Smartphones and tablets are at least 15 years old too. Bill Gates used to run around CES telling everyone that tablets were the future.

Anyway, for the "Post PC era" to truly take off, we're going to need portable wireless keyboards that "just work". Tablets are going to replace desktops for most people, once we figure out how to attach better input devices. The Microsoft keyboard does appear to be a big step in the right direction, if it actually works.

Does "post PC era" even have a meaning to anyone other than tech pundits? Is tablet hardware really better, or do people just prefer the software experience? In a world of commodity hardware that distinction is quite important. People will buy an IPad because it is easy to use and will reject the Windows 8 laptop because it is hard to use and ignore the practicality of the hardware.

It's both the hardware and the software. For $500, you can get a high quality, well designed piece of hardware tightly coupled with the software and it does everything you need it to do. If the iPad breaks, throw it out and get a new one. But chances are, it won't break (that is, unless you break it).

Meanwhile for $500, you can get a cheap plastic laptop that will break on its own through normal wear and tear. It runs an OS that is far more advanced than what you need. The OS needs maintenance, and you need to pay attention to what you're doing. It's super hard to keep a computer running. You might not think it is, but look at the existence of Geek Squad and how many people are afraid of their computer, or can't do simple things. But they're using iPads like an expert.

That's post-PC. You and I will keep our x86 systems with massive globs of RAM and terrabytes of hard drive space because we need them. And the rest of the world will finally get to use their computing devices the way they want to use them for a change.

In general I think building operating systems is difficult and sooner or later you get a bad apple (no pun intended). Apple may have avoided this but it is common on Windows and some Android devices to have strange issues that are never really resolved. As we pile platform on top of platform this kind of emergent property becomes more likely. By simplifying things you just delay this for a few years before the bloat starts to pile up sooner or later somewhere in the stack.

We could easily see a return to more traditional hardware that gets back to simplicity. I would love to see affordable SoC laptops with discrete graphics running something like Ubuntu and Steam. This would be an amazing combination of reliable OS, high quality free software, and access to entertainment. Selling a device with good software included should be a selling point instead of tricking people into an app store pyramid scheme.

In general I do agree with you. But I have to point out that even Apple has been facing this type of issue recently.

E.g. The Wi-Fi issue in iOS 8. Already on 8.2 and not fixed for many people.

Is this inescapable?

I guess this can be the case but at least in my totally-unscientific anecdotal experience, it's not quite there yet for everyone. About 3-4 years ago I bought an iPad 2 for around $650 because I was going to be traveling a lot and wanted something reasonably capable to take along while not adding a lot of weight to my backpack. Maybe 6 months later, my girlfriend wanted a lighter laptop to replace her old Dell but she didn't have a lot to spend at the time. I spent about $500 on a fairly low powered (i3, 4GB RAM, Intel GPU, touch screen, etc) Asus laptop because it was very light and reasonably capable and well built for such a low cost.

Today, that iPad has cracks in the screen from the minor bumps and scuffs it's taken over the years. After several iOS updates it's become slow and tedious to use. Wifi reception is terrible so I often have trouble using it when sitting in bed, exactly one floor above my home router. Opening more than one or two tabs in the web browser causes each one to reload when switching and overall performance is barely acceptable.

Contrast this with the less expensive Asus laptop. My girlfriend still uses it as her sole personal computer and runs Office apps, connects to her work VPN for access to company resources, uses it to watch movies on Netflix, browses the web, and plays casual games. It runs just as well as it ever did and while there are also minor scuffs on the housing, the screen has no sort of cracking and the touch input still works as it always has.

I think that a big part of this has been how iPads and the more "appliance" style tablets have gotten more capable but so have more traditional notebook and desktop computers. Likewise, the performance you get from budget/entry class computers continues to go up even as hardware stays cheap.

At some point, the whole "post-PC" thing will happen as the traditionally "non-PC" devices continue to become more capable up to the point where they can do 90% of the average PC user's tasks. But then, aside from the inability to customize or upgrade, what makes them not PCs?

Meanwhile, I bought an original iPad, and a first gen iPod Touch that my kids are still happily using today. My 19 year old daughter learned (via Youtube) how to replace iPod/iPad screens and has a small side business going...

Possibly, in that the PC was "open" while these new devices are more and more locked down.

Just look at Android. Now a days a app can't really get direct access to the filesystem. Everything has to go through the "media storage".

The way i see it, these "post PC" devices are Big Media's wet dream. Now they can get the DRM enforcement built in that before they had to attempt to "hack" in (Sony's rootkit, anyone?).

> Tablets are going to replace desktops for most people, once we figure out how to attach better input devices.

That already exists, it's a netbook. Or worst case scenario, one of those netbooks with detachable screen.

