Given that this guy's key message seems to be about the importance of actually using the language (over taking classes or reading textbooks) I'm not sure that you actually disagree with him.
Edit: just to make it clear, this is purely out of linguistic curiosity
When unknown person approach a German with broken/half-broken/non-perfect German skills, that German has immidiate prejudice about your social status and education level. If your friend is from Brasil, I guess skin colour also plays a role here. Happened to me numerous times. You will get much better treatment speaking English, since that level the playing fields and then they consider you as an equal. Also happened to me numerous times.
So yes, the only way to actually speak German in Germany and not be intimidated is to speak it with people that you already knows and you can consider friends.
Taxi drivers were an exception, they did not seem to have strong English skills. As a result, the most enjoyable German conversation I ever had was with an elderly taxi driver as we stumbled through our knowledge of each other's language.
To show off their English skills. Although this can even happen when their English is worse than your German. Especially Germans are really proud to be "international" even though it's not always justified.
Or they don't want you to stagger about in a language you don't know very well. So some want to be polite and spare you the trouble to speak it. Of course that doesn't help you but you should then insist and say something about "learning this beautiful language" and then usually they can't deny you this.
In IT it's quite custom that anybody speaks English when somebody is around that doesn't speak German as you are expected to know the language well enough. After all in IT, you need English every day. For Zurich, which has a great number of foreigners, this applies as well.
For Switzerland in general, remember that the Swiss dialect is quite different from Standard German and there are many Swiss who are not that comfortable speaking Standard German so switching to English is an option when they actually don't want you to notice how bad their German is.
Same thing happened to me all the time in Japan (to be fair, my Japanese is essentially non-existent except for a handful of phrases) and France (significantly more proficient, but still not a proficient speaker). The Japanese in particular seemed put off by butchering their language.
One thing I have discovered is there are fun ways to learn a new language even if you are on your own. I am learning french and I love watching movies so every now I then I watch a french movie first with subtitles and then without. Most of the times I miss the words but I am getting familiar with sounds and every time I pick up french for dummies I get more confident.
But you are right. One must spend time with the language one is learning.
I can read multiple of dead languages BUT I can never speak any other language but English. I can read (non-modern) Hebrew, Classical/Konie Greek, Aramaic, Latin and somewhat (not dead) German. Thank you Theology Studies the Nerds great subject to learning language and history.
I now work with 250 students in Head Start (3-5 years old) and about 20% speak mainly Spanish and I can speak to any 5 or 6 year old in Spanish fairly well, but adults I sound like a 5 year old. I try to talk with the staff where 50% speak fluent Spanish and well they always go back to English and I never progress. :(
People can very obviously tell that the second language is not my native tongue. This is after 30 years of using it.
It comes down to how much of your day is spent conversing in a language, I'd guess that if it's less than 20% it's a dead giveaway. Speaking to adults is completely different than speaking to children.
The Pareto principle he cites is actually deceiving. Yes learning 20% of the vocab gives you 80% of the commonly used words. Now try and go to 90%. If I remember you have to double effort. So e.g. if 80% is 1500 words, 90% is 3000, 95% is 6000, 97% is 12000, etc. It's diminishing returns.
The problem is to have adults conversations all the time you probably need a vocabulary of around 6000 words, depending on the context of the conversation.
Ever hear what a foreigner sounds like when they speak broken English or English with a strong accent? That's exactly what you sound like when you're talking to someone else in their language. Like some complete retard. Mess up one single thing or say something unidiomatic and the show's over. If they feel their English is better they'll switch immediately, but just keep going and hopefully they'll switch back.
I think a cool idea would be some kind of RPG or MMORGP where you are forced to speak the language you are learning to accomplish tasks in the game.
Me: "slt, ksk c'est 'putain de merde' svp?"
Pierre: "In English that means 'airstrike'"
TLM: "MDR"
... or something along those lines.
I'd appreciate it if a few people could download it and provide feedback. The store is getting quite crowded so I'm looking for ideas to find a niche. I've got versions for several other languages, which I outsourced the translations. At this point, I'm not sure where to make further investment.
I do most of my studying on my commutes which are all on the subways.
You = personal experience of one.
Him = personal experience of one + research + more research + claims he's looked for counter studies
Benny 1 - Sean 0
Here it is the case: My Chinese wife is a perfect French speaker but she still can't hear or pronounce the difference between "gato" and "cado". I work in Chinese, in a 100% immersion, and tones are still not natural to me. And our bi-cultural kid, at 3, has better tones than me, and has no problem with d and t, or g and k.
I won't look hard for papers but I would be surprised if none has ever "proven" that babies hear and execute the full palette of sounds, and learning a language specializes (by narrowing) this skill, removing parts not used in the context to differenciate meanings.
Babies and pre-pubescent children do indeed have a distinct advantage when it comes to learning sounds, tones, and pronunciation for a language [1][2]. It's also been observed that children are more likely to sound native (in language 2) if they move to another country and learn that second language prior to puberty (see again, Nagle [2]). So, gbog, if your child speaks/hears French, Chinese, and English regularly before hitting puberty, he/she will likely sound native in all three languages. But this advantage doesn't nullify the claim that adult learners can still become fluent in a foreign language. It just means that adult learners might never sound exactly like a native speaker, even though motivated learners can achieve near-native pronunciation in their target language [3].
[1] Babies are born with the ability to hear/distinguish between the sounds of all world languages, but this ability starts to diminish around the age of 10 months (pp 39-40, The Bilingual Edge, King and Mackey, http://www.amazon.com/The-Bilingual-Edge-Second-Language/dp/...).
[2] "Critical period research clearly demonstrates that the probability of a near-native L2 phonology rapidly diminishes as we age", Charles Nagle, "A Reexamination of Ultimate Attainment in L2 Phonology: Length of Immersion, Motivation, and Phonological Short-Term Memory", http://www.lingref.com/cpp/slrf/2011/paper2913.pdf
[3] "The results of this study highlight the fact that learners appear to be able to achieve near-native pronunciation without significant formal instruction in pronunciation which perhaps also evidences the role of implicit learning in L2 phonology...", Nagle, http://www.lingref.com/cpp/slrf/2011/paper2913.pdf
Don't be willing to make an argument against all science while trying to win one discussion. Just give your anecdote and let people take it as they will.
Have a look at (Harvard linguist) Steven Pinker's book The Language Instinct. It gives a great overview. Or if a book on linguistics isn't your thing, then read the recent studies on critical period hypothesis for SLA, such as Mayberry and Lock, 2003.
Compare that with the Asian languages, and I know more people that claim to have picked up substantial bits of Japanese through importing videogames than is remotely reasonable, and have had a sort of light experience of it myself. The very alienness of it prevents attempts to link it back to your previous context, when constantly trying to do so is, in my experience, a perpetual tarpit.
The big irritant is his absurd claims about adult learning capabilities. When I was in my teens, I learned Cantonese as a native English speaker. In my 40s, I learned Italian. Cantonese -- an extremely difficult language for English speakers -- was far easier to learn.
In truth I think there is one overriding rule to successfully learning a foreign language. No matter how many classes you take or Rosetta Stone CDs you buy, will never really learn a language unless you are forced to speak it ALL THE TIME. If you want to learn German, move to Germany.
When foreign PhD students come to the US, I tell them that if they want to be effective researchers in computer science, they must know English well. And step one for doing that, as PhD students in the US, is to get roommates who do not speak their native language.