner in America Became an Ordeal
by eropple on Monday October 05, 2015 @01:58AM
(#10330163)
I'm glad it works for you, but $10/portion is crazy to me. I cook from scratch and average around $5/portion, and it adds up. (I cook in bulk a little more than Blue Apron wants you to, though, as it's mostly cooking for me.)
Re:The Wretched Table: How Dinner in America Became an Ordeal
by pbreit on Monday October 05, 2015 @02:54AM
(#10330281)
For something that approaches restaurant quality and might include beef, lamb, seafood or fresh pasta, it's a decent price point, imo. Hardly "crazy" I would say.
Re:The Wretched Table: How Dinner in America Became an Ordeal
by rmxt on Monday October 05, 2015 @10:21AM
(#10331956)
I used a referral sample for one shipment of meals for two. There was a choice of 3 out of 6 options for your shipment. There were seafood, beef, chicken, and three vegetarian options on the menu. However, you were restricted in your choice of three, and couldn't do {Beef, Chicken, Seafood}, which basically meant you would be paying $20 for a pasta dish for two, because you also couldn't pick {Beef, chicken, heartier non-meat option}. The total cost of ingredients was probably less than $15, maybe less than $10, for the pasta dish. It's hard to justify that as a value proposition in my book. Overall, the quality of the ingredients wasn't anything more special than what a local, non-budget, supermarket would carry in my market (NYC). (In fact, some of the labels on the ingredients seemed familiar from local delivery trucks in the area.) I agree with the GP: $10 a portion for a home cooked meal is expensive, <$5 is ideal. At $10 a portion, why make your own food, when you can get a gourmet healthy meal when you eat out?
When all was said and done, I felt that the best value proposition would be to just go on the Blue Apron website, look at the recipes, buy dry good ingredients in bulk, and make the recipes myself as time went on, buying the fresh ingredients as needed. As always, YMMV.
Edit: as many others have also pointed out, the packaging is "neat", and probably necessary for their workflow, but it feels ever so wasteful. You could supply a kindergarten arts and craft class with leftover materials from each shipment.
Re:The Wretched Table: How Dinner in America Became an Ordeal
by rmxt on Monday October 05, 2015 @01:15PM
(#10333243)
Well, if this was a one off occasion for forcing a pasta option, it possibly cost them a customer. If I picked two meats, I was forced the pasta option. I couldn't pick 2 meats + lentil option, or 2 meats + vegetable salad option. The pasta was good, but I felt a little cheated when I was forced to get it, especially at the hypothetical price of $10 per plate.
Perhaps it seemed that I suggested you could get a healthy meal + restaurant experience for under $10, but I was more thinking take-out options. Whole Foods' hot and cold (salad) buffet bar is like $9 per pound if I remember correctly. [1] Fairway, a competitor to Whole Foods in NYC, has a deli counter or buffet bar where you can get close to 1lb of veggies + grains + meat for under $10. [2] The only way Blue Apron makes sense over Fairway and Whole Foods, to me, is if you are either looking for the experience of cooking, or if you are a variety fiend and are going to tire of the flavors that the supermarkets use.
Re:The Wretched Table: How Dinner in America Became an Ordeal
by rmxt on Tuesday October 06, 2015 @09:26AM
(#10338681)
Do you really think that the ingredients that Whole Foods/Fairway uses are much different than what Blue Apron is shipping you? I have no illusions about Whole Foods being any more "organic" or "natural" than any other supermarket, but, if anything I would venture to say that they use the same, if not fresher, ingredients than what Blue Apron can get you. There's pretty much zero "mystery mix" factor associated with the cold salad bar at Whole Foods. I'm guessing you've never seen one of the Whole Foods hot buffets either, because it looks perfectly appetiizing every time I've gone there from 11am to 7pm. (Peak meal times)
Also, how do you figure that the Whole Foods "salad with meat" is more expensive? You're getting a pound of prepared food for $9: hot, cold, meat, vegetarian, salad, whatever you want. The Blue Apron portions do not contain a pound of food.
You seem pretty closed minded with respect to your meal planning. [1] Best of luck. Getting things delivered to you in 15 tiny little plastic baggies, with limited protein choices, seems pretty boring and ineffective to me, but, different strokes for different folks.
Re:The Wretched Table: How Dinner in America Became an Ordeal
by pbreit on Tuesday October 06, 2015 @01:34PM
(#10340698)
I've eaten the Whole Foods buffets dozens of times. Never for under $10/portion (even before tax). Absolutely it's tubs of slop with unknown ingredients that sit there for long periods of time under heat lamps. The article you cited said your preferred meal is going to be well over $10 unless you cut out the meat. Many people like Blue Apron specifically for the variety!! That they would never get at a buffet or cooking without help! Blue Apron meals are more than 1 lb of food.
I am quite open minded about my meal planning. I do Blue Apron, Din, Soylent, Caviar/fastbite, local delivery, Sprig, Munchery, Trader Joes pre-made and scratch, Whole Foods buffet, mall food court (we have a great one in SF), etc. My sense is that you don't really know what you're talking about.
Re:The Wretched Table: How Dinner in America Became an Ordeal
by pbreit on Tuesday October 06, 2015 @01:27PM
(#10340612)
The only way that could happen is if you are blocking 1 of the 3 meats for that week. Otherwise, you will always be able to get 3 meat dishes every week.
