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Re:Organizing complexity is the most important skill in soft... by w1ntermute on Monday June 22, 2015 @11:16AM (#9758882)
How'd you do it if the keyboard wasn't working?
Re:Organizing complexity is the most important skill in soft... by knodi123 on Monday June 22, 2015 @11:31AM (#9758989)
Our main product was developed on a keyboard that was missing a "w". It's not a big deal, though - you can use a for(;;) loop instead of a while loop without hurting performance. And it's easy to just avoid "w" words in the view templates by being clever with word choice.

Of course, that's not true at all. But giving someone a defective-but-not-entirely-broken tool can be a clever way of seeing how they work around problems or how they deal with frustration. Joking aside, we once let a guy go during his 1 week probationary period because he got a little too angry at a slow server. It's a valuable test.

Re:Organizing complexity is the most important skill in soft... by CydeWeys on Monday June 22, 2015 @01:13PM (#9759705)
It's too contrived though; not having a single working keyboard anywhere isn't a real business situation. A slow bottlenecked server, sure.

If the "w" key weren't working I'd copy-paste "w" characters from elsewhere in the document, or bring up the on-screen keyboard. Writing bastardized code -- for (;;), really?! -- would be a huge negative against a candidate. And, of course, if a company really didn't have a working keyboard to provide me with, I'd never work there in the first place, because if they can't even provide working peripherals there's no limit to what else they might skimp on.

I actually have three keyboards at my desk right now -- one with Cherry MX blues, one with Cherry MX browns, and a Model M. No way in hell would I ever write code without "w"s.

Re:Organizing complexity is the most important skill in soft... by grecy on Monday June 22, 2015 @02:08PM (#9760125)
Whenever you need a character your keyboard won't produce - either because it's broken or because it's in a different language and you can't figure out how to get it, just google the character and copy/paste it. i.e. Google "double u"
Re:Organizing complexity is the most important skill in soft... by Terr_ on Monday June 22, 2015 @06:25PM (#9761599)
Or just use the mouse to open your whatever "Character Map" program comes with your OS... which works when you're missing the same letters you'd need to "sound them out", or even with no keyboard at all. (Assuming you managed to log in.)
Re:Organizing complexity is the most important skill in soft... by grecy on Tuesday June 23, 2015 @05:37PM (#9768001)
Try doing that when you sit down at a machine that has the language set to something you can't read :)
Re:Organizing complexity is the most important skill in soft... by scintill76 on Monday June 22, 2015 @08:17PM (#9761977)
I actually like "for (;;) {}" as an idiom for an infinite loop (or at least, the terminating conditions are in the body rather than the loop construct itself.) It maybe stands out more than "while(true)", so readers can easily see what's going on. But maybe that's just a justification, and the real reason is that it looks clever because not everybody knows you can do that with a C-style for loop.
Re:Organizing complexity is the most important skill in soft... by christianmann on Monday June 22, 2015 @11:00PM (#9762375)

    #define ever (;;)
Re:Organizing complexity is the most important skill in soft... by malkia on Monday June 22, 2015 @04:18PM (#9760907)
Not at a company, but in Bulgaria every year there is a National Programming Olympiad - basically high-schoolers (but some time even mid-schoolers) would compete by solving 2 or 3 exercises in small amount of time. Their code would be ran, against tests, and it should finish in time, and with correct answers. Possibly code review might be done as well. Most used languages were Pascal, C, C++, Basic.

But then computers were not provided, each school had to travel with a computer for each student. So around 1993/94 a friend of mine, who also had some terrible medial situation at the time, and was quite weak decided to compete, and to make things worse for him - his spacebar wasn't working. I think he did a lot of presses of Alt+32 (or was it Alt+20 - I haven't used this combination of entering ASCII codes in a long time). He finish pretty good for the situation and keyboard problem he had, and next year when he was healthy and with good keyboard he did just awesome!

Re:Organizing complexity is the most important skill in soft... by throwaway12357 on Monday June 22, 2015 @12:54PM (#9759601)
I'm sorry but I can't help to find this situation ridiculous.

Unless you're from a very poor country there is no excuse for not having a working keyboard.

I don't know if that was part of the test, but if it was, it's worse than the big blue chip corps asking about the number of piano tuners. Which actually can be valuable at understanding how one reasons about unknown problems/areas.

About the server being slow, well I don't know the magnitude of the slowness or the anger, but unless you're a ramen fueled startup there is no excuse for having slow machines. It's management failure. It's a waste of developer time. Instead of coding the dev is having to deal with stress inducing constant 5 second hiccups or similar things.

Put yourself in the interviewee's shoes. Do you really want to work in a company that can't conduct a proper interview and has broken/slow hardware?

And yes, I do use vim and I do like w very much.

Re:Organizing complexity is the most important skill in soft... by knodi123 on Monday June 22, 2015 @04:07PM (#9760846)
> Do you really want to work in a company that can't conduct a proper interview and has broken/slow hardware?

Slow is relative. The employee in question was trying to figure out why a remote server was experiencing extreme slowdown. He ssh-ed in, but he was able to type far faster than the beleaguered remote could echo his keystrokes. So he needed to just carefully type his commands, wait for them to appear, and then press enter. Instead, he typed angrily and too quickly, swore at the connection, and eventually started slamming his keyboard in a fit of pique.

It was a totally reasonable real-world slow machine problem, and a totally useful insight into the mindset of a potential new employee.

