News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Freightliner Inspiration Truck Unveiled at Hoover Dam by sbarre on Thursday May 07, 2015 @07:32AM (#9504287)
So, if I understand this, there is still a human in the truck, they're just not driving most of the time?
Re:Freightliner Inspiration Truck Unveiled at Hoover Dam by pgeorgi on Thursday May 07, 2015 @07:46AM (#9504355)
yes, for example for all parts of the route that are not on a highway.

They have the numbers that it's less stressful work, which they'll no doubt manage to compensate for soon enough with more work. They can also collect data that may help automating larger parts of the route. Or evidence that machines are more reliable than humans (making the case for building these things without a driver's seat)

Re:Freightliner Inspiration Truck Unveiled at Hoover Dam by jotm on Thursday May 07, 2015 @08:01AM (#9504426)
Basically, these drivers get first seat tickets to watching their jobs slowly being taken away from them by machines.
Re:Freightliner Inspiration Truck Unveiled at Hoover Dam by pjc50 on Thursday May 07, 2015 @09:14AM (#9504769)
In terms of what order to automate things away, truck driving isn't quite as bad as fruit picking or the more dangerous bits of the construction industry, but it's demanding, lonely, and unhealthy. I don't know how the US regulates awakeness, but in the EU there are strict limits on how long truck drivers can be on shift for. If they can sleep in the middle long-distance sections and drive the narrower local roads at the end, that reduces the need for sleep stops.

Or maybe the secret is that it's being remote controlled by players of the inexplicably popular Euro Truck Simulator.

Re:Freightliner Inspiration Truck Unveiled at Hoover Dam by jotm on Thursday May 07, 2015 @09:23AM (#9504819)
| Or maybe the secret is that it's being remote controlled by players of the inexplicably popular Euro Truck Simulator.

That would explain the mystery of titles like Forklift Simulator, Firetruck Simulator, Farming Simulator, Train Simulator and Car Mechanic Simulator :-)

Re:Freightliner Inspiration Truck Unveiled at Hoover Dam by lfowles on Thursday May 07, 2015 @11:01AM (#9505529)
Surgeon Simulator and Goat Simulator to extend this into the ridiculous :)
Re:Freightliner Inspiration Truck Unveiled at Hoover Dam by crymer11 on Thursday May 07, 2015 @09:25AM (#9504842)
Maximum of 11 hours driving after 10 consecutive hours off-duty, and no driving after 14 hours of coming on duty.
Re:Freightliner Inspiration Truck Unveiled at Hoover Dam by ams6110 on Thursday May 07, 2015 @09:36AM (#9504899)
it's demanding, lonely, and unhealthy

That's one point of view. Some people love it.

Re:Freightliner Inspiration Truck Unveiled at Hoover Dam by gambiting on Thursday May 07, 2015 @08:08AM (#9504458)
Can't the same thing be said about pilots though? They spend something like 1% of the total flight time actually controlling the plane, everything else is automated. Yet we can't actually get rid of them,because you always need to have someone who knows what to do in case of an emergency. I imagine it will be the same with truck drivers.
Re:Freightliner Inspiration Truck Unveiled at Hoover Dam by msandford on Thursday May 07, 2015 @08:13AM (#9504480)
Yeah, it's just a lot worse in the case of a truck than a plane. In a plane for 99% of the flight you've got MINUTES to deal with errors and avert a crash, since you're several miles up in the air.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadstick_landing

When you're in a truck everything seems to be OK until some kind of non-obvious corner case comes up and BOOM! "you" (the truck) just crashed into a car and killed a family.

Not a job I'd want since you probably have all the liability for the problems and none of the time to react that you'd want. Watching a truck drive itself -- if you're on call to jump in and try and avert a disaster -- is probably more stressful than just driving it yourself.

Re:Freightliner Inspiration Truck Unveiled at Hoover Dam by frenchman_in_ny on Thursday May 07, 2015 @10:46AM (#9505393)
This is old trope, and wrong. Small reminder that 100% of takeoffs and a vast majority of landings are flown by hand. That "1% of the total flight time" may be hand-flying the plane (ie, hands on stick and throttle), but all the flying that you're discounting in your 99% is still something that the pilot needs to handle. They need to manage the automation, the FMS, ATC, etc.

