Does "post PC era" even have a meaning to anyone other than tech pundits? Is tablet hardware really better, or do people just prefer the software experience? In a world of commodity hardware that distinction is quite important. People will buy an IPad because it is easy to use and will reject the Windows 8 laptop because it is hard to use and ignore the practicality of the hardware.

It's both the hardware and the software. For $500, you can get a high quality, well designed piece of hardware tightly coupled with the software and it does everything you need it to do. If the iPad breaks, throw it out and get a new one. But chances are, it won't break (that is, unless you break it).

Meanwhile for $500, you can get a cheap plastic laptop that will break on its own through normal wear and tear. It runs an OS that is far more advanced than what you need. The OS needs maintenance, and you need to pay attention to what you're doing. It's super hard to keep a computer running. You might not think it is, but look at the existence of Geek Squad and how many people are afraid of their computer, or can't do simple things. But they're using iPads like an expert.

That's post-PC. You and I will keep our x86 systems with massive globs of RAM and terrabytes of hard drive space because we need them. And the rest of the world will finally get to use their computing devices the way they want to use them for a change.

In general I think building operating systems is difficult and sooner or later you get a bad apple (no pun intended). Apple may have avoided this but it is common on Windows and some Android devices to have strange issues that are never really resolved. As we pile platform on top of platform this kind of emergent property becomes more likely. By simplifying things you just delay this for a few years before the bloat starts to pile up sooner or later somewhere in the stack.

We could easily see a return to more traditional hardware that gets back to simplicity. I would love to see affordable SoC laptops with discrete graphics running something like Ubuntu and Steam. This would be an amazing combination of reliable OS, high quality free software, and access to entertainment. Selling a device with good software included should be a selling point instead of tricking people into an app store pyramid scheme.

In general I do agree with you. But I have to point out that even Apple has been facing this type of issue recently.

E.g. The Wi-Fi issue in iOS 8. Already on 8.2 and not fixed for many people.

Is this inescapable?

I guess this can be the case but at least in my totally-unscientific anecdotal experience, it's not quite there yet for everyone. About 3-4 years ago I bought an iPad 2 for around $650 because I was going to be traveling a lot and wanted something reasonably capable to take along while not adding a lot of weight to my backpack. Maybe 6 months later, my girlfriend wanted a lighter laptop to replace her old Dell but she didn't have a lot to spend at the time. I spent about $500 on a fairly low powered (i3, 4GB RAM, Intel GPU, touch screen, etc) Asus laptop because it was very light and reasonably capable and well built for such a low cost.

Today, that iPad has cracks in the screen from the minor bumps and scuffs it's taken over the years. After several iOS updates it's become slow and tedious to use. Wifi reception is terrible so I often have trouble using it when sitting in bed, exactly one floor above my home router. Opening more than one or two tabs in the web browser causes each one to reload when switching and overall performance is barely acceptable.

Contrast this with the less expensive Asus laptop. My girlfriend still uses it as her sole personal computer and runs Office apps, connects to her work VPN for access to company resources, uses it to watch movies on Netflix, browses the web, and plays casual games. It runs just as well as it ever did and while there are also minor scuffs on the housing, the screen has no sort of cracking and the touch input still works as it always has.

I think that a big part of this has been how iPads and the more "appliance" style tablets have gotten more capable but so have more traditional notebook and desktop computers. Likewise, the performance you get from budget/entry class computers continues to go up even as hardware stays cheap.

At some point, the whole "post-PC" thing will happen as the traditionally "non-PC" devices continue to become more capable up to the point where they can do 90% of the average PC user's tasks. But then, aside from the inability to customize or upgrade, what makes them not PCs?

Meanwhile, I bought an original iPad, and a first gen iPod Touch that my kids are still happily using today. My 19 year old daughter learned (via Youtube) how to replace iPod/iPad screens and has a small side business going...

Possibly, in that the PC was "open" while these new devices are more and more locked down.

Just look at Android. Now a days a app can't really get direct access to the filesystem. Everything has to go through the "media storage".

The way i see it, these "post PC" devices are Big Media's wet dream. Now they can get the DRM enforcement built in that before they had to attempt to "hack" in (Sony's rootkit, anyone?).

> Tablets are going to replace desktops for most people, once we figure out how to attach better input devices.

That already exists, it's a netbook. Or worst case scenario, one of those netbooks with detachable screen.

I don't think so - my mum was trying to get a cheap-ish new replacement for her 5 year old 10" netbook last month. It's very very hard to do. Certainly when you compare the spec:price ratio of anything on the market today compared to a tablet + bluetooth keyboard.

Netbooks are being subsumed by laptops, as laptops get smaller. Several of the "ultrabooks" are thinner and lighter than my old Dell Mini 9. The 11" models are perfectly acceptable "netbooks", they just don't call them netbooks anymore because that was an indicator that it was kind of a crappy computer, but was small and cheap and good enough for browsing the web. The cost is getting closer to netbooks, as well, though I guess the really thin and light laptops are still pretty pricey...they will converge fully eventually.

