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Re:Cuba's “Internet” is a thumb drive that moves by bus by drivingmenuts on Monday June 15, 2015 @11:05AM (#9719767)
> What should the US do about Cuban connectivity?

Um, nothing? I don't mean this from a sense of "who cares?" but more from a sense of "let Cubans figure out what works for them". If they ask for help, provide it. But don't go interfering unnecessarily where interference is not particularly asked for.

I suspect that the world would be a much different place if we'd followed that dictum in the first place.

Re:Cuba's “Internet” is a thumb drive that moves by bus by onion2k on Monday June 15, 2015 @11:30AM (#9719947)
If they ask for help, provide it. But don't go interfering unnecessarily where interference is not particularly asked for.

Except the US still has a number of trade embargoes in place with Cuba, so while they could ask for help it's possible the people they ask would be legally bound to say no. Lifting decades old sanctions that hurt both Cuba and the US (in hundreds of millions of dollars in lost export trade) would be something the US could, and should, do.

A trade embargo with a country on grounds of it being ideologically different falls under "interfering unnecessarily" in my opinion.

Re:Cuba's “Internet” is a thumb drive that moves by bus by metasean on Monday June 15, 2015 @11:37AM (#9720000)
Steps are actively being made in to lift the trade embargoes - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_embargo_against_...
Re:Cuba's “Internet” is a thumb drive that moves by bus by wildmusings on Monday June 15, 2015 @11:45AM (#9720075)
They seized tons of American property without compensation. They've also fueled communist revolutions with money, supplies, and troops.
Re:Cuba's “Internet” is a thumb drive that moves by bus by linschn on Tuesday June 16, 2015 @03:51AM (#9724304)
They offered a compensation in the forms of treasure bonds, payable in 20 years.

The Revolution was not marxist until 1961, two years after Castro came into power, and after the USA began being openly hostile to it.

People there were literally dying of hunger, the redistribution of land succeeded in feeding them.

But of course seizing the land owned by a corporation is a violation of Human Rights, whereas underpaying workers to the point they die of starvation is just business. /s

Re:Cuba's “Internet” is a thumb drive that moves by bus by humanrebar on Monday June 15, 2015 @11:39AM (#9720031)
> A trade embargo with a country on grounds of it being ideologically different falls under "interfering unnecessarily" in my opinion.

That sort of hand waving does a disservice to history. Initially the embargo was enacted because Cuba nationalized industries without providing fair compensation (a).

It's true that the embargoes have been more ideological since then, but the ideology is that fairly basic human rights (life, liberty, free speech) should be respected (b).

All that being said, the Castros are pretty entrenched. Maybe healthier interaction with Cuba would promote human rights faster. But you don't have to make straw man assertions to make that point.

a) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_embargo_against_...

b) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Cuba#Political...

Re:Cuba's “Internet” is a thumb drive that moves by bus by vidarh on Monday June 15, 2015 @11:47AM (#9720091)
The nationalisations that caused the first trade embargo followed hostile moves from the Eisenhower administration by e.g. reducing trade quotas and through the refusal of an American owned refinery to sell to the Cuban government. The rest of the nationalisation followed as a retaliation against the that trade embargo.

Basically Eisenhower shot himself in the foot by first rebuffing early advances by Castro that sent Castro head first into the arms of the Soviets, and then it just got worse from that.

It had nothing to do with ideology on either side, but with money and power.

Re:Cuba's “Internet” is a thumb drive that moves by bus by ArkyBeagle on Monday June 15, 2015 @01:07PM (#9720617)
America was shocked by the nationalizations in Mexico in the decades before, so it's unsurprising that this was considered bad form. Embargo was always the escalation of choice then.

I believe Castro was also pretty Marxist well before 1959. That would have constrained what any politician in the US could have done.

Re:Cuba's “Internet” is a thumb drive that moves by bus by AngrySkillzz on Monday June 15, 2015 @12:00PM (#9720179)
Your second point is pretty hollow, as there are MANY nations that we trade with that violate the basic human rights of their own citizens or those in neighboring countries/territories.
Re:Cuba's “Internet” is a thumb drive that moves by bus by humanrebar on Monday June 15, 2015 @12:12PM (#9720267)
My point is that there are points more tangible than ideological differences. I honestly don't have a dog in this fight, but I think there are fair points on the other side of things that are being glossed over instead of addressed.
Re:Cuba's “Internet” is a thumb drive that moves by bus by vidarh on Monday June 15, 2015 @11:39AM (#9720032)
> I suspect that the world would be a much different place if we'd followed that dictum in the first place.