Patrick Smith (ask the pilot) has a number of good criticisms [0][1] of this "1%" trope.

[0]http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/10/opinion/why-pilots-still-m...

[1]http://www.askthepilot.com/pilotless-planes/

Re:Freightliner Inspiration Truck Unveiled at Hoover Dam by gambiting on Thursday May 07, 2015 @11:32AM (#9505783)
Thanks, this is genuinely very informative, I had no idea.
Re:Freightliner Inspiration Truck Unveiled at Hoover Dam by dEnigma on Thursday May 07, 2015 @08:19AM (#9504499)
A truck could just stop at the shoulder when something goes wrong and wait for assistance, while a plane still has to land, which is anything but easy, depending on the circumstances.
Re:Freightliner Inspiration Truck Unveiled at Hoover Dam by gambiting on Thursday May 07, 2015 @09:05AM (#9504720)
Like the other person pointed out - if you have a problem with a plane and the autopilot disengages, a pilot has minutes(sometimes several) to figure out what is going on and land the plane safely. If an automated truck is driving on a highway and one of the tyres blows out, the time between autopilot disengaging and the truck moving into opposite lane and colliding with someone head-on is measured in seconds. Obviously, there is no guarantee that a human driver would handle it better, but it's a real problem with automated cars.
Re:Freightliner Inspiration Truck Unveiled at Hoover Dam by pjc50 on Thursday May 07, 2015 @09:18AM (#9504797)
no guarantee that a human driver would handle it better

Assuming the control system is smart enough to cope with changes in control authority, it's got to be better - it has much faster reactions and direct access to the tyre pressure data.

A system where the autopilot disengages and gives up control without having confirmation that the human has taken over (by giving a control input) is an obvious danger though.

Re:Freightliner Inspiration Truck Unveiled at Hoover Dam by jotm on Thursday May 07, 2015 @09:17AM (#9504783)
Wait, but with the right sensors, a computer could respond way faster and better than a human, provided it has the right programming on what to do in specific conditions. That data could be aggregated from crash tests and actual drivers around the world.
Re:Freightliner Inspiration Truck Unveiled at Hoover Dam by gambiting on Thursday May 07, 2015 @09:32AM (#9504877)
>>provided it has the right programming on what to do in specific conditions

That's my exact point - you can't hard code in every single possible problem. And in case autopilot doesn't have sufficient data or programming to handle the situation it has no other choice but relinquish control to the driver, at a moments notice. Of course it could always try breaking with full force, but a) breaks might be damaged b) breaking is actually a bad idea, if any of the wheels are on a soft surface(like in my example, after a tyre blowout the truck has moved closed enough to the edge that wheels on one side are now on grass - applying maximum breaking force in this situation will actually tip over the truck, the correct solution is to keep going until the truck slows down by itself). The truck might not know what surface it's on or where it's going(say a bird hit the laser sensor on top), so the autopilot would fail spectacularly in this situation, which would not be very difficult for an experienced driver to handle.

Re:Freightliner Inspiration Truck Unveiled at Hoover Dam by Dylan16807 on Thursday May 07, 2015 @09:57AM (#9505036)
>The truck might not know what surface it's on

The truck should have a notably better feel for the surface than a human.

>say a bird hit the laser sensor on top

Say a bird hits the human driver in the face?

Re:Freightliner Inspiration Truck Unveiled at Hoover Dam by jotm on Thursday May 07, 2015 @09:14AM (#9504765)
I've never considered that, I thought they're there to please the government/bureaucracy (need to have a human, etc.). And judging by some of the latest plane crashes, a complete autopilot may not be that bad of an idea.

In case of trucks, I've always liked the idea of a convoy with one manned truck and several automated drones - seems like a good compromise.

Re:Freightliner Inspiration Truck Unveiled at Hoover Dam by gambiting on Thursday May 07, 2015 @09:23AM (#9504826)
>> And judging by some of the latest plane crashes, a complete autopilot may not be that bad of an idea

Well no - the problem with problems is that you can never predict all of them, and complete autopilot would either need to exhibit strong AI to deal with all(not possible right now) or have them all coded in(also not possible). Not to mention that complete power loss can, and has happened before - even if the steering still has power, without a computer running it won't do much good without someone who can move the stick. Or look at the landing on the Hudson River - would any computer ever decide to try it? I think the answer is no. If we had a ridiculously good AI, I think it would decide to crash land the plane somewhere with no people. River has people. There were bridges in the way. AI might not be 100% capable of gliding the plane with no engine trust and broken sensors -it would have simply not tried that landing. That plane only landed safely because the captain had experience with gliders and knew what to do.

