Dude/Dudette, it IS ruining your health.

Start looking. You don't have to quit to start looking - and you might be pleasantly surprised at offers coming your way. Especially if you're in a high demand area like SF or NYC (or can reasonably commute there), but even if you are not.

> it IS ruining your health.

No it's not, he is. He is refusing to balance his work out to more healthy levels. He is pushing himself harder to be there. He is not looking for another job.

If he can't control himself and work less, he'll simply do it in another job if he moves on.

In the worst case, if he's established the precedent of working weekends and is now expected to do so, a fresh start could still be useful. Transitioning to another company might also help provide him with the clean mental slate necessary to trash this habit of over-working himself.

Also, there is the possibility that the company is somewhat at fault--his post is lacking details, and he may be under legitimate pressure to do extra work.

Lets not go down this road. This is like the guns don't kill people debate.

Maybe - but maybe mhurran is right - I've definitely been the guy that works weekends at the job where no one works weekends.

It's not healthy - and work life imbalance is usually driven by others, but sometimes not. And to fix it you need to figure out what the cause is.

Looking at yourself shouldn't take that long if your job is the problem, and if you are the problem well you should attack that. In my case working myself to the bone was not a healthy response to a bad breakup but admitting that took some time.

When did it become that you are not responsible for your own health? He is not a slave that has to jump when the whip is cracked.

I agree with the earlier post. We need to all be responsible for our own contribution levels. At the end of the day, each of us chooses how much work to put in, and a tendency to overdo it will follow us from one job to the next unless we admit we're directly, albeit unconsciously, enabling the imbalance.

Granted some workplaces will ask more than others, but it's absolutely a two-sided deal.

The human mind is a funny thing.

You're assuming that the individual isn't affected by social factors, and that he can effectively isolate himself from negative demands and expectations. But if research in social psychology has shown nothing else, it's that the individual is not separate from his social environment. Even when we know better, when we should be able to rationally extricate ourselves from a situation, we continue on in it for a myriad of reasons.

We see the warning signs, only to blindly rationalize them away so successfully that they disappear from conscious thought. I've been there, and I've suffered the consequences.

Take an external authority figure, in this case a boss who values a person's ability to lose themselves in their work in order to get things done, and sit back. Add in a culture of co-workers who celebrate the same. Maybe the employee wants to work their way up the ladder, or maybe they just want to get the satisfaction of positive feedback from those figures. Watch as these factors slowly influence the employee's sense of perception, and eventually through it, their behaviors and how they judge them. Eventually, you'll see a affective and cognitive responses as they integrate these changed beliefs into their self-identity. This is made all the easier by the presence of authority figures

You see this everywhere. Why do young investment bankers accept the idea that they need to work upwards of 80+ hours/week, and often, 100 or more? Worse, they not only accept it but they make it part of their core self-identity to be celebrated. Why do undergrads pull all-nighters and consider them a badge of honor? Or far more darkly, why do so many battered spouses stay with their abusive partners, justifying the abuse as something they somehow "deserve?" If someone tells you that you're dirt enough times, eventually even the strongest-willed of us will start to question it, and far too often, come to believe it.

Across all these examples and more, the same cognitive phenomena are at work. You think this is solely a matter of willpower. It's often not. Yes, he's pushing himself. But social factors are also pushing inward on him, making it easier to do so.

I'm not belaboring your end point. It's a good one, and the presence of outsiders willing to give such advice--get out, get somewhere where you can rebuild your sense of self and personal boundaries--can help empower people to act on it. But don't assume that it's as simple as turning off the screen, or that you're immune to these pressures. You're not. No one is.

Given enough time, even the strongest can and will be influenced by social factors. Often, to positive ends. But not always. Given enough of the bad, eventually, everyone breaks. Not at once. Never at once. But little by little, piece by piece, people will change without even realizing it. And once you're there, the mind's ability to rationalize and protect itself will help keep you there.

That's called having the job ruin your health. Let me tell you a little story to make sure you never do this stupid shit again!

When I first met my fiancee, perhaps a couple weeks after we met and a week or so after our first date, she got sick. At first we thought it was just a head cold. Then it seemed to be a bit of a flu. She is, of course, a workaholic Determinator of a woman, and kept working on her courses (we were in university) through the whole thing. Eventually she went to University Health Services and got diagnosed with mononucleosis.

