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Re:Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying ... by dillon on Sunday April 19, 2015 @03:10PM (#9404379)
I think this has been a discussion going on for a long time now. What I believe to be true is it really depends on the person. If you're someone who is self-conscious then yes you'll feel like everyone is judging you all the time. If you have the ability to stay focused on your work without being around colleagues then you should be allowed to work from home.

I've worked in open offices, offices with high partitions and from home. When I work from home what's stopping me from opening up news or playing video games? When I work in a partition and I need to talk to another engineer face-to-face I can't just glance over to see if they are available. Open offices lets me be around my colleagues and inspires me to focus on my work and get access to help promptly when I need it. I don't give a damn if they see me in a snuggie or sleeping under my desk.

I believe the real problem is the lack of choices. You should be able to choose the kind of environment you want to work in and not feel like you're forced in a situation you don't like. I think it's wrong to say "open offices are destroying the workplace".

Re:Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying ... by brandon on Sunday April 19, 2015 @03:47PM (#9404563)
I think that the majority of unhappy open-office employees are more upset with distractions than with the lack of privacy.

The widespread application of headphones to "solve" this problem is silly. It does nothing to screen out the visual distraction of working with 40 other people in your sightline, and it cuts you off from meaningful discussions with your direct peers.

I've been happiest in spaces where workgroups of 6-8 people were in large-ish shared offices that broke up sightlines and isolated noise. Doors that close, folks (partially frosted glass or not).

Re:Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying ... by fsloth on Sunday April 19, 2015 @03:26PM (#9404453)
"Open offices lets me be around my colleagues and inspires me to focus on my work and get access to help promptly when I need it. "

Actually any co-location scheme allows this, walls or no walls. It's a matter of culture, not of vertical dividers.

But I concur, it's a bit over the top to say that "everyone" hates open offices since clearly some people don't. Personally, to me it feels like a quarter suffers, of which there is a vocal minority, half don't give a damn and quarter thinks it's ok.

Personally I think open office is the worst to happen to the modern workplace. I like being around my team but I don't enjoy being consciously aware of the doings of the four other teams who share the space I'm in.

Team rooms. Those are golden. Better yet, rooms of 2-3 persons.

Re:Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying ... by stevesearer on Sunday April 19, 2015 @03:33PM (#9404472)
I run an office design website and I hardly ever see team rooms, which is very surprising and they seem like a good balance between collaborative space and privacy.

One of the offices I like to show as an example is Ubiquiti Networks, particularly images 3 and 4 (pardon the link to my own website): http://officesnapshots.com/2014/03/12/ubiquiti-networks-san-...

Re:Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying ... by makeitsuckless on Sunday April 19, 2015 @03:49PM (#9404575)
Those glass walls give me nightmares. I currently work for a company where once in a while I have to spend a whole day in an office with glass walls everywhere. By the end of the day I just want to lock myself in the bathroom, the feeling of constantly being on view and constantly seeing movement drives me completely nuts.
Re:Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying ... by stevesearer on Sunday April 19, 2015 @03:56PM (#9404602)
Glass walls are mostly used to ensure natural light is able to get into the innermost parts of the building. But your nightmare is my joy. This diversity in humans is one of the things which makes creating the idea work environment for all so difficult.
Re:Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying ... by edejong on Sunday April 19, 2015 @04:23PM (#9404722)
It certainly has an expensive ambiance. Personally I don't like glass-windows because of their acoustic properties.

Another thing I wonder: are office plants totally out of the picture nowadays?

Re:Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying ... by moe on Sunday April 19, 2015 @04:10PM (#9404664)
Sorry, but to me that office has the charme of a morgue.

The choice of materials and colors (metal, stone, glass and black) feels more suited to a parking garage than an office.

Also glass walls do not help with visual distractions. They can in fact make them worse due to reflections.