Re:The Wretched Table: How Dinner in America Became an Ordeal
by moron4hire on Monday October 05, 2015 @02:07AM
(#10330178)
Figure out what you want to eat: generally, people fall into a few habitual meals, even when they're eating out all the time.
Finding a recipe: skip this. It's a waste of time. I haven't followed a recipe for anything that wasn't a cake in the last 15 years.
Getting the ingredients: you have the causality reversed. You choose the meals based on what you have, not what you will have based on what meals you want.
Figure out the recipe: see point #2, but also, recipes are extremely standardized. It's your failure to have learned the language that is the problem.
Re:The Wretched Table: How Dinner in America Became an Ordeal
by matwood on Sunday October 04, 2015 @10:50PM
(#10329727)
I agree with you about grocery shopping being horrible. My local store offers an online service where I can pick what I want and just swing by and pick it up on the way home for a $5 fee. That has saved tons of time, but having to always think of things to cook can be annoying. I may give Blue Apron a shot and see how it works. It's just so easy to eat a frozen pizza or get take out instead of dealing the mental work of planning a meal after working all day.
Re:The Wretched Table: How Dinner in America Became an Ordeal
by harryh on Sunday October 04, 2015 @10:17PM
(#10329640)
I live in Manhattan, one of the most walkable places in the US. And I love Blue Apron. It saves me an enormous amount of time in planning & shopping, it's close to the same cost as shopping, and I end up making things I never would have thought of myself.
I'll be the first to admit that it's cooking with training wheels, but I'm a busy professional with a young child. Anything that can save me time and stress is well worth it.
Re:The Wretched Table: How Dinner in America Became an Ordeal
by mratzloff on Sunday October 04, 2015 @09:54PM
(#10329602)
Oh man, I wish I could up vote this comment more than once. I had never heard about this service but it looks perfect for me. I love to cook but hate grocery shopping or planning meals. I'm starting to get into other services like these. For example, I've started to use Trunk Club for clothing with good results.
Re:The Wretched Table: How Dinner in America Became an Ordeal
by onecommentjust on Sunday October 04, 2015 @10:54PM
(#10329734)
The guy you replied to doesn't have an email address in his profile. How did you "send him a free week to try it out"? Does Hacker News have some sort of user-to-user communication that I'm not aware of?
Re:The Wretched Table: How Dinner in America Became an Ordeal
by stouset on Sunday October 04, 2015 @10:38PM
(#10329690)
My bullshit detector is pinging wildly on the linked diet. Gluten-free, measured salt intake, 6 glasses of water per day, and the list goes on. No thanks — I'll take my diet advice from people that follow the science, not pop trends.
Re:The Wretched Table: How Dinner in America Became an Ordeal
by douche on Sunday October 04, 2015 @09:30PM
(#10329545)
I'm always kind of surprised when I encounter people that go purchase ingredients for nearly every meal. Then again, where I grew up, unless it was something like bread, milk, or eggs, going to the store meant driving half an hour. We had a chest freezer full of beef and broccoli and a a basement room full of jars of green beans and tomatoes. Not really a realistic option living in an apartment or a suburb with postage-stamp yards, I suppose
Lots of family time planting, weeding, picking and processing all those damned vegetables, though...
Re:The Wretched Table: How Dinner in America Became an Ordeal
by moron4hire on Sunday October 04, 2015 @10:15PM
(#10329634)
Every single one of the opinions in this thread, as well as that of the original article, are completely alien to me.
Dinner in my household is not difficult or fussy or unhealthy or expensive or bland.
We don't buy food every day, but we also don't buy processed food. We eat fresh meat and vegetables, with small servings of simple carbohydrates, going to the grocery store once a week. Our trips come out to about $100 total, which is about $2/meal per person.
I make dinner from scratch almost every night. I design it to leave leftovers for lunch the next day. It takes no more time to make four servings than two for most things. This means that the time I spend on dinner saves time on lunch.
Once a week, I make a meal designed to leave a LOT of leftovers, like a roast chicken or tacos or chili. Roast chicken takes a long time to cook, but takes almost no prep-time. Tacos take a little prep time, but almost no time to cook. Chili takes a lot of prep time, a lot of cooking time (if you want to do it right), but makes so damn much that we freeze half so we don't burn out on eating it for the entirety of the week.
And don't get me wrong: we don't eat the same thing every night. I'm somewhat of a fussy eater. I don't mean there are only a few things that I will eat, I mean I am very intolerant of poorly prepared food. We eat extremely well in my house.
Oh yeah, there are nights where I say to myself, "damn, I'm just too tired to make anything special". That's when we eat the leftover, frozen chili. Or I dice up the leftover chicken from the roast and make a chicken salad out of it and we have sandwiches. Or we have tacos a second night, because we freakin' love tacos (I could eat tacos for every meal, and I know this because I have done it before).
Eating well doesn't mean complexity, it doesn't mean expense. Simple food, the right symphony of spices, and the correct cooking method. It's no different than programming.
Re:The Wretched Table: How Dinner in America Became an Ordeal
by Idontagree on Sunday October 04, 2015 @10:22PM
(#10329657)
So you have someone to do the dishes? Not everyone has children or someone else around to do it for them. There's also the extra laundry it makes if you don't use paper napkins/placemats. It's nice to have the time to do it, but it's not the quickest thing you can do in an evening.