A day later, she was passing out in the lab and having purple spots flash in front of her eyes. She finished her work, and then had her parents drive out to fetch her and take her to the family doctors. It turned out that she had bacterial meningitis from an impacted tooth, she had to be hospitalized for three weeks, couldn't come back to college for two months, and nearly died.

Why? Because for days on end, she tried to power through her illness, and of course because University Health Services didn't check for what she actually had.

Don't power through your work when seriously sick unless you want your family and friends praying for you to live.

The problem is that our society is so terrible about choosing leaders (in academia or business) that its only resolution is to understaff, to generate busywork, and to load people up with artificial stress until most of them crack. It's an idiotic war of attrition. Usually, the "brick wall" is a low-level mental illness (anxiety, depression) in a previously healthy person and it often goes away in a year or so. Sometimes, it doesn't. This is why those of us who have real neurological anxiety or mood disorders can never expect genuine accommodation. Our disease is the culling agent that, with enough stress, will also flare up in the normal and be attributed (God of the Gaps) to "personal weakness".

We have this fucked-up culture of "powering through" that malaise. When it's a hard biological issue (i.e. an infection or cancer or mental illness) it refuses to play by our rules. It's not going to go away by "downshifting" at work or when we get that reward for being the last one standing. It's imminently dangerous. But, in our culture of "power through it and get the prize", most people don't get the help they need until it's too late.

I would argue, though, that there's no value in this war of attrition. We have enough resources to give everyone a good life and autonomy over their work, and it's only getting better. Why do we set up these health-destroying tournaments of fools in the first place? If we need to pick leaders, it will happen naturally. If we don't, then why not have a looser arrangement where everyone has some autonomy?

This attrition game that we use to fill the corporate and academic upper ranks doesn't pick good leaders. The military has known this for a long time. There are 2% of people who don't have the stress-sensitivity of the other 98%. They can be placed in danger or have to kill others and they won't get PTSD, and they don't get the context-driven anxiety and depression disorders that most people get from overwork. They're neurologically insensitive. Not all of them are bad people (some are very good people, if neurologically indistinguishable from murderers, because morality won't show up on an MRI) but half of them are psychopaths. You want people from that 2% (at least, the good ones who have a sense of morality and conscience; but the bad ones are often directed toward things like running POW camps) doing elite and dangerous work (they often enjoy it) but not making general-level decisions that affect thousands.

> I would argue, though, that there's no value in this war of attrition. We have enough resources to give everyone a good life and autonomy over their work, and it's only getting better. Why do we set up these health-destroying tournaments of fools in the first place?

Didn't the tournament of fools get us to the place where we can feed everyone?

> If we need to pick leaders, it will happen naturally. If we don't, then why not have a looser arrangement where everyone has some autonomy?

I am reminded of the tyranny of structureless.

> some are very good people, if neurologically indistinguishable from murderers, because morality won't show up on an MRI

This is implying a large amount of certainty about neuroscience knowledge that we simply do not have.

> We have this fucked-up culture of "powering through" that malaise. When it's a hard biological issue (i.e. an infection or cancer or mental illness) it refuses to play by our rules. It's not going to go away by "downshifting" at work or when we get that reward for being the last one standing. It's imminently dangerous. But, in our culture of "power through it and get the prize", most people don't get the help they need until it's too late.

I can agree here: our culture does a terrible job of helping people become emotionally adjusted individuals. I do really hate the phrase "hard biological issue" when used to describe mental illness though. It seems so defeatist, like telling someone they will never be a pro athlete or something. Even if it is true, my reaction will be the same: to continue trying.

What's the motivation for keeping them away from making general-level decisions?

Been there, done that, never ever doing it again. It's not worth it.

My advise: leave. You're a developer, you've got a world of options before you. You have no reason to work in that environment.

I, too, had to leave college for financial and family health reasons. It always left a question in my head as to whether I was as good as those at the job with a degree. I, too, worked my way up redacted, since personal info was removed by parent poster, my whole rise driven by feelings of inadequacy. Despite the ever increasing disfunction at the job, I stayed way too long, fearing I was not good enough to find another job.

You know what? I got over the fear of change and quit (you don't have to, one can always job hunt while still working). A year later, rested and in a better place, I started the next phase of my career where my experience was acknowledged and I gained a much better sense of my worth. I now work with great people, at a job I love, doing interesting work every single day.

