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Re:Oculus Rift by pavlov on Thursday June 11, 2015 @04:22PM (#9702132)
Not even close. The screens for each eye probably have about 1440 pixels of vertical resolution (I'm guessing they are Samsung OLED screens, similar to the display on the Galaxy S6). Imagine that resolution stretched out to fill your field of view and distorted by the lenses -- the perceptual resolution available for a virtual monitor would probably be less than VGA.

VR environments that can do high-quality typography will require something like 10k pixels vertical resolution. It's going to be more than a decade until we have the screens and GPUs that can push those pixels.

(I have a Samsung Gear VR with the Galaxy Note 4 which is a 2560*1440 screen split for two eyes, so I have a pretty good idea of what Oculus VR looks like on a 1440px screen.)

Re:Oculus Rift by ethbro on Thursday June 11, 2015 @04:46PM (#9702302)
> the perceptual resolution available for a virtual monitor would probably be less than VGA

It's a shame we weren't able to program on VGA monitors. :(

Re:Oculus Rift by pavlov on Thursday June 11, 2015 @06:12PM (#9702792)
VGA had 480 scanlines. When was the last time anyone seriously programmed on a display worse than that?

My guess would be Commodore 64 with an NTSC TV for display. That's pretty close to the text fidelity you can reproduce on a "virtual monitor" in a current-generation VR environment. (I think a lot of people underestimate the amount of resolution lost due to lens correction -- the rendered screen image is heavily distorted to account for the wide-angle lenses.)

Well, I suppose it would be sort of fun to have a virtual C64, as long as the virtual surroundings are well executed: a complete high school kid's bedroom from 1986.

Re:Oculus Rift by AHHspiders on Friday June 12, 2015 @01:16AM (#9704201)
So long as it has that sweet sweet lamborghini countach poster on the wall, i'm sold.
Re:Oculus Rift by derekp7 on Thursday June 11, 2015 @08:14PM (#9703232)
I recall being my most productive on an old IBM 3151 terminal (probably because of the keyboard, but also fewer distractions). It was only 80x24 characters. And 80x24 is easily represented in a 640x480 screen. Now add in head tracking, and you can have the screen move up and down and scroll the text in the opposite direction, making it appear as if you are moving a virtual picture frame over a bigger sheet of paper.

Even today, most of my (C / Bash) programming is done in an 80x24 xterm, although I'll typically have documentation open in another window. However web and GUI app development requires enough room to see the resulting product.

Re:Oculus Rift by mikekchar on Friday June 12, 2015 @07:04AM (#9705105)
Although I have much higher resolution, lately some occular migranes have forced me to up the font size on my monitor. Having really big type seems to stave off the migranes for some reason.

Anyway, I think I've been going for about a month and a half with 80x27 text displays (full screen with tmux). I'm doing web development and my browser is similarly scaled (thank god we're building something with a scalable UI).

I have not missed the screen real estate at all. Of course, I'm old and I used to always work on 80x25, so the extra 2 lines are luxury ;-)

Re:Oculus Rift by erikpukinskis on Thursday June 11, 2015 @09:52PM (#9703567)
For one of my projects, I am writing code Thet is meant to be read by the 99%, i.e. formatted to be readable on a phone. 40 chars wide, and I rarely look at more than 10 lines at a time.

It's generally fine. Every now and then I feel like I want to see the broader context of the code, but it's rare. In general it forces me to write much cleaner, more readable code, and to structure things better so that concerns are truly isolated and I don't need to look at a lot of code to see how things work. Overall I think it's a positive experience.

Re:Oculus Rift by brianorwhatever on Thursday June 11, 2015 @05:02PM (#9702412)
programming wasn't really possible until HD came around
Re:Oculus Rift by Avshalom on Thursday June 11, 2015 @05:22PM (#9702541)
other than "can't fall off a seat tray" there isn't much point in having 4 virtual monitors if it gives you less readable real-estate than a real monitor.
Re:Oculus Rift by ethbro on Thursday June 11, 2015 @05:57PM (#9702707)
Really? Even if the visible, readable real-estate is limited, I think there's be a huge usability boost from using... "virtual monitors" is a terribly ambiguous phrase... virtually co-located monitors?

The key metric for me is how much information I can access with input under a minimal threshold. From personal experience, a hotkey to swap virtual desktops (e.g. Alt+Up) still isn't the same as having multiple physical monitors to reference.

However, I'd expect VR head orientation changes to look at different monitors to be fairly similar perceptually to what I do now, since it's the same physical action.

