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Re:Why So Few Violent Games? by mark_l_watson on Wednesday July 02, 2014 @05:10PM (#7979739)
When I worked at Angel Studios about 15 years ago (doing projects for Nintendo and Disney), one of the many things that I liked about the company was a conscious decision by the four owners of the company to not create violent content. They were a class act.

Not too far off topic: my brother and my grandson absolutely love violent games. I don't understand the appeal. What I do like are driving games and strategy games.

Re:Why So Few Violent Games? by darkFunction on Wednesday July 02, 2014 @05:21PM (#7979814)
The appeal is in infinite possibilities, sport and teamwork. Single player games don't appeal to me as an adult, the outcome is scripted and the characters are hollow for the most part. It's entirely passive and a film or book gets to the point quicker for me. Violent multiplayers though- Counter Strike or Battlefield- give rise to fluid, human, tense stories. Stories in the context of violence sure, but real and non-scripted. It's yours and not the developers'.
Re:Why So Few Violent Games? by cyounkins on Wednesday July 02, 2014 @05:38PM (#7979924)
Please describe the story of Counter Strike, because I've logged hundreds of hours on the game and have no idea what you're talking about.
Re:Why So Few Violent Games? by gknoy on Wednesday July 02, 2014 @06:16PM (#7980139)
As others have mentioned, it's not about the game, but specific experiences you had. I have memories of intense stand-offs when rescuing hostages, or the one time I had an __absurd__ streak of luck and managed to single-handedly wipe out the entire other team (never since repeated).

Some of my strongest gaming memories are of the first (?) level of Rogue Spear (one of the Rainbow Six games), where I was hunting terrorists in the Met. It was fifteen years ago, but I still remember how upset I felt when I saw a virtual character fall down after being shot, and I can still remember the intense despair that crushing my elation when a hostage panicked and ran in between me and the terrorist (and I shot him). I played that level so many times that I can probably still sketch the map. I remember nothing else about the game, but the experience of playing that one map stays with me.

This is a completely different kind of "story" or memory than one's going to get from a game like Borderlands.

Re:Why So Few Violent Games? by Hytosys on Wednesday July 02, 2014 @06:24PM (#7980201)
With all due respect, it doesn't sound like the simulated violence had much to do with the nostalgia you're describing. Not that I don't believe that violence can't be a tool used to evoke empathy, but effective stories can certainly be devised without hyperrealistic violence.
Re:Why So Few Violent Games? by darkFunction on Wednesday July 02, 2014 @05:57PM (#7980029)
Story in the sense a game of football has a story.
Re:Why So Few Violent Games? by stonemetal on Wednesday July 02, 2014 @06:05PM (#7980080)
As per what he said there is no "Story of Counter Strike" and that is what he likes about it. It is a framework for him and his team mates to invent a story of struggle told in near misses and heroic wins.

Why he has trouble inventing the same stories with robotic team mates and opponents I am not sure, but he seems to find value in the shared experience.

Re:Why So Few Violent Games? by sgarman on Wednesday July 02, 2014 @06:01PM (#7980060)
I think by stories the author means real adventures with you and your teammates for that specific match - not some sort of CS lore. Each match brings new humans that will play, react, chat differently then an AI in a single player game.
Re:Why So Few Violent Games? by mark_l_watson on Wednesday July 02, 2014 @05:38PM (#7979925)
OK, thanks, that makes sense. That said, I worked on some prototypes of multi-player racing games and "dicing" with friends around a racetrack has a bit of the appeal you mentioned.

I do watch a few fairly violent movies a year, it is just the violent games that I don't enjoy.

Re:Why So Few Violent Games? by Retric on Wednesday July 02, 2014 @05:48PM (#7979972)
I have been thinking you could probably build an open ended world with a reasonably deep autogenerated quest system. there are already weak AI systems that can respond to open ended text fairly well. Start with some basic relationships and the game could decide the second son wants to kill his older brother to take the therone but needs to frame someone to take the fall... Ect.

You can Restrict dialog choices while still giving the player real choices.

Re:Why So Few Violent Games? by loup-vaillant on Wednesday July 02, 2014 @05:40PM (#7979937)
Interestingly, even extremely graphically violent games on the surface can be felt as non-violent in a competitive setting. I recall this "playing to win" essay, talking about Street Fighter. (If characters punching each other to unconsciousness is not violent, I don't know what is.)

In fighting games, competitive players tend to concentrate on the structure behind punches and suffering. They see a game of anticipation, dexterity, and timing. They talk about hit boxes, priorities, frame advantage… Those players would probably enjoy an abstract version of those fighting games.

Hmm… we could even test that: could we make a game that have a similar structure to Mortal Kombat, only it doesn't even look like 2 characters punching each other to death?

Re:Why So Few Violent Games? by wrthomps on Wednesday July 02, 2014 @06:23PM (#7980179)
Hi, fighting game player here. You're very right about the way we see the games: Ryu's Shoryuken isn't a stylish kung-fu uppercut, it's an attack that's invincible on startup and with a strong vertical hitbox, making it useful against jumping attacks and to beat careless attacks from the opponent, but which is easily punishable if blocked.