Re:The Wretched Table: How Dinner in America Became an Ordeal
by moron4hire on Sunday October 04, 2015 @10:32PM
(#10329675)
We have a dishwasher and run it once every other day. The pots have to be washed by hand, but if you aren't burning your food like a newb, pots are the easiest thing to clean because they're optimized for surface area versus volume.
Hell, some things like knives and cutting boards, I clean while I'm cooking. While I'm waiting for something to finish roasting or frying, I'm already cleaning my work area. Usually, the only dishes that are left over are plates, forks, and glasses.
And it's part of the day. Brushing your teeth takes time. Taking a shower takes time. Getting dressed takes time. You have to decide that you are a person who takes time to cook, not spend 15 more minutes on Twitter.
I'm not some rural hippy who has no real job, living off of the land, disconnected from the pace of life. We live the DC metro area. And by that, I don't mean we live in a mansion in Herndon or Reston, I mean we live in an a small apartment in Alexandria. I'm the CTO of a technology consulting firm. We have only one car between my wife and me, which she drives, and I take public transit everywhere.
Re:The Wretched Table: How Dinner in America Became an Ordeal
by pjc50 on Monday October 05, 2015 @02:16AM
(#10330197)
I have placemats, because I don't want hot plates on my nice table. But they don't require frequent cleaning. In any case they're plastic fake leather.
Re:The Wretched Table: How Dinner in America Became an Ordeal
by Symbiote on Monday October 05, 2015 @05:09AM
(#10330615)
This sounds more-or-less like how I started cooking when I was 18 (2004), in the first year of university.
We probably had a bit more "bland" — I couldn't help being British — but we'd also go shopping once a week, cook most evenings, and vary between short/long prep/cooking time things. We'd sometimes use semi-prepared foods, (British-)Indian curry pastes were used relatively often, but something like a "make tacos kit" was expensive for what it contained, and only used once or twice before we'd work out how to make it ourselves.
Also, being four 18 year olds, we were never able to make leftovers last until the next day :-D
(None of this was unusual in Britain; /not/ doing this was unusual.)
Re:The Wretched Table: How Dinner in America Became an Ordeal
by parennoob on Sunday October 04, 2015 @09:03PM
(#10329478)
Completely anecdotal, but I suspect some part of this comes from modern Americans' desire to have a meal that has a specific name and must be made with an oddly specific recipe that uses the exact ingredients. Apparently "thing of tomatoes and eggplant with some bread" is not acceptable – but when some chef puts the same recipe in a magazine and labels it "rustic Mediterranean bruschetta", people are all over it.
Re:The Wretched Table: How Dinner in America Became an Ordeal
by Spooky23 on Sunday October 04, 2015 @10:14PM
(#10329629)
Some of it is the agony of choice, and the effectiveness of marketing.
If my dad woke up in 1975 where he lived in Brooklyn and decided that he wanted a Greek yogurt fresh blueberry and organic granola parfait... Well too fucking bad. Best case, you had a tub of Dannon plain yogurt and a bag of frozen berries.
Now everything is available all of the time, and that hyper-specialization of everything has eliminated cheap stuff that everyone bought to get by. Something like flank steak used to be sold for pennies on the dollar, now I see it prices the same as a strip steak!
Re:The Wretched Table: How Dinner in America Became an Ordeal
by henrikschroder on Monday October 05, 2015 @02:30AM
(#10330229)
My pet peeve in discussions like this is that people insist on looking up or following recipes, slavishly, as if that's the key to making a good meal.
It's not. If you don't know how to cook, buy a cookbook, one that has the fundamentals in it, one that teaches you about meat and bread and vegetables and starch and sauces and fish and condiments. And once you've learned the basics of "frying meat" or "cooking pasta", you can easily start to combine what you've learned into meals, and you can more easily follow recipes for variations or ideas on how to spice it or prepare it or present it.
Re:The Wretched Table: How Dinner in America Became an Ordeal
by wj on Monday October 05, 2015 @08:26AM
(#10331315)
I really love Ad Hoc at Home for this. It is Thomas Keller's most accessible book and in addition to recipes contains instructions for things like piecing out a chicken. I've bought the book as a gift at least a half-dozen times.
But, I do believe as you allude to in your last sentence that nothing takes the place of practice. I think a lot of people get overwhelmed looking at a list of ingredients. With experience you know what ones are critical to the dish and what can be left out or substituted as you have learned tastes and can intuitively understand measurements.
Re:The Wretched Table: How Dinner in America Became an Ordeal
by henrikschroder on Monday October 05, 2015 @02:40PM
(#10333848)
Yeah, what recipe collections don't tell you is that you need a lot of practice to be able to follow them, I've found that the hardest part of cooking is getting the timing right, and that just takes a lot of tries to get right and understand.
And to circle back to the article, I think a lot of young people in America simply don't even get to try cooking for themselves the way society is organized.
When I started university and moved out of my parent's home, I didn't move into a dorm with a cafeteria, instead I moved into a small student apartment. If I wanted dinner each night, it was completely up to me. Frozen pan pizza gets kinda boring, so I had to start cooking for myself.