There is better to be had out there, you just may not see it until you are on the other side. Take the chance, if you value your health and life.

I had vertigo for about a month a few months ago. Another friend (in Australia) mentioned he had it as well when I tweeted about it. It can be caused by a virus. Your immune system gets whacked when you don't rest properly, so it's possible you had the same thing that was going around.

Try ditching the phone/computer after 8PM and just relax and enjoy life. There will always be more work to do in the morning.

Working through a flu (a real flu, not a cold) is not a good idea. I've been around Wall Street and startups for a long-ass time, so I know people who've developed permanent anxiety/panic disorders from that. (March is a deadly month. You have winter's flus and viruses combining with spring's mental health risks.) Flu is usually mild, but it is a potentially life-threatening condition, i.e. not to be fucked around with.

You need to change jobs and get one that won't have you working unreasonable hours. Any time other than now is too late.

I find that if I try to work through a flu, I'll be sick for a week or two. If I just go home and stay in bed, I get over it in a few days.

In the long run, it's much more productive to take care of yourself before your work. No matter how productive you think you are being while sick, the quality of your work is most likely suffering.

Some companies have this horrible "PTO" pogrom (typo intentional) in which sick days and vacation days are pooled. It wouldn't be so bad if there were a sizable pool (say, 30 days) but usually, it's an excuse to present the company as having ample vacation (15-20 days) while actually deducting sick days from it. It means that a week-long illness will cut into your vacation.

Then you have this arrangement where people "work from home" (WFH) while actually ill, just to avoid losing a PTO day. Then you need a manager who understands the difference between sick WFH (don't hit him up, he might read emails and type out a few replies and that's it) and real WFH (you can actually expect that person to be working)-- and who, in addition, cares about that distinction.

All of that said, I'd much rather people work poorly from home with awkward expectations than come into the office and infect the rest of us! Realistic expectations or real sick days are better still, of course.

As a US worker, I greatly prefer pooled vacation days. The companies that I have worked for that don't have this have _at most_ 15 days of paid vacation (usually either 10 or 12 until I had a few years of work there and had it increased). They had separate sick time, but only ~5 days of it.

The pooled vacations one have 16-20 with sick bundled in. It's about the same if you are sick for more than 5 days (you'd lose either way). If you are sick for less than 5 days, pooled is clearly better.

> ample vacation (15-20 days)

15-20 days is hardly "ample" vacation time.

I agree but, by US standards, it's generous.

We are not a first world country anymore.

It is absolutely physically impossible to work through a flu, at least for me.

The flu is one of the most debilitating disease I've ever had. I literally can't move, much less drive myself to work.

You positive you had flu?

Spring has mental health risks? what causes that?

I think it's less common elsewhere, but so-called "March Madness" is a HUGE problem in the US- leading to countless hours of lost productivity.

I could find absolutely no evidence of an uptake of mental illness in March on either Google or Google Scholar. The absolutely only thing I can find is this: http://www.healthyplace.com/blogs/parentingchildwithmentalil... which speaks of changing seasons affecting patients with Seasonal affective disorder, well duh.

Also March Madness doesn't mean what you think it means.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_Madness

The main part of the breeding season of the European hare.

Events surrounding the single-elimination Division I college basketball tournaments performed each spring in the United States. The main tournaments involved are the NCAA Men's Division I Basketball Championship and the NCAA Women's Division I Basketball Championship. The tournaments' nickname, "March Madness", originated in the 20th century and was later adopted by the media.

NCAA Basketball series (formerly March Madness series), an EA Sports college basketball video game series.

Mega March Madness, a defunct pay-per-view television package covering the college basketball tournament.

Illinois High School Boys Basketball Championship, a single elimination high school basketball tournament.

The month of the government of Canada's fiscal year end (March 31), when departments traditionally rush to spend the remainder of their budgets in order that they not experience budget reductions the next year. This usage was apparently the origin of the uses for basketball.[1]

I think you may be conflating a sports event (basketball brackets) with mental health ... not necessarily unrelated, but...

that's the joke

Sorry, I don't usually joke about mental health issues.

well you did sort of just comically imply that basketball fanatics have a mental illness

You are dying.