The essay you're referring to is written by a man named David Sirlin, and he runs a website where he talks about his ideas on game design[1]. He's perhaps most known in the community for helping to bring to light the concept of "yomi," (lit. "reading"), the process of taking actions specifically to get a grasp on your opponent's thought process and be able to predict it. To him, that's the one pure essence of fighting games (though this view is not universally held).

In fact, he's already done something like you describe. He designed a card game named, appropriately enough, Yomi[2], that attempts to bring the core of a fighting game into a card game format. Much like in fighting games, attacking beats throws, throws beat blocking, and blocking beats attacks. Hitting a player allows you to attempt to combo them, but the opponent can play cards (that may be bluffs) which can break the combo.

He did something similar with chess, calling it Chess 2, though it's much less popular than Yomi.

[1] http://www.sirlin.net

[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yomi_(card_game)

Re:Why So Few Violent Games? by cwyers on Wednesday July 02, 2014 @05:53PM (#7980009)
It's interesting that you bring up Mortal Kombat, which wasn't the first fighting game, or necessarily even the best fighting game, but it certainly was the one that looked the most like two characters punching each other to death.
Re:Why So Few Violent Games? by loup-vaillant on Wednesday July 02, 2014 @06:57PM (#7980367)
Actually, I choose to name that one precisely because of its violence. Hopefully helps make my point.

I would have liked to select another name for its underlying mechanics, but I'm not knowledgeable enough.

Re:Why So Few Violent Games? by hcarvalhoalves on Wednesday July 02, 2014 @06:33PM (#7980247)
If you abstract any game you'll end up with chess or something similar. Deep down all games are about luring the other player into doing something you expect. You are left with a decision tree.

That has a lot less appeal than fast paced, cool looking ninjas kicking each other - hence why video games are an art form and not just intellectual exercise.

Re:Why So Few Violent Games? by Qworg on Wednesday July 02, 2014 @11:39PM (#7981316)
Divekick is a game that doesn't necessarily take out the violence, but does pare the fighting game down to its barest essentials.

You only have two moves - jump and divekick.

Re:Why So Few Violent Games? by 10098 on Wednesday July 02, 2014 @05:46PM (#7979964)
> I don't understand the appeal.

What's the appeal of action movies?

It's fun. Haven't you ever tried blowing something up when you were a kid?

Re:Why So Few Violent Games? by morsch on Wednesday July 02, 2014 @06:08PM (#7980098)
That's begging the question. Why is it fun?
Re:Why So Few Violent Games? by oldmanjay on Wednesday July 02, 2014 @06:30PM (#7980233)
Asking people why they like what they like is a pointless exercise.

And generally, in my experience, it comes from a place of arrogance on the part of the person doing the asking, because the next phase is talking down about how the "reasons" aren't valid.

Re:Why So Few Violent Games? by saraid216 on Wednesday July 02, 2014 @10:31PM (#7981155)
Re:Why So Few Violent Games? by 10098 on Wednesday July 02, 2014 @06:49PM (#7980326)
It's just the way we are. We like dominating and winning. There's at least a little bit of bloodlust in everyone, without those traits we wouldn't be able to become the dominant species on our planet.
Re:Why So Few Violent Games? by EpicEng on Wednesday July 02, 2014 @05:30PM (#7979865)
Angel Studios released Resident Evil 2 in 1999. Non-violent you say?
Re:Why So Few Violent Games? by hcarvalhoalves on Wednesday July 02, 2014 @05:41PM (#7979942)
IMHO, I don't think violence is the main point of Resident Evil, it's more about the horror/suspense.

A bit different than mindless violence as in e.g., GTA, Call of Duty, Battlefield, etc.

Re:Why So Few Violent Games? by EpicEng on Wednesday July 02, 2014 @06:43PM (#7980302)
I agree that RE is not as bad as GTA, but I don't care what adults do in their free time, and children shouldn't be playing GTA period. I don't think you can seriously make the argument that RE isn't a violent game though.

The "point", or motivation, isn't all that relevant. You're still shooting things in the face and getting your throat torn out while you writhe in pain, so let's keep the goalposts in place.

Re:Why So Few Violent Games? by mark_l_watson on Wednesday July 02, 2014 @05:35PM (#7979892)
That was after I left :-)
Re:Why So Few Violent Games? by EpicEng on Wednesday July 02, 2014 @06:44PM (#7980310)
Ahh, yes, it does seem to be their first violent game. It was 15 years ago, so I wasn't sure.
Re:Why So Few Violent Games? by jiggy2011 on Wednesday July 02, 2014 @05:15PM (#7979764)
Only non violent strategy games?
Re:Why So Few Violent Games? by saraid216 on Wednesday July 02, 2014 @05:17PM (#7979783)
When you're at the thousand-foot view, the fact that a baneling hit causes marine gore to fly several yards to the edge of the map is sort of... beside the point.