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A comment on Starting An Airline.

Re:Starting An Airline by jayzalowitz on Monday May 19, 2014 @09:20PM (#7770770)
Anyone else want to kickstart an airline that operates with as few humans as possible? You aren't allowed to check luggage at all...(all the underbelly goes to companies like fedex and ups) just attacking it as an engineering problem?
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Starting An Airline by balls187 on Monday May 19, 2014 @09:25PM (#7770787)
I'd go for the opposite.

An exclusive airline that is basically 1st class through out the entire cabin.

* No carry-on suit cases

* Free alcohol

* Free meals on all flights

Membership required, and can be revoked by:

* Talking on your cell phone

* Not following crew member instructions

* Trying to prevent the person infront of you from reclining

* Trying to jump the line and board when your row isn't called

* Not being able to actually lift 40lbs but requesting an exit row seat anyway

* Trying to smash your carry on into an already full overhead bin

* Listening to music loudly etc.

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Starting An Airline by iLoch on Monday May 19, 2014 @09:31PM (#7770806)
You said:

    * No carry-on suit cases
And then you said:

    * Trying to smash your carry on into an already full overhead bin
Are you sure this isn't just a list of your air travel pet peeves? :)
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Starting An Airline by batiudrami on Monday May 19, 2014 @10:18PM (#7770920)
I assume you'd be allowed a small bag of carry on (with a laptop/book/whatever in it), just not a 'maximum allowable size suitcase with everything you need', specifically to avoid paying the checked baggage fee.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Starting An Airline by batiudrami on Monday May 19, 2014 @10:17PM (#7770912)
The people have spoken, and they like cheap as shit tickets in cattle class with no extras. And it's easy to see why - I'd pay maybe 10% more for an experience you describe, but it wouldn't be 10%, it'd be at least 200% more, probably significantly higher than that.

Maybe when I'm older and a 12 hour flight in economy becomes really unpleasant instead of just an inconvenience.

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Starting An Airline by balls187 on Tuesday May 20, 2014 @12:25AM (#7771244)
I would assume this would cater to individuals with some amount of discretionary spending (like those who don't mind using uber, instead of a significantly cheaper public transit option), but aren't quite ready to pay for 1st class.

Doing an even more bareboned airline is just a race to the bottom. Eventually you'll end up with like MAC flights in a C130 sitting in a jumpseat.

So instead, try the opposite. A nicer airline.

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Starting An Airline by dagw on Tuesday May 20, 2014 @06:30AM (#7771883)
You mean something like Eos, Silverjet, Maxjet and no doubt a half dozen other bankrupt companies? It's not like no one has had that idea before. It' been tried, again and again, and no one has made it work. Now obviously that's not saying you can't make it work, but so far the track record of everybody who has tried isn't that great.
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Re:Starting An Airline by sachinag on Monday May 19, 2014 @09:33PM (#7770814)
Eos tried business class only from JFK to London. It didn't work.
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Re:Starting An Airline by khuey on Monday May 19, 2014 @10:06PM (#7770888)
Seems to work for BA.
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Re:Starting An Airline by dingaling on Tuesday May 20, 2014 @01:23AM (#7771341)
BA have added Economy class to their previously business-only OpenSkies.
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Re:Starting An Airline by jayzalowitz on Monday May 19, 2014 @09:26PM (#7770791)
I actually sort of like the membership idea, that makes the rest really easy and invalidates the need for a "rewards program" Just always provide good service.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Starting An Airline by jonah on Monday May 19, 2014 @09:32PM (#7770811)
Something like: http://www.surfair.com/
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Starting An Airline by kd5bjo on Monday May 19, 2014 @09:33PM (#7770816)
see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legend_Airlines
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Re:Starting An Airline by Anechoic on Monday May 19, 2014 @10:37PM (#7770965)
An exclusive airline that is basically 1st class through out the entire cabin.

Midwest Express tried this in the late 1990's-early aughts. It didn't work out for them.

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Starting An Airline by blantonl on Monday May 19, 2014 @09:47PM (#7770850)
... and this is why entrepreneurship in airlines has not hit it's peak - yet.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Starting An Airline by us0r on Monday May 19, 2014 @09:57PM (#7770874)
This is basically International airlines:

* Free alcohol * Free meals on all flights

plus some.

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Starting An Airline by hobs on Monday May 19, 2014 @10:08PM (#7770896)
Unless you are flying first class, there is no free alcohol on the international flights I have been on.

To all my children posters, I am clearly doing it wrong.

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Starting An Airline by saryant on Monday May 19, 2014 @10:15PM (#7770908)
Depends on the routes. Most non-US airlines still offer free alcohol on trans-Pacific flights. Lufthansa offers free beer and wine on trans-Atlantics.

Lufthy even offers free alcohol in coach on intra-EU flights.