Re:Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying ... by fsloth on Sunday April 19, 2015 @03:42PM (#9404547)
That huge whole wall whiteboard in the teamroom is awesome.
Re:Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying ... by stevesearer on Sunday April 19, 2015 @03:59PM (#9404611)
If you navigate to the photos section, there is a collection of photos 'brainstorm rooms' displaying a variety of ways those are installed.

One important thing ton consider is not wasting $$$ on coating the walls above about 7' or below 3' as it is basically unusable without those funny library ladders.

Re:Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying ... by icebraining on Sunday April 19, 2015 @04:23PM (#9404724)
Is that an anechoic chamber? Why would they need that?
Re:Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying ... by brandon on Sunday April 19, 2015 @04:37PM (#9404779)
Ubiquiti makes wireless equipment, so this is not the traditional sort of anechoic chamber: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anechoic_chamber#Radio-frequenc...
Re:Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying ... by notahacker on Sunday April 19, 2015 @07:28PM (#9405311)
The "quarter that thinks its OK" is something of an understatement. Some of that quarter are self-employed people who still think it's so much better for their productivity to be around other people that they're prepared to pay money and sacrifice an hour commuting in order to sit at a desk in a big, trendily-decorated room with an assortment of other entirely-unrelated microbuses-owners rather than a desk in their own bedroom.

Other people have no choice whatsoever about where they work, but still enjoy their coworker interaction to the point they get bored and demotivated when the office is quiet. They might not be the most popular people in the office with programmers who also have no choice where they work, but from their point of view the open plan office is much better than sitting in a dreary box wondering if the question that's on their mind is actually worth getting out of their seat to go to ask a colleague about, whether marketing are in today and whether anyone else has made a sale yet.

Re:Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying ... by fsloth on Monday April 20, 2015 @12:17AM (#9406165)
"...to sit at a desk in a big, trendily-decorated room..."

I think that sounds more like a team room and not an open office. Team rooms are awesome.

I value spontaneous human interaction very much. I just don't value being aware of the spontaneous human interaction between 40 different people around me.

The key to understanding why open offices suck is that the amount of disturbance - statistically - is relative to the number of conversations that can spontaneously happen.

If we take n people then the number of spontaneous interactions is (back of the envelope) k * n * (n - 1) where k is some scaling factor.

It looks like this: https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&e...

The point is, the more people there are, the more disturbances there are - exponentially. It's totally different to work in a space with 10 people than with 20 people - in the latter there is a 4 times more likelihood there is a disturbance than with 10 people. If we compare a room with 4 people with 40 people then the room with 40 people have relatively 130 times more disturbing events despite there are only 10 times as people around.

This is of course a ridiculously simple model but I think it essentially captures the fact that very large rooms have different dynamics than just large rooms.

And I want that people communicate and ask things spontaneously! But I don't appreciate the fact that without walls people like me need to suffer from noises coming from four different teams. And I don't mean suffer in an aesthetic sense, but in a very gut wrenching, unhealthy, "I cannot concentrate on this algorithm and it pisses me off like no other thing in this earth" way.

"...they get bored and demotivated when the office is quiet."

Do you mean you get bored and demotivated or are you describing how someone else feels specifically about their job?

Could it be rather that their job is just not that meaningful to them? If that is the case then I would hold that as a point against open offices - give people tiny meaningless jobs and remove all the walls so they are peer pressured to perform. I'm obviously exaggerating here to make a point.

Re:Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying ... by geon on Sunday April 19, 2015 @04:55PM (#9404845)
> Team rooms

That explains why I don't recognize the horrors of open offices I read about.

I work for a small company with only 10 people spread over 2 rooms.

Re:Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying ... by zwily on Sunday April 19, 2015 @03:42PM (#9404546)
In my experience, your proportions seem pretty correct. Hard to tell that from this crowd though.
Re:Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying ... by gnaritas on Sunday April 19, 2015 @03:31PM (#9404465)
> When I work from home what's stopping me from opening up news or playing video games?

Being an adult. Really, do you require a baby sitter to keep you busy?