Especially the "if they ask for help". Castro toured the US and asked for help after the revolution. The US administration slammed the door in his face. So he went to the Soviets, who welcomed him with open arms.

Re:Cuba's “Internet” is a thumb drive that moves by bus by pjc50 on Monday June 15, 2015 @11:39AM (#9720021)
Given that the US has handicapped Cuban economic development for half a century with an aggressive embargo, it's a bit late for noninterference.
Re:Cuba's “Internet” is a thumb drive that moves by bus by hcentelles on Monday June 15, 2015 @12:21PM (#9720338)
It seems like google is in Cuba right now, talking about this: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/06/google-testing-the-wat...
Re:Cuba's “Internet” is a thumb drive that moves by bus by hurin on Monday June 15, 2015 @11:37AM (#9720008)
Yeah except the US basically ruined Cuba's economy with sanctions for what 50+ years? And another ~25 after there was no more soviet threat - just to stick it to the damn unrepentant commies. Because forcing the rest (majority) of the populace to experience economic hardship for dozens of years is really an admirable foreign policy.
Re:Cuba's “Internet” is a thumb drive that moves by bus by wildmusings on Monday June 15, 2015 @11:44AM (#9720067)
The US didn't ruin Cuba's economy. Cuba did it to itself with the nationalization of all industry, prohibition of any private enterprise, limited access to information, and restricted freedom of movement, among other things. The Castros don't care about the well-being of the Cuban people, only their own hold on power. In the 90s, after the collapse of the USSR and its subsidies brought the Cuban economy to its knees, the Castros temporarily liberalized parts of the economy. As soon as the situation improved enough to prevent a revolt, they renewed the crackdown on private enterprise with a vengeance.
Re:Cuba's “Internet” is a thumb drive that moves by bus by dragonwriter on Monday June 15, 2015 @12:46PM (#9720496)
In the most generous remotely tenable reading of the facts for the US policy, it protected the Cuban policies you point to by providing an easy, convenient, and credible PR scapegoat for the deleterious effects of the Cuban policies, thereby reducing pressure on the regime to alter them.
Re:Cuba's “Internet” is a thumb drive that moves by bus by hurin on Monday June 15, 2015 @12:34PM (#9720416)
> The US didn't ruin Cuba's economy. Cuba did it to itself

This is almost entirely fiction, although I'm sure this is the common political narrative. Cuba is a small island in the middle of the Caribbean cut-off from it's biggest and most developed trading partner, which would have been what 70-90%+ of the economy?

But yes of - course the arch-villain fidel castro and those damn commies.

Re:Cuba's “Internet” is a thumb drive that moves by bus by JoeAltmaier on Monday June 15, 2015 @12:36PM (#9720429)
Suppressing the middle class, nationalizing industries, disaffecting business people all contribute to tanking their economy. Didn't the cutting-off happen AFTER all that?
Re:Cuba's “Internet” is a thumb drive that moves by bus by hurin on Monday June 15, 2015 @12:42PM (#9720471)
> Suppressing the middle class,

This is the modern narrative for revolutions in Latin/South America? "Middle Class", really? Because well fed people providing for their families decided to take up arms? Or because the well-fed were a tiny minority, and the rest lived in poverty under the economic oppression of former colonialists?

Re:Cuba's “Internet” is a thumb drive that moves by bus by JoeAltmaier on Monday June 15, 2015 @12:56PM (#9720556)
Don't know what that's all about; sorry to press your hot button. But a stable society needs a middle class. You take businesses away, drive people to leave their homeland, its gonna be disruptive.
Re:Cuba's “Internet” is a thumb drive that moves by bus by wildmusings on Monday June 15, 2015 @03:08PM (#9721332)
Castro solved that problem. Poverty for everyone.
Re:Cuba's “Internet” is a thumb drive that moves by bus by drzaiusapelord on Monday June 15, 2015 @03:35PM (#9721485)
Communism doesn't work. I don't understand why so many people here with anti-US bones to pick won't or can't understand that The idea Castro's Cuba would have been wonderfully prosperous while Pol Pot, Stalin, the Jong-un dynasty, etc all have failed is ridiculous. Cuba did model itself after these regimes politically, with requisite horrible human rights abuses to keep the population from asserting their natural rights as free citizens who should be able to petition their government, hold property, start businesses, etc.