The bigger problem for the seat-tray problem is, afaik, both Oculus and the Vive use externally located tracking devices. Would be curious whether a fuzzier, internal-sensor-only, limited "intent" tracking mode (e.g. flick head to switch monitor) would make people hurl or not.

Re:Oculus Rift by Tuna-Fish on Thursday June 11, 2015 @07:34PM (#9703119)
> Would be curious whether a fuzzier, internal-sensor-only, limited "intent" tracking mode (e.g. flick head to switch monitor) would make people hurl or not.

Yes, it would. This has been studied pretty extensively, the head movements need to be very precisely matched by rendering. The absolute worst you can do is any kind of non-linear response -- acceleration + lag can make people who are very tolerant of VR nausea literally throw up.

Re:Oculus Rift by moron4hire on Friday June 12, 2015 @10:02AM (#9705886)
Oh, it's not that bad. Jesus, people make more out of this stuff than is at all necessary. How did people ever adopt cars or boats, talking like that?

And use it on any sort of system that can show the outside world (AR, or pass through camera in VR) and it goes away completely.

Gesture interfaces could work.

Re:Oculus Rift by JoeAltmaier on Friday June 12, 2015 @10:05AM (#9705912)
Its that bad. Its a well-studied phenomenon called 'simulator sickness'. A kind of aphasia, for some it can persist for days beyond the initial experience.

If you don't experience it, good for you, you are one of the lucky ones.

Re:Oculus Rift by moron4hire on Friday June 12, 2015 @10:09AM (#9705948)
No, you don't know what you're talking about. Simulator sickness is not a black or white issue. It's even possible to avoid it by making the display worse.
Re:Oculus Rift by JoeAltmaier on Friday June 12, 2015 @10:12AM (#9705963)
Makes sense - worse means less involvement with your sensory expectations. Its when you're brain is convinced it should sense vestibular changes and it doesn't, that you throw up, get nauseous and dizzy etc. The difference between 'looking at' and 'believe you're inside of' a simulation hinges on the quality of the experience.
Re:Oculus Rift by 72deluxe on Friday June 12, 2015 @07:03AM (#9705102)
I used to program on a BBC Micro and that was low resolution.
Re:Oculus Rift by 0xdeadbeefbabe on Thursday June 11, 2015 @05:42PM (#9702642)
Well you could change the interface to not need so much resolution. Maybe you could use a giant card and punch out holes in it?
Re:Oculus Rift by dharma1 on Thursday June 11, 2015 @06:54PM (#9702986)
More than a decade sounds like a long time.

Oculus has been riding the smartphone screen density wave but I'm not sure that will continue much longer since for phone use going beyond 500ppi doesn't make much difference.

Maybe some kind of projected light field will be the next solution?

GPUs will keep getting faster and smaller. Have you seen NVIDIA X1?

Re:Oculus Rift by MattRix on Friday June 12, 2015 @01:13AM (#9704187)
"Maybe some kind of projected light field will be the next solution?"

already being done! http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Leap

Re:Oculus Rift by Otik on Friday June 12, 2015 @03:18AM (#9704460)
Magic Leap is more of an AR solution, like HoloLens, as opposed to VR (as far as anyone can tell, seeing as they haven't demoed anything publicly).

Nvidia's light-field stuff seems to be more of a VR solution, but requires even higher pixel densities. https://research.nvidia.com/publication/near-eye-light-field...

Re:Oculus Rift by MaulingMonkey on Thursday June 11, 2015 @06:38PM (#9702918)
I've seen the idea of multi-resolution rendering floating around, which I think has some promise when combined with eye tracking, would help with the GPU side of things.

Not so much on the "raw display hardware" side of things though. I could still see it being a decade+ out on that alone.

Re:Oculus Rift by Otik on Friday June 12, 2015 @03:23AM (#9704469)
Yep, foveated rendering. http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/projects/foveateddisplay...

Cool stuff, but it needs extremely fast and low latency eye tracking to work effectively. It's not insurmountable, but a significant engineering problem.

Re:Oculus Rift by moron4hire on Friday June 12, 2015 @12:33AM (#9704080)
>> not even close

Huh. What the fuck have I been doing for the last 6 months, then?

Re:Oculus Rift by pavlov on Friday June 12, 2015 @04:17AM (#9704625)
I'm not criticising your project at all -- just saying that my experience with current VR display tech is such that I can't imagine reading text for more than 30 seconds. The aliasing and distortion would make my eyes bleed pretty quickly.