Re:The Wretched Table: How Dinner in America Became an Ordeal
by moron4hire on Sunday October 04, 2015 @10:22PM
(#10329655)
If you want to eat better without breaking the bank and without wasting food to rot: buy the cheaper, bulk packs of meat. Optimize for price per pound. Pork loin, chicken thighs, beef roasts, in as big of packages as you can find. When you get home, split them into single-meal proportions and repackage them in good quality ziplock bags, remembering to squeeze as much air out as you can. Put them straight in the freezer.
Then, when you want to have a meal, fill your kitchen sink full of hot water, maybe half-full, and throw one of those ziplock bags in. In 15 to 30 minutes, the meat will be completely thawed and you can cook whatever you want.
Given the right recipe, you might even be able to work the thaw time into the vegetable prep time.
EDIT: There are three other options for defrosting meat: in fridge, on the counter, and in the microwave, in order of speed from slowest to fastest. In the fridge takes extreme pre-knowledge: you practically have to do it the night before, and I am too fussy of an eater to know what I will want to eat a day ahead of time. On the counter is same-day, but has to be done in the morning, plus some people might be squeamish about leaving meat out at room temperature for several hours. Using the microwave takes 15 to 30 minutes, but is imperfect and often ends up cooking the meat to a certain degree. In short, the waterbath method is the most convenient defrosting method.
Re:The Wretched Table: How Dinner in America Became an Ordeal
by barry-cotter on Monday October 05, 2015 @04:18AM
(#10330468)
This is the sort of comment that makes me aware of how alien even very similar cultures can be. I'm Irish and I grew up there. I had never defrosted anything in a fridge before moving to Shanghai. It was all either countertop defrosting or hot water. I wouldn't defrost fish in hot water because it'll cook or let it defrost at room temperature for more than an hour which should be plenty for most fish. If room temperature where you live is above 20 or so degrees you probably shouldn't counter top defrost unless you can check it regularly to see if it's done and
Hot water isn't really that bad for bacterial growth. Lukewarm water is the enemy but even that's fine as long as you cook the meat within half an hour of taking it out of the fridge for defrosting. If you're taking longer z than half an hour that's a substantial cut off meat and you really should be able to plan a day ahead.
Re:The Wretched Table: How Dinner in America Became an Ordeal
by pjc50 on Monday October 05, 2015 @02:21AM
(#10330208)
This isn't about the mechanics of cooking. It isn't really even about food. It's about social expectation, and the unreachable perfection of TV lifestyles, and family, and the end of passing down certain skills matrilinearly while they are not yet taught equally to kids. It's also about time and money.
Re:The Wretched Table: How Dinner in America Became an Ordeal
by rdl on Sunday October 04, 2015 @09:23PM
(#10329529)
None of this seems to apply if you don't have children. I've never had this kind of stressful meal (on a recurring basis) with friends, housemates, colleagues, conference friends, customers or other work people, or significant others. Sure, maybe one-off unpleasant conversation or something ("we need to discuss the production outage which affected our site last week"), but not on a repeated basis.
Whether you cook from scratch, make some kind of prepared food or leftovers, have take-out/delivery, or go out to eat seems irrelevant by comparison.
Re:The Wretched Table: How Dinner in America Became an Ordeal
by Spooky23 on Sunday October 04, 2015 @10:07PM
(#10329617)
As as society, we're all agitated about dinner because we're trained to be by billions in ad spending. Part of that is a self loathing of one of the key elements of the dinner meal -- culture. Nothing is good enough.
My sister is a good example of this. She picked up a crazy, pain in the ass fad diet, has two kids and high powered corporate gig. Her husband is in a similar gig. The kids are in care from 7-7. So yeah, even buying a vegan, glueten free burrito is a pain in the ass. I worry about her, as she's going to have an anxiety attack someday.
Re:The Wretched Table: How Dinner in America Became an Ordeal
by tsotha on Monday October 05, 2015 @04:53AM
(#10330569)
The "Norman Rockwell dinner" is definitely doable - my family did it when I was growing up. But my mother didn't work outside the house, so she could shop during the day and thaw frozen meats and what not while working mothers are still trying to get away from the office.
That, I think, is the key. It's not reasonable to expect a big production dinner when both parents have full time jobs, particularly professionals who have to work late on occasion. That takes a level of organization most people just don't have.
Re:The Wretched Table: How Dinner in America Became an Ordeal
by brandonmenc on Sunday October 04, 2015 @09:10PM
(#10329504)
> At home one night after my meal with Ochs, as I labored to make pasta sauce from scratch while a child wailed at my feet
Everyone knows you start the gravy (aka sauce) in a big pot on Saturday morning, make the kids stir it all day long, then heat it up for quick dinners throughout the week.
Re:The Wretched Table: How Dinner in America Became an Ordeal
by WalterSear on Sunday October 04, 2015 @08:52PM
(#10329444)
The comments by the parents to their children made me cringe.
It's hard to read this and come away from it feeling that the problem is anything more than willfully ignorant parents (healthy eating information isn't hard to come by), indolently wallowing in their lack of self-awareness and inconsistencies.
Re:The Wretched Table: How Dinner in America Became an Ordeal
by shaftoe on Sunday October 04, 2015 @08:57PM
(#10329464)
The spaghettios and burritos comment rang true, however. Particularly for families with both parents working.
I get how some people derive great pleasure from making a meal from scratch, but for people in a great hurry, it's one of many checkboxes. And time spent stirring a pot or slicing vegetables is hardly quality family time.