Re:Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying ... by magicalist on Sunday April 19, 2015 @03:43PM (#9404548)
Given the popularity of site-blocking apps like SelfControl, Freedom etc, yes, many people do need help with this. I don't use them, but I go through quite wide swings between ignoring many distractions to get work done to having trouble getting work done because of all the distractions (just plotting my HN comments alone would probably yield a nice sinusoidal wave).

And I absolutely use a choice of work space to help mediate this. When I used to freelance I had to get out of my apartment and work at a coffee shop to really start my day. Now I often have days where it's fine to work from home, but when I find myself completely distracted from work while at home I go into the office because it's just slightly less acceptable to be goofing off all the time there, and that's just the nudge I need to get into my work for the day.

Re:Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying ... by sheepmullet on Sunday April 19, 2015 @04:59PM (#9404853)
"Given the popularity of site-blocking apps like SelfControl, Freedom etc, yes, many people do need help with this."

The great thing about a computer is I am the master of it. That means if I have trouble focusing I can easily use these tools you mentioned in order to focus.

I can't do anything about my coworker eating a big bag of chips really loudly; or the sales staff laughing and joking around on the phone with clients all day long.

Re:Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying ... by gnaritas on Sunday April 19, 2015 @04:03PM (#9404631)
If the work can't keep your attention, perhaps you should find better work.
Re:Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying ... by Apocryphon on Sunday April 19, 2015 @04:12PM (#9404673)
This is an age-old problem.

* In a survey of more than 3,200 people conducted by Salary.com, 64% say they visit websites unrelated to work daily.

Source: http://business.time.com/2012/03/13/youre-wasting-time-at-wo...

Re:Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying ... by rhino369 on Sunday April 19, 2015 @04:27PM (#9404744)
And the other 36% are liars?
Re:Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying ... by icebraining on Sunday April 19, 2015 @04:28PM (#9404750)
Or they don't use computers at work - they just waste time in other ways :)
Re:Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying ... by pbhjpbhj on Sunday April 19, 2015 @03:52PM (#9404587)
>what's stopping me from opening up news or playing video games? //

Presumably nothing so long as your performance levels are maintained within the expected parameters. To my mind that's better, goal focussed rather than time focussed.

On the flip side there's probably nothing stopping you from waking up at 2am and doing some productive work for your employer then either.

Re:Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying ... by jsprogrammer on Sunday April 19, 2015 @03:36PM (#9404493)
Busywork shouldn't be the goal. Busywork is what is given to children when the adults don't want to deal.
Re:Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying ... by gnaritas on Sunday April 19, 2015 @04:02PM (#9404624)
You're projecting, no one said anything about busy-work. Busy does not mean doing unproductive work. Busy != busy-work.
Re:Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying ... by Apocryphon on Sunday April 19, 2015 @04:15PM (#9404687)
But it's inevitable that any job will involve some amount of busy-work. Such is the nature of work.

Busy-work isn't unproductive work- at least, not to the organization. Busy-work is work that the organization needs to have done, but the individual does not find interesting or satisfying to do. Any company is going to require busy-work.

Re:Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying ... by gnaritas on Sunday April 19, 2015 @05:06PM (#9404876)
> Busy-work isn't unproductive work

That's exactly what it is.

> Busy-work is work that the organization needs to have done, but the individual does not find interesting or satisfying to do.

That is not what the term means. Busy work: work that keeps a person busy but has little value in itself. What you're describing is simply boring work. If the work is useful, it is by definition not busy work.

Re:Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying ... by jsprogrammer on Sunday April 19, 2015 @04:24PM (#9404728)
Projecting?

Not-busy != not-productive

Re:Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying ... by dang on Sunday April 19, 2015 @08:37PM (#9405518)
> Being an adult. Really, do you require a baby sitter to keep you busy?

Please don't be personally rude on HN.