Re:Freightliner Inspiration Truck Unveiled at Hoover Dam by Dylan16807 on Thursday May 07, 2015 @09:52AM (#9505004)
The perfect is the enemy of the good.

It's not like all pilots without that much glider experience are 'unsafe' because they can't recover in that extremely particular set of circumstances.

Even if we ignore the possibility of remote control, you don't need an autopilot that's better in every way than every existing pilot. You just need one that's better than the average pilot.

Re:Freightliner Inspiration Truck Unveiled at Hoover Dam by gambiting on Thursday May 07, 2015 @10:03AM (#9505092)
That is just deeply untrue. Even if automatic pilots had statistically less accidents than real ones, any accident caused by machine error would be greatly publicized, and manufacturer of the autopilot would have to pay $$$ in damages.

Let's use a different argument, just for the sake of it. Let's assume there exists a medical device, which never fails on its own, but due to operator errors 1/10000 patients who use this machine die.

Now someone makes a fully automated machine,but due to problems with programming it kills 1/100000 patients it treats(completely on random). Even though it's 10x better than your average operator, such machine would be banned from the market quicker than you can say "litigation". In our society human errors are much more easily forgiven than computer errors, because everyone believes that they could have been prevented. And therefore, a truck autopilot wouldn't need to be just better than your average driver - it would need to be absolutely perfect. And I don't think we are ready for perfect yet.

Re:Freightliner Inspiration Truck Unveiled at Hoover Dam by Dylan16807 on Thursday May 07, 2015 @10:09AM (#9505125)
People are stupid, but insurance companies are less stupid. It can be made to work, you just need enough of a profit potential for people to put up with the hassle.
Re:Freightliner Inspiration Truck Unveiled at Hoover Dam by frenchman_in_ny on Thursday May 07, 2015 @10:54AM (#9505471)
"judging by some of the latest plane crashes, a complete autopilot may not be that bad of an idea."

Until something[0] goes catastrophically wrong. The FMS on that flight threw so many errors that it couldn't compute landing performance metrics. In other words, because it couldn't handle the sheer number of aircraft system failures, it couldn't tell the pilots if the plane would be able to land on the runway and not overshoot it. The pilots hand to manually select which errors to override in order to have the system run its calculations.

[0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qantas_Flight_32

Re:Freightliner Inspiration Truck Unveiled at Hoover Dam by johnreddington on Thursday May 07, 2015 @08:09AM (#9504463)
If you think the only role of a truck driver is to steer and press the pedals you are terribly mistaken. That is the easy part to automate.
Re:Freightliner Inspiration Truck Unveiled at Hoover Dam by Shivetya on Thursday May 07, 2015 @09:07AM (#9504731)
for many package companies, think UPS/FedEx the automation of the long haul combined with automated yard facilities will certain come to bear. The loading and unloading occurs once the trailer is parked and that parking and moving to staging can be automated as well; providing the union agrees.

however many truck drivers usually are tasked with loading and unloading their trailers, most likely to occur when flat beds are picking up special cargo. Movers also tend to be part of the work crew as well. More than one friend has ventured in trucking only to return when they realized the amount of hard labor, if not dangerous labor they faced.

Re:Freightliner Inspiration Truck Unveiled at Hoover Dam by jchendy on Thursday May 07, 2015 @09:02AM (#9504703)
What's the hard part?
Re:Freightliner Inspiration Truck Unveiled at Hoover Dam by masklinn on Thursday May 07, 2015 @09:17AM (#9504787)
Navigating the endpoint/dock/whatever.
Re:Freightliner Inspiration Truck Unveiled at Hoover Dam by michaelbuckbee on Thursday May 07, 2015 @09:37AM (#9504915)
This makes me think that we'll end up with truck drivers who are more like tugboat captains. They know their distribution center and as automated trucks come in and park on the edge, they then do the fiddly work of getting it lined up at the right time to the right loading bay.
Re:Freightliner Inspiration Truck Unveiled at Hoover Dam by tombrossman on Thursday May 07, 2015 @09:54AM (#9505011)
I disagree. That could be automated exactly like 'self-parking cars' which has been a feature in some luxury cars for a while now.

