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Re:Tim Cook Speaks Up by efaref on Thursday October 30, 2014 @08:03AM (#8532421)
If they won't buy Apple products because the CEO is gay, they probably shouldn't buy any computers at all, seeing as the entire field is built on the work of a gay man.
Re:Tim Cook Speaks Up by egil on Thursday October 30, 2014 @08:27AM (#8532508)
To be honest, I for one know very little about the important persons in <enter orthogonal branch of science here>, gay or not. We might all know about the terrible fate of Alan Turing, but I don't expect non-cs people to know.

(Thanks to gpvos for the correction of faith->fate. )

Re:Tim Cook Speaks Up by gpvos on Thursday October 30, 2014 @08:53AM (#8532598)
*fate (at least I hope you mean that)
Re:Tim Cook Speaks Up by dghf on Thursday October 30, 2014 @09:30AM (#8532762)
Maybe he meant the bad faith shown towards Turing by the British Establishment.
Re:Tim Cook Speaks Up by egil on Thursday October 30, 2014 @09:32AM (#8532772)
Of course. Terrible mistake!
Re:Tim Cook Speaks Up by sspiff on Thursday October 30, 2014 @09:19AM (#8532711)
Oh no, he surely meant the terrible atheist beliefs Turing upheld during the later half of his life!
Re:Tim Cook Speaks Up by cookiecaper on Thursday October 30, 2014 @12:51PM (#8534137)
Why should the work product of an individual be restricted only to people who agree with his choices? If someone doesn't buy Apple products because the CEO is gay, they're saying they don't want to send money to people promoting a homosexual lifestyle, not that they can't respect his work and not that they don't appreciate it.

Do you agree with all of the life choices made by every innovator throughout the centuries, many of whom were very religious and almost assuredly would've been anti-gay had such a movement existed in their time? It may make sense to deprive these people of money now if you disagree with them, but it doesn't make sense to discharge all the output of their life's work once there's no more threat of them actually receiving direct monetary aid from your purchases, and it doesn't make sense to denigrate the product on its own basis, independent from the behavior or ideals of the original creator. We should recognize good wherever we can find it.

Re:Tim Cook Speaks Up by brown9-2 on Thursday October 30, 2014 @08:22AM (#8532491)
You shouldn't assume that bigots are rational.
Re:Tim Cook Speaks Up by _pmf_ on Thursday October 30, 2014 @08:12AM (#8532447)
Konrad Zuse was not gay.
Re:Tim Cook Speaks Up by aikah on Thursday October 30, 2014 @08:22AM (#8532492)
hmm ,i guess he is talking about Alan Turing who was literaly sentenced to a horrible treatment for being gay.

That's one of the greatest shame of UK,it symbolizes bigotery in its purest form.

Re:Tim Cook Speaks Up by oracuk on Thursday October 30, 2014 @09:04AM (#8532645)
It was one of our (many) great failings and as a nation we have accepted that:

Prime Ministers Apology: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/sep/11/pm-apology-to-a...

Royal Pardon: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/world-war-two/10536246/Al...

Re:Tim Cook Speaks Up by natch on Thursday October 30, 2014 @10:02AM (#8532934)
Is it possible to knight someone posthumously? Has this happened?
Re:Tim Cook Speaks Up by crazypyro on Thursday October 30, 2014 @10:18AM (#8533036)
No. No. In fact, in past times ( of kings and queens), one man was killed in a battle and his brother was given a much higher title because you cannot give the honorable title to a deceased individual.
Re:Tim Cook Speaks Up by codeoclock on Thursday October 30, 2014 @12:44PM (#8534083)
Not only can you not knight deceased people, but when knights die they lose their title. #QuiteInteresting. #whenwillhnsupporthashtags.
Re:Tim Cook Speaks Up by thathonkey on Thursday October 30, 2014 @09:25AM (#8532735)
Well, at least there's that.
Re:Tim Cook Speaks Up by oneeyedpigeon on Thursday October 30, 2014 @08:29AM (#8532519)
Compared to which country that has never persecuted anyone for being gay?
Re:Tim Cook Speaks Up by aikah on Thursday October 30, 2014 @08:47AM (#8532581)
This isnt a bigotery contest hey? I was talking from the point of view of someone who has the greatest respect for what Turing has done.I mean that's a shame that everything he has done for his country mattered very little when he was judged for being gay.
Re:Tim Cook Speaks Up by omonra on Thursday October 30, 2014 @09:06AM (#8532654)
Bigotry is a wrong word to use (afaik) in a historical context. It simply means 'what we consider unacceptable by today's social norms'.

It was absolutely stupid and unjust (since most upper classes were involved in buggery in school anyways) - but calling it bigoted is like saying 'it was so yellow of them to do'.

Re:Tim Cook Speaks Up by oneeyedpigeon on Thursday October 30, 2014 @09:10AM (#8532677)
OK, maybe I mis-read your original comment. It came across as being very anti-UK:

"That's one of the greatest shame of UK,it symbolizes bigotery in its purest form."

but I accept I might have read stronger sentiment into that than was intended.

Re:Tim Cook Speaks Up by sumedh on Thursday October 30, 2014 @08:20AM (#8532478)
I think he is talking about Alan Turing.
Re:Tim Cook Speaks Up by eevilspock on Thursday October 30, 2014 @08:28AM (#8532517)
On one hand, we have a man who worked with the Nazis, and on the other, we have a man persecuted and chemically castrated by the British government for his sexual orientation, who many believe committed suicide as a result.
Re:Tim Cook Speaks Up by goatforce5 on Thursday October 30, 2014 @09:50AM (#8532875)
I saw a bunch of these Android pride shirts around Toronto Pride a few months back:

https://www.googlestore.com/Google+Redesign/Brands/Android/A...