I don't think so - my mum was trying to get a cheap-ish new replacement for her 5 year old 10" netbook last month. It's very very hard to do. Certainly when you compare the spec:price ratio of anything on the market today compared to a tablet + bluetooth keyboard.

Netbooks are being subsumed by laptops, as laptops get smaller. Several of the "ultrabooks" are thinner and lighter than my old Dell Mini 9. The 11" models are perfectly acceptable "netbooks", they just don't call them netbooks anymore because that was an indicator that it was kind of a crappy computer, but was small and cheap and good enough for browsing the web. The cost is getting closer to netbooks, as well, though I guess the really thin and light laptops are still pretty pricey...they will converge fully eventually.

In short, tablet has taken the place of the "crappy tiny laptop", and the modern good laptop has gotten closer to the size of the crappy tiny laptop without being crappy. The sweet spot for the netbook has shrunk to the point where it almost doesn't exist anymore, and thus there are no netbooks.

And frankly, MS and Intel basically made it this way.

Both freaked when the netbook first hit. Intel because they could make for a passable citrix client and so undermine their lucrative ultraportable segment. MS because it was Linux on a off the shelf product.

So what we got was some very stringent spec requirements from the two to make a underperforming mini-laptop running Windows XP (remember that MS was trying to sell Vista at the time).

What looked like a interesting experimental market (one early model had a thumb sized touchpad sitting near the screen hinge rather than a touchpad below the keyboard) ended up another pile of rebranded clones.

But even the 11" models cant replace tablets. Imagine a scenario, you are travelling in a train or a bus-you cant open the 11" laptop/netbook, while traveeling. And as far as the debate about tablets replacing desktop goes, that might be possible when tablets get stronger/better processors

There are plenty of 2-in-1 Windows laptops where the tablet is completely detachable from the keyboard. Some are very popular, like the Asus Transformer T100 wiht a 10.1inch screen. (Yes, Asus launched an Android version years ago.)

There are other Windows laptops where the screen folds back to provide a slightly heavier tablet, like the Lenovo Yoga 2 series and the HP11 x360.

Windows 8.1 tablets can support USB keyboards and full-size screens. Hook them up to a expanison hub and they can support multiple screens. I wouldn't recommend one as a desktop replacement, but then, I wouldn't recommend a MacBook Air as a desktop replacement either.

Makes me wonder how well a updated Fujitsu U1010 would do today.

We used to have quite a few nice, small machines. The one of the Psion Series 5 was amazing for the size. I had an HP Windows CE machine that was only a little bigger and the keyboard was even better. Lack of USB, SD and Wi-Fi rather limits their usefulness nowadays ;-)

Errr... "The one of the Psion Series 5" should be "The keyboard of the Psion Series 5...". Sorry,

Why is an HP Stream (for example) not a cheap replacement for a 10-inch netbook? It's a lot faster, has better graphics, has a better screen resolution, and actually costs less.

the Asus X205 is amazing bang for the buck

I got some older model (no touch screen, dual-core and only 1GB of ram) and it is indeed amazing. Perfect for work anywhere, when you put a lightweight Linux distro on it.

If Linux or ChromeOS is an option, a Chromebook might do. Other than that it is indeed difficult to find anything.

Yeah i remember the UMPC push. Was way more interesting designs flying around back then. Now it is all "multitouch".

One example: http://www.tabletpcreview.com/tabletreview/samsung-q1-ultra-...

> Smartphones and tablets are at least 15 years old too. Bill Gates used to run around CES telling everyone that tablets were the future.

[citation needed]

It was COMDEX in Las Vegas. He gave the keynote.

http://news.cnet.com/Gates-defends-PC-at-Comdex,-unveils-new...

http://news.microsoft.com/2001/11/11/gates-showcases-tablet-...

Thanks. Exactly what I was hoping for. Totally worth the downvotes for asking.

You didn't get downvoted for asking. You got downvoted for the way you asked. [citation needed] is incredibly rude.

Respectfully, I don't think you'll find much sympathy here on HN with a reply in that vein, even from people who would agree with you.

I find it amusing that asking for source, using wikipedia's standard, is considered ”tone” of any sort, let alone a rude one.

No offense was intended in the grandparent.

I know I certainly consider that specific reply to be flippant, and I know there are others who do as well. I don't know if it's the general opinion of people on the Internet to view it as flippant, but at least on HN, the general culture is to not use Reddit-esque short-form replies, and to articulate a full response that uses your own words. Wikipedia isn't exactly known for being a welcoming community.

I think what sets it apart in my mind is the "needed". In a Wikipedia article aiming to be authoritative and correct it may very well be "needed", but in a HN comment it is not "needed", it is "requested". Perhaps even "humbly requested". And the conflation of those 2 words tend to make the requester come off as judgmental/abrasive.