In short, tablet has taken the place of the "crappy tiny laptop", and the modern good laptop has gotten closer to the size of the crappy tiny laptop without being crappy. The sweet spot for the netbook has shrunk to the point where it almost doesn't exist anymore, and thus there are no netbooks.

And frankly, MS and Intel basically made it this way.

Both freaked when the netbook first hit. Intel because they could make for a passable citrix client and so undermine their lucrative ultraportable segment. MS because it was Linux on a off the shelf product.

So what we got was some very stringent spec requirements from the two to make a underperforming mini-laptop running Windows XP (remember that MS was trying to sell Vista at the time).

What looked like a interesting experimental market (one early model had a thumb sized touchpad sitting near the screen hinge rather than a touchpad below the keyboard) ended up another pile of rebranded clones.

But even the 11" models cant replace tablets. Imagine a scenario, you are travelling in a train or a bus-you cant open the 11" laptop/netbook, while traveeling. And as far as the debate about tablets replacing desktop goes, that might be possible when tablets get stronger/better processors

There are plenty of 2-in-1 Windows laptops where the tablet is completely detachable from the keyboard. Some are very popular, like the Asus Transformer T100 wiht a 10.1inch screen. (Yes, Asus launched an Android version years ago.)

There are other Windows laptops where the screen folds back to provide a slightly heavier tablet, like the Lenovo Yoga 2 series and the HP11 x360.

Windows 8.1 tablets can support USB keyboards and full-size screens. Hook them up to a expanison hub and they can support multiple screens. I wouldn't recommend one as a desktop replacement, but then, I wouldn't recommend a MacBook Air as a desktop replacement either.

Makes me wonder how well a updated Fujitsu U1010 would do today.

We used to have quite a few nice, small machines. The one of the Psion Series 5 was amazing for the size. I had an HP Windows CE machine that was only a little bigger and the keyboard was even better. Lack of USB, SD and Wi-Fi rather limits their usefulness nowadays ;-)

Errr... "The one of the Psion Series 5" should be "The keyboard of the Psion Series 5...". Sorry,

Why is an HP Stream (for example) not a cheap replacement for a 10-inch netbook? It's a lot faster, has better graphics, has a better screen resolution, and actually costs less.

the Asus X205 is amazing bang for the buck

I got some older model (no touch screen, dual-core and only 1GB of ram) and it is indeed amazing. Perfect for work anywhere, when you put a lightweight Linux distro on it.

If Linux or ChromeOS is an option, a Chromebook might do. Other than that it is indeed difficult to find anything.

Yeah i remember the UMPC push. Was way more interesting designs flying around back then. Now it is all "multitouch".

One example: http://www.tabletpcreview.com/tabletreview/samsung-q1-ultra-...

> Smartphones and tablets are at least 15 years old too. Bill Gates used to run around CES telling everyone that tablets were the future.

[citation needed]

It was COMDEX in Las Vegas. He gave the keynote.

http://news.cnet.com/Gates-defends-PC-at-Comdex,-unveils-new...

http://news.microsoft.com/2001/11/11/gates-showcases-tablet-...

Thanks. Exactly what I was hoping for. Totally worth the downvotes for asking.

You didn't get downvoted for asking. You got downvoted for the way you asked. [citation needed] is incredibly rude.

Respectfully, I don't think you'll find much sympathy here on HN with a reply in that vein, even from people who would agree with you.

I find it amusing that asking for source, using wikipedia's standard, is considered ”tone” of any sort, let alone a rude one.

No offense was intended in the grandparent.

I know I certainly consider that specific reply to be flippant, and I know there are others who do as well. I don't know if it's the general opinion of people on the Internet to view it as flippant, but at least on HN, the general culture is to not use Reddit-esque short-form replies, and to articulate a full response that uses your own words. Wikipedia isn't exactly known for being a welcoming community.

I think what sets it apart in my mind is the "needed". In a Wikipedia article aiming to be authoritative and correct it may very well be "needed", but in a HN comment it is not "needed", it is "requested". Perhaps even "humbly requested". And the conflation of those 2 words tend to make the requester come off as judgmental/abrasive.

Everyone gets the reference, but it's not really the same situation.

It was just a matter of luck, try using [citation needed] with an argument the HN Community usually disagrees with (for ex. one which favors C or C++ over Rust or Go), and the results will be completely different.

Based on my own experiences with /r/programming and /r/startups, HN is very reasoned, respectful, and lacking in fanaticism in comparison. I think a lot of that has to do with the expectations that the moderators have established and their enforcement thereof. Though I don't necessarily agree with the mostly invisible way in which they do, I've never ran a site this big, so I don't really have the background necessary to argue on what is most effective.

Yes, it's not perfect, but nothing is, and that's not a good enough reason to give up on trying.

In general HN is pretty centered, but there is always a slight bias, I don't complain about it, it is expected, there's no place without bias.

But when you play the devil's advocate you have to take a little bit of extra care in your wording, or at least, this is the pattern I have noticed when your argument disagrees with the consensus.