Re:The Wretched Table: How Dinner in America Became an Ordeal
by shaftoe on Sunday October 04, 2015 @09:21PM
(#10329526)
Totally agreed, but the fish sticks come out because dinner has to happen every single day, no matter what else has come up.
As an example, I take my kids camping a few times a year. I show them all kinds of things, like how to stake a tent, how to make a fire safely, etc.
If we had to do these things every single day just to cook and go to sleep, I suspect it would quickly devolve into running through the chores as quickly as possible while they stand to the side and poke at ant mounds with sticks.
We do make healthy quality meals and involve the kids with what we're doing, but this is certainly not an every night thing. Often, it's much easier to simply find a way to solve the problem and move on.
Re:The Wretched Table: How Dinner in America Became an Ordeal
by moron4hire on Sunday October 04, 2015 @10:36PM
(#10329685)
If you had to do these things every day, you'd get better at them and the kids would get good enough at them that they could do some things without your direct supervision all the time and you'd get used to them that they wouldn't be a significant distraction from your day.
Re:The Wretched Table: How Dinner in America Became an Ordeal
by fredkbloggs on Sunday October 04, 2015 @09:06PM
(#10329487)
> time spent stirring a pot or slicing vegetables is hardly quality family time
Teaching one's offspring what is and is not good to eat is perhaps the oldest and most fundamental task associated with raising young. It predates humanity by millions of years. If that is not "quality family time", I can't fathom what is.
Re:The Wretched Table: How Dinner in America Became an Ordeal
by archimedespi on Sunday October 04, 2015 @08:57PM
(#10329466)
> It's hard to read this and come away from it feeling that the problem is anything more than willfully ignorant parents (healthy eating information isn't hard to come by), indolently wallowing in their lack of self-awareness and inconsistencies.
> In other words, normal people.
As much as this looks like a rude thing to say, (and it kind of is), it's really quite true and I've experienced similar things with various parents I've seen (thankfully not mine).
Re:The Wretched Table: How Dinner in America Became an Ordeal
by hugh4 on Sunday October 04, 2015 @09:07PM
(#10329492)
Isn't this whole thing just another case of the upper middle class sneering at the lower middle class for not being as educated, sophisticated and clever as we are? This time through the lens of dinner?
Re:The Wretched Table: How Dinner in America Became an Ordeal
by WalterSear on Monday October 05, 2015 @10:34AM
(#10332049)
It doesn't matter if your terrible diet came from Wholefoods or Walmart, whether it's organic or conventionally grown.
There's a vast amount of lip service paid to to almost anything in the personal milieu that that involves the slightest forebearance, forethought or effort.
Re:The Wretched Table: How Dinner in America Became an Ordeal
by detaro on Sunday October 04, 2015 @09:30PM
(#10329549)
Where do you get that from? I don't really see that in the article. (And I bet many "upper middle class" families aren't exactly great about proper dinner together as well.)
Re:The Wretched Table: How Dinner in America Became an Ordeal
by archimedespi on Sunday October 04, 2015 @09:47PM
(#10329586)
Not really. I'm actually talking about upper middle class families in my comment, and it's more about how good food/eating education isn't available to lots of children because their parents have no idea about it, regardless of class.
Re:The Wretched Table: How Dinner in America Became an Ordeal
by eimai134 on Monday October 05, 2015 @09:26PM
(#10336232)
There is a big problem in America with people not knowing how to cook anymore, especially from scratch. I wasn't taught very well as a child and had to learn myself in my 20s. Now I spend a small amount of time cooking and trying out recipes, and have gathered a huge notebook of things my family loves. We do lots of soups which take very little time to make and can last for several days.
Plan food for the whole week. Buy the ingredients in one trip. Clean as you cook.
Take one day a week to pre cook and freeze as much as possible. Cook three or four nights a week and eat leftovers for the remainder.
Build a repertoire of around ten meals you train yourself to bang out quickly and without thinking.
If you're cooking for your kids, make them help with the cooking and the clean up. (This is how I learned to cook.)
It's not rocket science.
It's an obvious source of fluster and stress for my friends who don't. They never seem to figure it out either. Even when I do it for them.
Plus. Stop determining what you want to eat first. Look at what you have in your fridge and learn to work with it. Have a few proteins and a few cheeses and kitchen basics and you can improvise many things.
These are all huge stumbling blocks- especially when it's so easy to just order take-out, which will at least be consistently edible, with the added bonus of not resulting in wasted ingredients.
What ultimately turned it around for me was when my girlfriend and I decided to fully commit to cooking at home, and went and spent $150 on groceries- but instead of buying ingredients, we bought pantry essentials. Flour, sugar, baling powder, baking soda, cornmeal, table and kosher salt, seasonings, potatoes, rice, pasta, and so on. Not to mention an initial stock of perishable basics: onions, garlic, lemons, limes, milk, butter, eggs, and cheese.
While it left a dent in our wallet at the time, it turned out to be a game-changer. We found that it was immensely easier to plan meals, because we already had half the ingredients of any given recipe.
This is a huge societal problem, in my opinion. I'm a pretty privileged dude when it comes down to it, and I was able to absorb the inefficiency of not being able to cook at home while still eating pretty healthy food. Furthermore, I was able to get over the hump of figuring out how to cook on my own, because I had the resources to absorb the inefficiency of learning how to do it.
What about the folks that can't?