China is only doing well because it liberalized so much so quickly and more or less run a capitalist market economy.

Re:Cuba's “Internet” is a thumb drive that moves by bus by ArkyBeagle on Monday June 15, 2015 @01:00PM (#9720573)
Given conditions, what else could have realistically be done? Post Bay of Pigs, things were gonna be hostile ( and Fidel Castro fed politically on the dischord ). Cuba sort of wanted to be offline. The Revolution timed with Eisenhower's departure, so Kennedy set the tone.

Bay of Pigs was a busted op; there is long term blowback from those.

Might be worth gaining a little perspective on the Caribbean in general - James Michener's "Caribbean" is quite good , an easy and entertaining read and sketches out the basic historical framework. We don't think of the historical significance of any of the climes which were once Spanish holdings enough in English speaking cultures, IMO.

Of particular interest is the effect of the uprising in Haiti, which we still feel today.

Also, I am somewhat surprised Canada didn't jump on trade with Cuba - ten years ago, vacations there were advertised in Montreal. The Canadian embassy in Cuba never closed nor did the Cuban embassy in Canada.

Re:Cuba's “Internet” is a thumb drive that moves by bus by hurin on Monday June 15, 2015 @01:06PM (#9720612)
Yes, but the last 25 years, for what? Unlike North Korea or China (our major economic partner) Cuba has neither a greater record of human rights abuses nor Nuclear weapons.

Edit: I'm not arguing Castro is not bad, but as far as dictators goes he is probably a lesser evil; as it stands US Foreign policy has done nothing to displace Castro* but a great deal to oppress the Cuban populace.

*(although we did displace a number of democratically elected governments in other Latin American nations) -

Re:Cuba's “Internet” is a thumb drive that moves by bus by ArkyBeagle on Monday June 15, 2015 @01:10PM (#9720638)
I won't disagree, but Castro used animus against the Yanqui for political gain for forever. Over the last 25 years, it may be that the Florida based Cuban expat political bloc alone was enough to set that in stone.
Re:Cuba's “Internet” is a thumb drive that moves by bus by sehugg on Monday June 15, 2015 @04:02PM (#9721676)
I think we already tried to do something when we deployed the "secret Cuban Twitter":

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-26872866

Re:Cuba's “Internet” is a thumb drive that moves by bus by x5n1 on Monday June 15, 2015 @11:16AM (#9719838)
There are tons of capitalists the most notable being Carlos Slim, who will solve Cuba's internet connectivity problems in no time. This shit at this point is trivial. It's a question of cost. I am sure they will figure something out for their tiny Island nation.
Re:Cuba's “Internet” is a thumb drive that moves by bus by jahnu on Monday June 15, 2015 @12:03PM (#9720193)
> tiny Island nation.

It's not actually tiny. A little larger in area and population than Michigan. Only 7 US states are larger or more populous.

For a more international comparison it's about the same size as Bulgaria but has a lot more people.

Re:Cuba's “Internet” is a thumb drive that moves by bus by evilduck on Monday June 15, 2015 @12:51PM (#9720530)
I mean, by comparison to the entire U.S., Michigan's non-water area is only 2.5% of the overall U.S.

Relativistically and logistically speaking, it's a tiny amount of land to cover with internet.

Re:Cuba's “Internet” is a thumb drive that moves by bus by OneMoreIdol on Monday June 15, 2015 @12:29PM (#9720386)
Carlos Slim can't solve anything in Cuba. The problem with Cuba's connectivity is not the economic embargo nor is it technology (Chinese companies can supply everything needed for that). The problem is entirely political and cultural. The regime is already on thin ice, as over 2 million Cubans have access to the state-controlled internet (like clubs or through cafes) or a cell phone.
Re:Cuba's “Internet” is a thumb drive that moves by bus by mangecoeur on Monday June 15, 2015 @11:30AM (#9719948)
Agreed... let them figure things out their own way.