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Starting An Airline by mFixman on Monday May 19, 2014 @11:13PM (#7771079)
American Airlines offered alcohol on the Dallas <-> Buenos Aires route as of last month, like every other long distance flight I've been in.
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Re:Starting An Airline by maccard on Monday May 19, 2014 @10:38PM (#7770968)
I flew economy from London to Mumbai with as much booze as I could handle, both directions. There was some sort of ban on serving alcohol in Indian airspace, but outside of that they were happy to keep giving me tiger beer until I fell asleep.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Starting An Airline by seanmcdirmid on Monday May 19, 2014 @11:18PM (#7771094)
I have never been on a flight between Asia and the USA that didn't offer free alcohol, but then I don't drink and never take it anyways.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Starting An Airline by MarkSweep on Monday May 19, 2014 @10:49PM (#7771004)
Singapore Airlines even had Singapore Slings, which are pretty good.
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Re:Starting An Airline by us0r on Monday May 19, 2014 @10:42PM (#7770980)
Air France has free booze in any class.
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Re:Starting An Airline by mattmaroon on Monday May 19, 2014 @10:26PM (#7770942)
I wouldn't fly an airline that forced me to check a bag. Getting it back at the gate takes too long.
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Re:Starting An Airline by dsl on Monday May 19, 2014 @09:34PM (#7770819)
Engineers often fail to understand that sometimes the cheapest solution is to throw minimum wage workers at the problem.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Starting An Airline by mattmaroon on Monday May 19, 2014 @10:25PM (#7770936)
It's because they don't understand basic finance concepts. If they knew what time value of money and net present value meant, they'd realize that something that paid for itself in ten years is a bad investment.

Everyone in every discipline should be required to take Finance 101.

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Starting An Airline by sanxiyn on Monday May 19, 2014 @10:53PM (#7771012)
Something that pays for itself in ten years is a bad investment and how humanity progresses. Long term investment is essential and basic science requires it.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Starting An Airline by alttab on Monday May 19, 2014 @09:56PM (#7770873)
Unless its not the cheapest solution on a different time horizon.
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Re:Starting An Airline by Tortoise on Monday May 19, 2014 @09:28PM (#7770798)
The problem is that you can't actually fire anyone on board the plane. Those flight attendants aren't there to serve your drinks. They're there to guide/assist you "in the unlikely event of an emergency."

The pesky regulations say they need x attendants per passenger.

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Starting An Airline by maccard on Monday May 19, 2014 @10:42PM (#7770981)
Ryanair already have this down to a T. You don't actually interact with any ryanair staff from the time you book your flight until you're passing through the gate. At that point you meet the cabincrew/stewards for your flight, two at the door who check your boarding pass and glance casually at your passport, and you then walk across the runway to board the plane in no particular order. Everything is an extra,you're bombarded with ads for the duration of the flight (particularly annoying on a 45minute flight where they start at takeoff and keep going until you land). You also print your own boarding pass, and are normally located as far as humanly possible from the airport terminal, in an airport nowhere near the location advertised (London Stansted, Barcelona Reus, Paris Beauvais).

But I can fly to London return for 30 euro pretty much any time of the year in return for that.

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Starting An Airline by kator on Monday May 19, 2014 @09:39PM (#7770830)
It's called Ryan Air[1]

[1] http://www.ryanair.com/

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Starting An Airline by jonah on Monday May 19, 2014 @09:36PM (#7770826)
Budget airlines like Allegiant [1] streamline thing to save money.

* Very few ground staff - say 4 at a small-to-mid-sized destination. They do all tasks: Ticket agent, baggage handler, gate agent.

* No connecting flights - direct only.

* All the same type of equipment (MD-80s) to streamline maintenance.

etc.

[1]

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Starting An Airline by bherms on Monday May 19, 2014 @09:27PM (#7770796)
The planes practically (can) fly themselves these days now anyway. Remove the ticket people, checking bags, food/drinks on the plane, and build a nice, efficient website for booking... Then structure your routes on flexible demand. Almost like crowdbuying tickets... There are probably a low number of people (outside business travel) that need to be somewhere at an exact time. Operate the ticket buying process like Massdrop. Let the collective decide when a plane takes off.

There's a lot of tweaks that could change the airline industry, but certainly no easy task.

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Starting An Airline by rabino on Monday May 19, 2014 @09:35PM (#7770823)
With the exorbitant costs of maintenance and fuel, plus the prorated cost of the plane itself, I'm wondering how much impact those small-ish changes could have.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Starting An Airline by zachlipton on Monday May 19, 2014 @09:38PM (#7770829)
Outside business travel? Bahahhahaa. Airlines make most of their money on business travel.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Starting An Airline by btgeekboy on Monday May 19, 2014 @10:23PM (#7770929)
Much of this sounds like Spirit Airlines.
[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Starting An Airline by chimeracoder on Monday May 19, 2014 @09:44PM (#7770845)
It's unlikely ever to happen, but I wish someone would start an airline that only requires pre-2001 levels of security screening[0]. I'd be interested in seeing how having some competition on security policies would affect the larger market. Would people value the sense of security that the theatre gives them, or would they prefer the less invasive measures?

Unfortunately, AFAIK, every airport in the country is required either to use TSA screening or to use private security companies whose policies are set by the TSA[1], so this is unlikely ever to happen.

[0] With the exception of ensuring that cockpit doors are always closed and locked during flight - this was the one absolutely critical security improvement that came out of 9/11.

[1] I believe SFO is one airport that uses a private company.

[ Parent | on HN ]
Re:Starting An Airline by btgeekboy on Monday May 19, 2014 @10:28PM (#7770947)
The TSA screens operations running under 14 CFR 121; there's not much you can do about that other than fly under 14 CFR 135, which is for "Commuter and On-Demand Operations." (This is how companies like Surf Air get away with not having to have TSA screening.
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