The most challenging part mentally is accurate trip planning. Drivers try to predict exactly when to move to ensure an on-time delivery and have too many variables to do this with high accuracy. Then they will typically falsify logs and run illegally to make the logs match the date and time stamped documentation (toll reciepts, times stamped on delivery reciepts, etc).

I think that you'll find large trucking companies are happy to keep using cheap expendable labor, who will willingly bend the rules, as this gives the companies the plausible deniability they want.

Re:Freightliner Inspiration Truck Unveiled at Hoover Dam by sbarre on Thursday May 07, 2015 @08:09AM (#9504465)
Bah.. re-train them into knowledge workers while they sit there.. Provide them with a wireless workstation and they can do all kinds of other interesting work for the company while they sit there for hours on end..

Better than staring at the road..

Re:Freightliner Inspiration Truck Unveiled at Hoover Dam by enraged_camel on Thursday May 07, 2015 @09:36AM (#9504907)
Brilliant idea! Just give them one of these and a laptop and let them learn some coding on Codecademy while on the road: http://www.amazon.com/AutoExec-Wheelmate-Steering-Attachable...
Re:Freightliner Inspiration Truck Unveiled at Hoover Dam by pavel_lishin on Thursday May 07, 2015 @09:09AM (#9504741)
Speaking as someone who is sometimes on that road in a vehicle that is much smaller than a truck, I would strongly prefer that they keep staring at that road, and everything else on it.
Re:Freightliner Inspiration Truck Unveiled at Hoover Dam by Dylan16807 on Thursday May 07, 2015 @10:01AM (#9505074)
I'm in such a vehicle too, and I think you're crazy to want that. If they spend 6 hours unnecessarily staring at the road while autopilot is on, they're not going to be anywhere near peak driving condition when they do take over.
Re:Freightliner Inspiration Truck Unveiled at Hoover Dam by jotm on Thursday May 07, 2015 @09:18AM (#9504795)
Heh, yeah they could definitely learn some other profession while monitoring the truck. But it would probably be against the rules or downright illegal...
Re:Freightliner Inspiration Truck Unveiled at Hoover Dam by sbarre on Thursday May 07, 2015 @08:08AM (#9504455)
Interesting.. I always assumed the first iteration of this would be on separated lanes that ran alongside highways.. Maybe once they go full drone (never go full drone) that's what they will have to do, depending on public opinion..
Re:Freightliner Inspiration Truck Unveiled at Hoover Dam by Avshalom on Thursday May 07, 2015 @08:25AM (#9504528)
I believe cost per mile for a lane of highway starts in the millions range and can get towards the billion range going through cities. Thats assuming you can even get the land at any price.
Re:Freightliner Inspiration Truck Unveiled at Hoover Dam by mason240 on Thursday May 07, 2015 @09:51AM (#9504995)
What I am really looking forward too is RVs with this technology.

Simply load up the family, drive to freeway, and let the RV take over, and hang out in the back for 8 hours while going to your destination.

Re:Freightliner Inspiration Truck Unveiled at Hoover Dam by tootie on Thursday May 07, 2015 @09:45AM (#9504956)
This has just unlocked a dream for me. Imagine having a remote working kind of job (like, say a programmer). You could pretty much just do your job from the cabin of a long-haul truck pausing only occasionally to top up on fuel or drive through messy conditions the computer can't handle. It's an introvert dream come true.
Re:Freightliner Inspiration Truck Unveiled at Hoover Dam by pinaceae on Thursday May 07, 2015 @10:24AM (#9505222)
this will go in the other direction though - drones are remotely controlled, fleets of trucks will be as well. one operator, 25 trucks, only need to take over for special tasks.

depended on network coverage, yes, but most trucks move between well covered, urbanized areas.

Re:Freightliner Inspiration Truck Unveiled at Hoover Dam by mitchell_h on Thursday May 07, 2015 @08:33AM (#9504563)
This is also what farm equipment automation is currently taking. A human drives the tractor/combine/* into the field hits "Go" on a screen and turns around to watch what the implement is doing.