Re:Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying ... by gnaritas on Sunday April 19, 2015 @11:48PM (#9406073)
You're being overly sensitive, that wasn't rude.
Re:Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying ... by wglb on Monday April 20, 2015 @11:54PM (#9412195)
This borders on a personal attack. Don't do this.
Re:Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying ... by gnaritas on Wednesday April 22, 2015 @11:18AM (#9421029)
No it doesn't. It's not even remotely in the same universe as a personal attack. I suggest you stop making baseless accusations.
Re:Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying ... by wglb on Wednesday April 22, 2015 @01:00PM (#9421785)
Your comments in this thread continue to be rude and judgmental. Telling the moderator that they are being overly sensitive is not a good plan, and violates the guidelines https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html, particularly in "Be civil"
Re:Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying ... by SamReidHughes on Thursday April 23, 2015 @03:54AM (#9425426)
Try reading gnaritas's comments more charitably.
Re:Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying ... by icebraining on Sunday April 19, 2015 @04:27PM (#9404748)
You're posting on a forum with a "noprocrast" setting, designed to block the user at his/her own request.

No, most of us can't fully control ourselves on everything, which is why we set up systems that help us. A shared office is one such a system.

Re:Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying ... by stevesearer on Sunday April 19, 2015 @03:26PM (#9404452)
Agreed. I like the concept of Activity Based Working. http://space.ucsf.edu/activity-based-workplace
Re:Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying ... by amelius on Sunday April 19, 2015 @04:15PM (#9404690)
I think I'd prefer to be in the focus room almost all day :)
Re:Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying ... by jfoutz on Sunday April 19, 2015 @04:12PM (#9404674)
I think you're much more self aware about how you solve problems than i am. Most problems are just exploring a configuration space. Stuff like using a hashtable instead of a set, because there's extra associated information, or traversing a datastructure in a different order. Perhaps complex, but ultimately understandable changes.

Sometimes though, the impossible happens. Maybe a race condition or something. In those cases i find myself questioning my mental model, which is good. It leads me compare what i think is happening to what is actually happening. If i don't find that mismatch, my mind sort of tenses up.

Those terrible problems lead me to question my understanding of reality and my self worth. Some things are just hard. I really do just check out and play video games for a while. Something in my mind relaxes, my subconscious chews on the problem for a while. Sometimes i have to sleep before I feel like i can continue.

When i'm working near my limits, i get weird. I know other poeple who just grit their teeth and go on. I've tried that, but it feels like the road to burnout for me. I know others deal with that well.

Talking sometimes helps, but because my understanding is flawed, my explanation has the same flaws. Some people are good at helping identify the false belief, but usually I still have to let that realization tumble around in my mind for a while before i feel comfortable enough to continue.

Re:Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying ... by vonmoltke on Monday April 20, 2015 @11:55AM (#9408925)
That is part of my problem. When I get into those modes I want to pace and talk to myself as I go through the problem. Sharing space really puts a crimp in that.
Re:Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying ... by sheepmullet on Sunday April 19, 2015 @04:54PM (#9404837)
"I think it's wrong to say "open offices are destroying the workplace"."

Id estimate maybe 25% of open office workers are seriously negatively impacted by an open office.

To put that in perspective if 25% of workers at a company were subject to bullying or sexual harassment we would certainly label the work environment extremely toxic... Even if another 25% were happy and productive in it.

Re:Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying ... by sheepmullet on Sunday April 19, 2015 @04:41PM (#9404792)
"When I work from home what's stopping me from opening up news or playing video games?"

It sounds like the low grade anxiety and stress of an open office actually helps keep you on track. Frequent deadlines is a similar kind of pressure that some people excel with.

I'm the same when I get plenty of downtime at work. If I can take a long lunch break and follow it up by going to the gym and nobody at work minds because I am overall very productive then the low grade stress etc actually helps me focus.

Re:Google got it wrong. The open-office trend is destroying ... by drwolf on Sunday April 19, 2015 @03:45PM (#9404553)
Very true. There are both positives and negatives. What we really need is choice. Sometimes I want to code in peace, some times I want to stand and hear what everyone is doing.