Quick, homophobes! Burn your Android phones!

Re:Tim Cook Speaks Up by scragg on Thursday October 30, 2014 @10:18AM (#8533038)
I also saw their new "And You" ad on broadcast TV which features a gay couple getting married. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRmgMe2STL0
Re:Tim Cook Speaks Up by mlrtime on Thursday October 30, 2014 @08:14AM (#8532454)
If there is a standard distribution of gay men and women in the population, wouldn't that be true of any product? Sure, it could be higher in tech fields however there is a high probability of a gay man or woman building most the products we use.
Re:Tim Cook Speaks Up by amelius on Thursday October 30, 2014 @08:18AM (#8532468)
If you want to take the statistical approach, then you could also say that there exists a nonzero probability that it is not the case :)
Re:Tim Cook Speaks Up by computerjunkie on Thursday October 30, 2014 @09:40AM (#8532814)
>>> seeing as the entire field is built on the work of a gay man.

That's a rather inaccurate, cringe worthy and generic statement. If your saying only one person contributed to the field of computers in 2014, that's sad.

We tend to glorify individuals in the eyes of media and forget [1]others who contributed to where we are today in technology.

[1] http://www.computerhope.com/people/ - list of people who have contributed to computers.

Edit: Thanks to oneplusone, I realised that he was speaking about Alan Turing. But why base a field on only one person regardless of sexuality. Why is sexuality the issue in the first place?

Re:Tim Cook Speaks Up by j2kun on Thursday October 30, 2014 @10:19AM (#8533045)
But why base a field on only one person>

Because Alan Turing is the father of computer science. Basically everything that came after depended crucially on his work.

Re:Tim Cook Speaks Up by computerjunkie on Thursday October 30, 2014 @10:34AM (#8533135)
George Boole, Charles Babbage, John von Neumann, Grace Hopper

- To name a few great contributors. Yes Alan Turing is considered the father of computer science but with out the knowledge of others before him (and even during his time) we could be living in a different world right now.

Even the late, great Isaac Newton said - [1]"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants."

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standing_on_the_shoulders_of_g...

Re:Tim Cook Speaks Up by _dark_matter_ on Thursday October 30, 2014 @12:26PM (#8533938)
To put it a different way: Turing was necessary, but not sufficient. We needed him, and the entire field is built on his work. But his is not the only contribution; indeed, many others needed to also contribute to be sufficient for the field we know today.

In this light, it seems the original comment is correct.

Re:Tim Cook Speaks Up by jshevek on Thursday October 30, 2014 @01:23PM (#8534354)
Turing made great contributions, and had a great mind. But we did not need him, or any other particular individual.

What do you think would have happened if Turing had never been born?

Perhaps we would never have had a single individual who contributed as much, all at once, as Turing did... but the sum total of his contributions WOULD have been made by other people, eventually.

Re:Tim Cook Speaks Up by anextio on Thursday October 30, 2014 @06:44PM (#8536265)
> Turing made great contributions, and had a great mind. But we did not need him, or any other particular individual. > What do you think would have happened if Turing had never been born?

And yet, he was born, and he did contribute, and we remember him for that, and we remember what his peers did to him in response. And we learn a lesson from that.

Why is this controversial?

Re:Tim Cook Speaks Up by jshevek on Thursday October 30, 2014 @10:06PM (#8536952)
Why is what controversial? Your preceding sentence? It isn't. Why do you think its controversial? And why do you think its related to my sentences?

The only thing which might be controversial (but really shouldn't be) is the observation that people make foolish and illogical claims when they let their passions drive them to hyperbole. For example, claiming that computer science NEEDED Turing. That without Turing, we would not have computer science.

Its simple. Worship him all you want for what he actually did, but please don't fall prey to the belief that "without so-and-so, X would NEVER have been developed". Or "without so-and-so, we would still be doing Y".

Nonsense. Some other person or group of people would have made those contributions.

This has nothing to do with how horribly he was treated. And if you want to highlight the sickness of the world by pointing out the genius of one of the victims of our diseased culture, that's cool, but we can do that without going off into a fantasy land where some individual was uniquely, in all the world, uniquely capable of making the contributions they made.

Re:Tim Cook Speaks Up by Thimothy on Thursday October 30, 2014 @02:40PM (#8534898)
Well, that statement is generally true, but Turing appeared in a very sensitive moment of history (WWII) and was critical for a very special task (The decryption of the Enigma Machine). Computer science would probably be fine without him, but maybe history would have beeen quite different, so we needed him.
Re:Tim Cook Speaks Up by efaref on Thursday October 30, 2014 @11:21AM (#8533428)
Of course, Turing was one of many. But he was one, and that's enough to make the homophobes run for the hills.
Re:Tim Cook Speaks Up by lotsofmangos on Thursday October 30, 2014 @12:44PM (#8534074)
Many seem to think that he wrote that in the letter just to annoy Robert Hooke, who was rather short in height.
Re:Tim Cook Speaks Up by oneplusone on Thursday October 30, 2014 @09:47AM (#8532853)
He is referring to Alan Turing I believe.
Re:Tim Cook Speaks Up by computerjunkie on Thursday October 30, 2014 @09:57AM (#8532911)
Thank you for the clarification.