And you buy cheap. A jar of spice from McCormick might cost five bucks, but you can get the same amount in a plastic bag at the bodega for a dollar. And really, you don't need two kinds of salt.
If you're one of the fortunate poor, your immigrant parents/grandparents have already taught you how to cook.
It's really quite a foreign idea to me that cooking for yourself is expensive, even though I hear that all the time from people my age and younger. Maybe they all think you need to cook elaborate meals. But when you look at the way immigrants cook, it's really just a small set of cheap ingredients combined a bunch of different ways.
It may be cheap in terms of ingredients but in traditional immigrant households the mother and often grandmother don't have jobs and stay at home all day cooking. They use cheap ingredients but it's a TON of work.
When my wife's mom (who's not from the US) comes to visit, she starts cooking early in the morning and doesn't finish until dinner. It probably takes longer than it would if she had her flow setup since she has to prepare basics that we don't have ready, but still a lot of traditional dishes take a lot of time.
Things are often slow cooked for example because cheap cuts of meat are used and you need to do that to make them edible. Most office workers won't have time to do that.
Buy a slow cooker (aka crock pot) and leave it running while you're at work.
> They use cheap ingredients but it's a TON of work.
Do this type of cooking for your meal bases in a single day.
In my house, mom worked 40 hours but would get a giant pot of red sauce and a giant pot of pasta e fagioli going on Saturday morning - maybe 30-60 minutes of prep, then all day to cook - unattended except for the occasional stir. This would yield enough soup and sauce for a week of dinners for a family of four - just add pasta.
Friends from other backgrounds describe similar techniques with things like refried beans, etc.
I learnt how to cook properly at university (UK). I'd watched my mum a fair amount growing up, and in the final few weeks before I left she showed me things like how to shallow fry chicken, or check it was cooked.
I ate takeaway on the day I arrived, since everyone was too drunk, but on Sunday I paired up with people living on the same floor and cooked with them for the rest of the year.
It cost a fraction of what takeaway food would have cost, and we weren't trying to be super cheap.
No. The vast majority of college students I know don't cook. They either eat in dining halls or get take-out.
Some learn while in college, but lots just buy a meal plan from the school or get takeout a lot (and/or "instant meals") and learn nothing about cooking.
> I'd watched my mum a fair amount growing up, and in the final few weeks before I left she showed me things like how to shallow fry chicken, or check it was cooked.
It seems to me lots of Americans don't get even this level of basics (and, with it, the confidence to actually be willing to try things in the kitchen) growing up, and that that's the problem.
I emigrated six weeks ago, so I have to restart my "pantry essentials". I didn't buy everything in the first week, I will buy things gradually. I bought things like canned tomatoes, mixed herbs, pepper, salt; plus things that are used a lot quicker (rice, butter, noodles, onions, garlic). Last week I fancied Thai food, so I bought some fish sauce, lemongrass etc. It will take a year before I have all the spices and sauces I left behind.
Yes, this.
Always have the essentials stocked for your repertoire.
I grew up Italian-American, so we always had: onions, garlic, lemon, parsley, green peppers, sausage, tomato paste, anchovies, pasta, a few types of beans, grated cheese, olive oil, balsamic, etc.
Add some random meats or fresh vegetables, and you've got like, a hundred different recipes right there.
> Seriously. CLEAN AS YOU COOK. It drives me insane that people don't get this.
So many, many people don't understand this. My mom DRILLED this into my head as a kid. When I'm cooking with a friend who doesn't clean as they cook, I usually just hand them a glass of wine and kick them out of the kitchen.
plus it wipes-out one of our only two days off together.
Unless you have huge freezer space that can accommodate multi-week batches there's no real way around that.
Then again, I'd say 40% of our grocery budget is vegetables, if not more. Perhaps we're not the average case.
I also really like frozen vegetables - green beans, broccoli and cauliflower florets, etc. I don't understand the stigma against them, particularly if they're organic.
Meat goes bad much more quickly. If I'm not eating meat within two--maaaybe three--days of purchasing it, I will freeze it.
Since I live alone, I tend to buy vegetables once a week, and meat on my way home if I'm sure I'll use it — I'm prone to wasting it otherwise. I go past at least four small supermarkets on my way home from work (30 minutes by bicycle). I have some frozen fish too, since it's quick to defrost, and bacon, since it keeps for ages. I have no problem making a vegetarian meal (chickpeas, tofu etc -- these keep indefinitely).
Also, something like this can really help: http://www.buzzfeed.com/christinebyrne/clean-eating-2015
This is the bit you're doing backwards. Type the ingredients you've got into Google, along with "recipe" and see what you fancy eating.
Now having said that, I do sympathize with posters who think cooking is time-consuming and hard. At the age of about 25 I specifically set about learning to cook, and it took me probably 5 years before I got good at it, and another 5 years before I was able to conjure a meal from bits and pieces of unpromising leftover ingredients.
When all was said and done, I felt that the best value proposition would be to just go on the Blue Apron website, look at the recipes, buy dry good ingredients in bulk, and make the recipes myself as time went on, buying the fresh ingredients as needed. As always, YMMV.
Edit: as many others have also pointed out, the packaging is "neat", and probably necessary for their workflow, but it feels ever so wasteful. You could supply a kindergarten arts and craft class with leftover materials from each shipment.