Everyone gets the reference, but it's not really the same situation.

It was just a matter of luck, try using [citation needed] with an argument the HN Community usually disagrees with (for ex. one which favors C or C++ over Rust or Go), and the results will be completely different.

Based on my own experiences with /r/programming and /r/startups, HN is very reasoned, respectful, and lacking in fanaticism in comparison. I think a lot of that has to do with the expectations that the moderators have established and their enforcement thereof. Though I don't necessarily agree with the mostly invisible way in which they do, I've never ran a site this big, so I don't really have the background necessary to argue on what is most effective.

Yes, it's not perfect, but nothing is, and that's not a good enough reason to give up on trying.

In general HN is pretty centered, but there is always a slight bias, I don't complain about it, it is expected, there's no place without bias.

But when you play the devil's advocate you have to take a little bit of extra care in your wording, or at least, this is the pattern I have noticed when your argument disagrees with the consensus.

Ok, we changed the url from http://time.com/3728441/microsoft-keyboard-folding/ to the Microsoft page.

>probably a pretty mediocre typing experience.

It's obviously no mechanical keyboard, but it's a full sized keyboard none the less, and it allows you to enter large amounts of text into your smartphone much easier than what was previously offered.

I would call that a major improvement in the keyboard arena, not a mediocre typing experience.

The limited rate of data entry was what pulled me away from owning a smartphone. I have a dumbphone and I use my laptop for all my serious work. It's nearly impossible to write code on any smartphone out there as of yesterday. But today I would consider getting a smartphone to actually work on. Probably with an HDMI output on it, too. Just in case.

I still prefer when the phone has an integrated keyboard [1]. Less battery drain due to bluetooth, more convenient since you don't loose screen real estate, and your muscle memory develops in no time.

Too bad the marked decided they didn't want this form factor anymore.

[1] http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/wireless/detail-p...

I know what you mean, I have tried to code on my phone far too often!

Wireless keyboard for smart phones aren't new, though. This one is convenient, but you can use existing wireless keyboard with just about any iOS device: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202041

The TextBlade looks fascinating. There were only demos of it running on iOS and Android devices, but I hope it can be compatible with OSX, Windows, and Linux too.

It's bluetooth so it's compatible with any bluetooth capable OS.

Is all the required software onboard the device itself? I thought it was using some kind of paired application to handle processing the input.

edit:

>With the TextBlade, WayTools can deliver over-the-air updates to keep firmware up to date, something that's not possible with most keyboards. The TextBlade will have more functions six months after it's released than it does today. For example, one upcoming update will add multi-device support, and that update is coming a few weeks after launch.

Source: http://www.macrumors.com/2015/03/06/hands-on-with-the-textbl...

So it seems that there is enough brain inside the device to handle it all, if I'm reading that correctly. Interesting.

The keyboard can't get OTA updates unless it can communicate with the update server. That means it has either WiFi or 3G or the tablet gets the files and uploads them to the keyboard. Probably the latter.

Why would a keyboard need firmware updates? This is like the NSA wet dream, more pointless "IoT".

Bug fixes? If something needs a firmware to begin with, it probably needs firmware upgrades.

It's a keyboard.

It's not rocket science, how hard can it be to make a bug-free keyboard firmware? It's not this is virgin ground either, keyboards have been built for decades which had no bugs.

If you look up the TextBlade, you will immediately see why its firmware needs to be more complex than your average keyboard.

Ok, I did looked it up, and still can't find anything worth updating? Different keyboard layouts?

In the end of the day it's still a keyboard. You click the keys and it sends keycodes down a wire or using Bluteooth. What's there to update?

Well, since it uses multitouch and some smarts to figure out which letter in one of the merged keys you wanted to type, I imagine it would be more useful to update that algorithm than in a keyboard where one button press = one keycode. This goes especially so if that algorithm uses any text based prediction, although I don't know whether it does. The multitouch, combined with an accelerometer I read the device has, could also be used to add interesting gestures or pressure-sensitive functionality that don't directly map to key presses. You could send the raw data over the air instead of using firmware on the device, but then nothing would be able to use it out of the box, so what's the advantage?

I think you're being purposefully obtuse here. This device is obviously more complicated than a standard keyboard and would definitely benefit from having a) sophisticated firmware, and b) the ability to update the firmware.

"keyboards have been built for decades which had no bugs."

Keyboards also haven't changed significantly for decades, we still use the same basic design, exterior(QWERTY) and interior(keyboard matrix circuit).

It surely can be used, but the lack of modifier keys would make the experience a lot worse than with an usual keyboard.