Not egregious at all. We're developers, sometimes we have to walk into an annoying situation and deal with it like adults.

Re:Organizing complexity is the most important skill in soft... by JoeAltmaier on Monday June 22, 2015 @04:08PM (#9760856)
Yeah but poor guy - in an interview situation the pressure is different and public. He might have done fine at his own desk.
Re:Organizing complexity is the most important skill in soft... by garmega on Monday June 22, 2015 @05:15PM (#9761253)
It wasn't during the interview. According to knodi123's first comment it was during the guy's first week on the job.

>Joking aside, we once let a guy go during his 1 week probationary period because he got a little too angry at a slow server.

Re:Organizing complexity is the most important skill in soft... by Ma8ee on Monday June 22, 2015 @04:35PM (#9761004)
I have been forced to work with really old computers connected to as old research hardware. At some point it is probably more economical to let someone figure out the interface and solder something together with an Arduino or similar so we can start using a new computer. But that point is never now. Until then we have this old chain of hardware just to get the data from the old machine via 5 1/4 floppy disks.
Re:Organizing complexity is the most important skill in soft... by ssharp on Monday June 22, 2015 @11:51AM (#9759153)
Maybe it's why I'm not a developer anymore, but my approach to a broken "w" key wouldn't be figuring out a workaround to using "while", but rather copying and pasting a "w" from somewhere else.
Re:Organizing complexity is the most important skill in soft... by tremendo on Monday June 22, 2015 @12:16PM (#9759322)
ascii 119, son on Win Alt-119. But seriously, stand up and ask for a working keyboard first. The test there is communication.
Re:Organizing complexity is the most important skill in soft... by __z on Monday June 22, 2015 @12:42PM (#9759505)
Exactly.

If someone's approach to a broken keyboard is some workaround instead of just asking for another keyboard it is a sign they handle problems very, very poorly.

Re:Organizing complexity is the most important skill in soft... by blablabla123 on Monday June 22, 2015 @04:24PM (#9760949)
It's an insurance company, maybe they want to assure that they still work even if there is something exploding. ;)
Re:Organizing complexity is the most important skill in soft... by new_hackers on Monday June 22, 2015 @11:14PM (#9762413)
^^^this is the correct answer. as a manager I want to know if my team is experiencing an obstacle that should be simple for me to fix for them. A managers job is to remove these kind of obstacles. I don't want them wasting time with poor workarounds.
Re:Organizing complexity is the most important skill in soft... by knodi123 on Monday June 22, 2015 @04:08PM (#9760852)
'twas meant to be a joke. but you're right, there are much better solutions, starting with "go to the closest store and buy a new keyboard".
Re:Organizing complexity is the most important skill in soft... by TeMPOraL on Monday June 22, 2015 @12:12PM (#9759297)
My would be to (in order): jury-rig the keyboard to make it type "w" anyway, rebind it to some unused key, or just bring my own keyboard from home (if this would not be an interview but probational period setting).
Re:Organizing complexity is the most important skill in soft... by __z on Monday June 22, 2015 @12:38PM (#9759484)
Windows (and most OSes) also have an on screen keyboard.
Re:Organizing complexity is the most important skill in soft... by TeMPOraL on Monday June 22, 2015 @12:42PM (#9759507)
It does, but having to click to type that one letter would be annoying as hell, and a last-ditch resort (after copy-pasting the letter itself from some text that contains it).
Re:Organizing complexity is the most important skill in soft... by 0xdeadbeefbabe on Monday June 22, 2015 @11:45AM (#9759111)
The W button? That's interesting. It wasn't related to the Clinton transition out of the White House[0] was it?

[0] http://www.truthorfiction.com/trashingthewhitehouse/

Re:Organizing complexity is the most important skill in soft... by raverbashing on Monday June 22, 2015 @12:06PM (#9759259)
Just find a text where there's a w, copy and paste it.

(And then make a preprocessor run where \/\/ is replaced with a w)

Re:Organizing complexity is the most important skill in soft... by logfromblammo on Monday June 22, 2015 @04:19PM (#9760913)
If the 'w' key is the only worn out key on a keyboard, I would suspect that it had seen heavy use attached to a gaming PC, as the "forward" key in the default WASD movement layout.

I have a keyboard with a broken 'w' key myself, and I know exactly why that key cap died young. It sure wasn't from typing out "while".

Re:Organizing complexity is the most important skill in soft... by damon_c on Tuesday June 23, 2015 @08:11AM (#9764091)
You might benefit from more strafing.
Re:Organizing complexity is the most important skill in soft... by yellowapple on Monday June 22, 2015 @08:57PM (#9762113)
Somewhat off-topic, but I'm suddenly reminded of a joke proposal for Fortran to drop the letter 'O' entirely from its character set (in response to frustration regarding its confusion with '0'), the justification being that 'GOTO' statements would suddenly be impossible and therefore incapable of doing harm.
Re:Organizing complexity is the most important skill in soft... by s73v3r on Monday June 22, 2015 @05:09PM (#9761220)
I dunno. If you're not going to care enough about your employees to give them the best possible tools, why do I want to work there again?
Re:Organizing complexity is the most important skill in soft... by Qwertious on Monday June 22, 2015 @12:07PM (#9759267)
It wasn't working "properly". For all we know, that just means the insert and home keys were switched around somehow. Or maybe caps lock was broken.
Re:Organizing complexity is the most important skill in soft... by vijayr on Monday June 22, 2015 @01:46PM (#9759942)
They changed the keyboard twice :p