Where can you get a "gourmet healthy" email when eating out for $10? That would barely cover a Shake Burger + fries.
Perhaps it seemed that I suggested you could get a healthy meal + restaurant experience for under $10, but I was more thinking take-out options. Whole Foods' hot and cold (salad) buffet bar is like $9 per pound if I remember correctly. [1] Fairway, a competitor to Whole Foods in NYC, has a deli counter or buffet bar where you can get close to 1lb of veggies + grains + meat for under $10. [2] The only way Blue Apron makes sense over Fairway and Whole Foods, to me, is if you are either looking for the experience of cooking, or if you are a variety fiend and are going to tire of the flavors that the supermarkets use.
[1] https://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/department/article/daily-me...
[2] https://www.fairwaymarket.com/content/uploads/06_05_15_REDHO... Scroll to the bottom: those build your own meal options are listed as sale prices, but they are representative for regular non-sale options too.
Bonus how-to maximize value at the salad bar: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/08/03/whole-foods-salad-b...
Wait, the Whole Foods salad with meat is more expensive. And the Fairway meals are as expensive or more for what looks like slop.
Also, how do you figure that the Whole Foods "salad with meat" is more expensive? You're getting a pound of prepared food for $9: hot, cold, meat, vegetarian, salad, whatever you want. The Blue Apron portions do not contain a pound of food.
https://www.google.com/search?site=&tbm=isch&q=whole+foods+b...
https://www.google.com/search?site=&tbm=isch&q=fairway+deli
You seem pretty closed minded with respect to your meal planning. [1] Best of luck. Getting things delivered to you in 15 tiny little plastic baggies, with limited protein choices, seems pretty boring and ineffective to me, but, different strokes for different folks.
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10330283
I am quite open minded about my meal planning. I do Blue Apron, Din, Soylent, Caviar/fastbite, local delivery, Sprig, Munchery, Trader Joes pre-made and scratch, Whole Foods buffet, mall food court (we have a great one in SF), etc. My sense is that you don't really know what you're talking about.
"people fall into a few habitual meals"
"choose the meals based on what you have"
Goes without saying that you're pretty much dead wrong.
Finding a recipe: skip this. It's a waste of time. I haven't followed a recipe for anything that wasn't a cake in the last 15 years.
Getting the ingredients: you have the causality reversed. You choose the meals based on what you have, not what you will have based on what meals you want.
Figure out the recipe: see point #2, but also, recipes are extremely standardized. It's your failure to have learned the language that is the problem.
I'll be the first to admit that it's cooking with training wheels, but I'm a busy professional with a young child. Anything that can save me time and stress is well worth it.
Well ill have to be honest, i just eat the same thing over and over again. Chicken, Quinoa (or rice if you want) Broccoli, potatoes, lentils.
My digestive system loves it.
Lots of family time planting, weeding, picking and processing all those damned vegetables, though...
Dinner in my household is not difficult or fussy or unhealthy or expensive or bland.
We don't buy food every day, but we also don't buy processed food. We eat fresh meat and vegetables, with small servings of simple carbohydrates, going to the grocery store once a week. Our trips come out to about $100 total, which is about $2/meal per person.
I make dinner from scratch almost every night. I design it to leave leftovers for lunch the next day. It takes no more time to make four servings than two for most things. This means that the time I spend on dinner saves time on lunch.
Once a week, I make a meal designed to leave a LOT of leftovers, like a roast chicken or tacos or chili. Roast chicken takes a long time to cook, but takes almost no prep-time. Tacos take a little prep time, but almost no time to cook. Chili takes a lot of prep time, a lot of cooking time (if you want to do it right), but makes so damn much that we freeze half so we don't burn out on eating it for the entirety of the week.
And don't get me wrong: we don't eat the same thing every night. I'm somewhat of a fussy eater. I don't mean there are only a few things that I will eat, I mean I am very intolerant of poorly prepared food. We eat extremely well in my house.
Oh yeah, there are nights where I say to myself, "damn, I'm just too tired to make anything special". That's when we eat the leftover, frozen chili. Or I dice up the leftover chicken from the roast and make a chicken salad out of it and we have sandwiches. Or we have tacos a second night, because we freakin' love tacos (I could eat tacos for every meal, and I know this because I have done it before).
Eating well doesn't mean complexity, it doesn't mean expense. Simple food, the right symphony of spices, and the correct cooking method. It's no different than programming.
Hell, some things like knives and cutting boards, I clean while I'm cooking. While I'm waiting for something to finish roasting or frying, I'm already cleaning my work area. Usually, the only dishes that are left over are plates, forks, and glasses.
And it's part of the day. Brushing your teeth takes time. Taking a shower takes time. Getting dressed takes time. You have to decide that you are a person who takes time to cook, not spend 15 more minutes on Twitter.
I'm not some rural hippy who has no real job, living off of the land, disconnected from the pace of life. We live the DC metro area. And by that, I don't mean we live in a mansion in Herndon or Reston, I mean we live in an a small apartment in Alexandria. I'm the CTO of a technology consulting firm. We have only one car between my wife and me, which she drives, and I take public transit everywhere.
If you don't feel like doing the dishes every day, you can just stack them up and do them once a week...