Cut and paste seems to have buit-in shortcuts, I'm not sure about things like cmd+space, ctrl+tab etc. There don't even seem to be an escape key.

https://waytools.com/products/textblade/2/numbers-symbols It has Cmd (which I presume doubles as Ctrl for non-Apple?). It has physical Tab and ⌂ in the CapsLock position; the latter suspiciously is marked only in green, and I wouldn't be surprised if it also does Escape. And surely you can map Esc somewhere with https://waytools.com/store/showroom/info/multimap/tablet

Select and Edit combos (on home row!) let you access arrows, dedicated prev/next word, home/end and replaces Ctrl+ZXCV. So you're using Cmd(/Ctrl) and Shift less in favor of home row chords. To further deprecate Shift (leaving only letters and <>?"), most punctiuation moved to the Fn layer (the green modifier though they don't call it that).

That makes a lot of sense, as thumb-activated Cmd and Fn ought to be more comfortable than Shift.

The only loss in modifier convenience is numbers requiring Fn but that's cheap price for a row off.

=> Seems it has almost everything. The big missing modifiers are Alt and Win/Super. OTOH there is a "Media" modifier they don't elaborate on. I hope the remapping software is flexible enough to map at least Alt.

There will be a big learning curve for shortcut users, though modifier usage _ought_ to be actually more convenient than standard keyboards. (all theoretic)

Hmm, I'm off to try https://superuser.com/questions/96299/mapping-superhjkl-to-a...

The name "TextBlade" is eerily reminiscent of the phone from Nathan Barley (the Wasp T12 Speechtool: http://www.trashbat.co.ck/t12/index.html)

Are there any detailed reviews on textblade from actual humans? Googling around i find only copy-paste advertisements, and to say that their website doesn't fill me with confidence would be a massive understatement.

I was also skeptical (despite pre-ordering) until this review came out. http://www.macrumors.com/2015/03/06/hands-on-with-the-textbl...

That's not a very good review. It's long, but he only got to use it for a very short time in tightly controlled conditions.

I'm interested in the textblade. Was the moment I first heard of it. But I've never spent $100 on a keyboard. I would like at least a good honest review from a programmer I've heard of and respect. I would definitely prefer a hands on at a store before plucking down that kind of cash.

I think $100 would be a reasonable price to pay for a keyboard that you use for many hours every day over several decades. The Textblade seems like something that I'd use in short intervals here or there for a year or two.

Keyboards and mices from Microsoft and Logitech used to cost around $20-$30 and were of such a high quality that MTTF was about 10 years. Nowadays their products do not meet my needs (no 1990s/2000s traditional business style, only fancy form factors) and are overpriced with lower quality.

I don't think I have encountered any keyboard that would last for several decades.

Most keyboards from <1990 that have been treated reasonably well are still be in good working order today (or are at least repairable). It’s only really the last 25 or so years that keyboards have been on a downward cost/quality spiral.

IBM's model M keyboard is more than three decades old and built like a tank. Old model M keyboards are still in high demand on places like eBay.

My favorite freestanding desktop keyboard is still the original Macintosh Extended Keyboard[1] (the 2 is ok, but not as good as the original). I still have one in use on my linux machine. It requires a ADB to USB converter, but it's HID and so it works with anything. That keyboard is from the 1990 timeframe, so it's about 25 years old now and still works wonderfully.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Extended_Keyboard

Goldtouch has a good track record and IBM heritage, http://allthingsergo.com/blog/reviews/goldtouch-keyboard-rev...

You can return it within 30 days of receiving it for a full refund. This means you can do your own review which is really all that will matter.

I am hoping that it helps greatly with special keys compared with standard keyboards. I am very curious about how it works with keyboard navigating type software such as Vim.

I pre-ordered it.

A Model M can cost you north of $100 these days. Of course, this isn't a model M...

The TextBlade looks pretty cool. Looks like it would take a lot of training to get proficient at as well. The MS keyboard is very nice looking and would work for casual typing. It might be a better buy than the cheapie keyboard that the Surface Pro comes with, which is one sucky keyboard.

Weird, that website design for way tools looked strangely familiar to nextengine.com. Digging further it looks like the same team.

I've been using a similar keyboard for months. It's a bit awkward and I get stares at coffee shops, but it's an amazing way to crank out emails on my large screen phone. It's the most portable office I've ever had. http://www.amazon.com/Chocolate-High-touch-Bluetooth-Flyshar...

It looks similar to a type cover for microsoft's surface. In that case typing will be quite good. I prefer it to any other laptop keyboard that I've used. Of course you can't expect it to be as good as a conventional keyboard.

The video link on TextBlade's site is broken.

I'm pretty sure they screwed something up, since it points to https://waytools.com/products/textblade/1/undefined.

Note "undefined"!