The time will come for textual VR environments though! I can't wait to have "newspaper resolution" for textures (hold up a virtual newspaper in a VR world and you can actually read the text like it were a printed page). But I suspect it's not going to happen before the mid-2020s at least.

Re:Oculus Rift by moron4hire on Friday June 12, 2015 @07:59AM (#9705310)
It's nowhere near as bad as you've described. Even on the 960x1080 DK2, the readability of text has more to do with texture quality (both total resolution and good filtering for mipmaps). On a 2d display, the pixels are static on the display and text is mapped essentially 1-to-1 (or a fixed n-to-m when using subpixel antialiasing). But on an HMD, antialiasing is basically 'free', and the constant, minuscule bob of the head creates a dynamic, temporal aliasing that improves the readability of the text. We've known about the effect since the 80s or 90s, when psychologists figured out the dynamic environment of real flight improved the apparent eyesight of pilots over static images.

There are a lot of people who are doing text wrong in VR. You don't render at 10pt and expect it to look right. You have to pay attention and not just take the default settings.

I've spent much time reading and writing text in VR and it hasn't been a problem. If building a real, live code editing environment were my goal, I could have it done in a week. But I have different goals.

Re:Oculus Rift by pavlov on Friday June 12, 2015 @08:45AM (#9705480)
That's very interesting. My experience may be colored by the Oculus Mobile experience, which has a higher resolution than the desktop DK2 but a much weaker GPU and much less RAM to play with. (That's because the VR is rendered by the phone.)

Texture filtering on the Galaxy Note 4's embedded GPU is probably not a priority. On a 2560*1440 phone screen, who can even see those artifacts? So it could be that the hardware and drivers are taking quite a few shortcuts there, and those come to haunt on the Oculus.

Re:Oculus Rift by moron4hire on Friday June 12, 2015 @09:22AM (#9705648)
It could just be the programmers who made whatever you've tried don't know very much about texturing. Most of the AAA games I've tried in VR have not had text that was even remotely readable, and it was all because it was rendered too small.

The Gear VR has a fairly decent GPU. The move to mobile was more about discarding legacy fixed-function pipeline techniques and more directly optimizing for shaders. The main factor limiting texture-fill is GPU RAM. But most devices have more than enough RAM to be able to render text well.

VR is a realism multiplier. Traditional 3D graphics techniques are realism fakers. You shouldn't apply many traditional graphics techniques, because they have perspective-dependent artifacts that are subtle to impossible to notice in mono still images but glaring in stereo motion. So I think it's folly to apply too much effort on things like displacement shaders or stereo textures. These sort of things both A) cost a lot of time, and B) look terrible in an unrestricted stereo view. There's even new research to suggest one's general hormonal balance can have a huge impact in whether or not these miscues are going to cause simulator sickness in a user. You could literally be alienating half of your potential users along gender lines.

In the face of that, I think it makes more sense to stick to simpler techniques that respect the Hippocratic Oath: first, do no harm. We've been able to write some 3D games that run at 150fps for over a decade now. But there is no 150hz display to pair it with. V-sync is probably the most important issue, followed closely by running at native resolution (so for a given GPU, a lower resolution screen might actually be better, because it will be easier to hit the full refresh rate at the native resolution) and clean, consistent antialiasing. It wouldn't be a problem if both eyes were rendered identically, but having the dual eyes highlights any visual artifacts that appear. Match those three issues and the realism of the content doesn't matter, it could be flat-color, Phong-shaded cubes and you'll have a great VR experience. Miss any of them and even high-end games like Elite: Dangerous that are gorgeous on 2D will look like complete garbage.

VR has completely inverted the priorities of graphics programmers. Because of this, I think the primary VR innovation is going to come from indie developers, because most established companies can't switch their focus away from their 2D-display oriented consumer base. The Call of Duty series has sold over 175 million units. Assume nearly $40 a pop, that makes over $7 billion. You're not going to see VR getting anywhere near that for a few years still, and companies like Activision and EA aren't going to chase after such small potatoes in anyway other than just PR.

Re:Oculus Rift by jboggan on Friday June 12, 2015 @12:48AM (#9704113)
Please elaborate! I am curious what your experience and setup is. I have zero interest in consuming media or games through VR but I am really wondering how it can be productive. Do you get more work done compared to regular monitors, or is it the same work while feeling 199% cooler?
Re:Oculus Rift by corysama on Friday June 12, 2015 @03:13AM (#9704452)
Check the url in his profile.