We probably had a bit more "bland" — I couldn't help being British — but we'd also go shopping once a week, cook most evenings, and vary between short/long prep/cooking time things. We'd sometimes use semi-prepared foods, (British-)Indian curry pastes were used relatively often, but something like a "make tacos kit" was expensive for what it contained, and only used once or twice before we'd work out how to make it ourselves.
Also, being four 18 year olds, we were never able to make leftovers last until the next day :-D
(None of this was unusual in Britain; /not/ doing this was unusual.)
If my dad woke up in 1975 where he lived in Brooklyn and decided that he wanted a Greek yogurt fresh blueberry and organic granola parfait... Well too fucking bad. Best case, you had a tub of Dannon plain yogurt and a bag of frozen berries.
Now everything is available all of the time, and that hyper-specialization of everything has eliminated cheap stuff that everyone bought to get by. Something like flank steak used to be sold for pennies on the dollar, now I see it prices the same as a strip steak!
It's not. If you don't know how to cook, buy a cookbook, one that has the fundamentals in it, one that teaches you about meat and bread and vegetables and starch and sauces and fish and condiments. And once you've learned the basics of "frying meat" or "cooking pasta", you can easily start to combine what you've learned into meals, and you can more easily follow recipes for variations or ideas on how to spice it or prepare it or present it.
But, I do believe as you allude to in your last sentence that nothing takes the place of practice. I think a lot of people get overwhelmed looking at a list of ingredients. With experience you know what ones are critical to the dish and what can be left out or substituted as you have learned tastes and can intuitively understand measurements.
And to circle back to the article, I think a lot of young people in America simply don't even get to try cooking for themselves the way society is organized.
When I started university and moved out of my parent's home, I didn't move into a dorm with a cafeteria, instead I moved into a small student apartment. If I wanted dinner each night, it was completely up to me. Frozen pan pizza gets kinda boring, so I had to start cooking for myself.
Then, when you want to have a meal, fill your kitchen sink full of hot water, maybe half-full, and throw one of those ziplock bags in. In 15 to 30 minutes, the meat will be completely thawed and you can cook whatever you want.
Given the right recipe, you might even be able to work the thaw time into the vegetable prep time.
EDIT: There are three other options for defrosting meat: in fridge, on the counter, and in the microwave, in order of speed from slowest to fastest. In the fridge takes extreme pre-knowledge: you practically have to do it the night before, and I am too fussy of an eater to know what I will want to eat a day ahead of time. On the counter is same-day, but has to be done in the morning, plus some people might be squeamish about leaving meat out at room temperature for several hours. Using the microwave takes 15 to 30 minutes, but is imperfect and often ends up cooking the meat to a certain degree. In short, the waterbath method is the most convenient defrosting method.
Meat should only be thawed in a fridge or, in an eemergency, in a bath of cold water.
Plunging it into hot water is heaven for bacterial growth.
Hot water isn't really that bad for bacterial growth. Lukewarm water is the enemy but even that's fine as long as you cook the meat within half an hour of taking it out of the fridge for defrosting. If you're taking longer z than half an hour that's a substantial cut off meat and you really should be able to plan a day ahead.
> Plunging it into hot water is heaven for bacterial growth.
Only true for large roasts; for steaks and similar portions, hot water thawing is safe and convenient:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/08/dining/a-hot-water-bath-fo...
Whether you cook from scratch, make some kind of prepared food or leftovers, have take-out/delivery, or go out to eat seems irrelevant by comparison.
My sister is a good example of this. She picked up a crazy, pain in the ass fad diet, has two kids and high powered corporate gig. Her husband is in a similar gig. The kids are in care from 7-7. So yeah, even buying a vegan, glueten free burrito is a pain in the ass. I worry about her, as she's going to have an anxiety attack someday.
That, I think, is the key. It's not reasonable to expect a big production dinner when both parents have full time jobs, particularly professionals who have to work late on occasion. That takes a level of organization most people just don't have.
Everyone knows you start the gravy (aka sauce) in a big pot on Saturday morning, make the kids stir it all day long, then heat it up for quick dinners throughout the week.
It's hard to read this and come away from it feeling that the problem is anything more than willfully ignorant parents (healthy eating information isn't hard to come by), indolently wallowing in their lack of self-awareness and inconsistencies.
In other words, normal people.
I get how some people derive great pleasure from making a meal from scratch, but for people in a great hurry, it's one of many checkboxes. And time spent stirring a pot or slicing vegetables is hardly quality family time.
Invite your kids into the kitchen. Teach them how to cook. Cooking can be some of the best quality family time if you make it a priority.
As an example, I take my kids camping a few times a year. I show them all kinds of things, like how to stake a tent, how to make a fire safely, etc.
If we had to do these things every single day just to cook and go to sleep, I suspect it would quickly devolve into running through the chores as quickly as possible while they stand to the side and poke at ant mounds with sticks.
We do make healthy quality meals and involve the kids with what we're doing, but this is certainly not an every night thing. Often, it's much easier to simply find a way to solve the problem and move on.
Teaching one's offspring what is and is not good to eat is perhaps the oldest and most fundamental task associated with raising young. It predates humanity by millions of years. If that is not "quality family time", I can't fathom what is.
> In other words, normal people.
As much as this looks like a rude thing to say, (and it kind of is), it's really quite true and I've experienced similar things with various parents I've seen (thankfully not mine).
There's a vast amount of lip service paid to to almost anything in the personal milieu that that involves the slightest forebearance, forethought or effort.