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Re:OpenBSD will shut down if we do not have the funding to k... by HeyLaughingBoy on Thursday January 16, 2014 @12:18PM (#7070765)
Seriously? What's not to understand? He said they had reasons that prevent them from moving and didn't want to discuss it further. Why push it?

Isn't he in a better position to decide what's unacceptable than you are?

Re:OpenBSD will shut down if we do not have the funding to k... by gtaylor on Thursday January 16, 2014 @12:21PM (#7070791)
If he's asking for money from me, I would like to know why it's not an option. The root of the issue being raised is power/space, so I'd definitely want to know why I'm forking up for something the project could potentially get for free.

It's not a big deal, and I don't expect him to go into detail. He just won't get a cent from me without elaborating, and that's OK. I'm not mad, and I understand he has mis-givings. I just don't think that answer is acceptable enough for me to donate, but that's my subjective opinion (and not everyone else's).

Re:OpenBSD will shut down if we do not have the funding to k... by astrodust on Thursday January 16, 2014 @12:37PM (#7070938)
If you're asking for help and you have constraints, you better qualify those constraints in a way that builds confidence.

The more transparency you have in your discussion, the more supportive people will be.

Re:OpenBSD will shut down if we do not have the funding to k... by justin66 on Thursday January 16, 2014 @01:10PM (#7071266)
> The more transparency you have in your discussion, the more supportive people will be.

I think that's total, obvious nonsense and if you need to be convinced, here's an exercise: consider how much money the average nonprofit would raise if people knew where all that money went.

Re:OpenBSD will shut down if we do not have the funding to k... by wpietri on Thursday January 16, 2014 @02:35PM (#7071947)
You mean like publishing accounts? Maybe even including salaries for the highly paid people?

Because every US nonprofit is required by law to do that. You can browse it all on line: http://foundationcenter.org/findfunders/990finder/

Re:OpenBSD will shut down if we do not have the funding to k... by justin66 on Thursday January 16, 2014 @02:54PM (#7072079)
That is a nice tool, thanks. Someone else posted something similar recently and it wanted to charge $250 for membership or something like that.

The web is bringing a lot of good transparency to nonprofits but there's still a lot of repugnant wastefulness and avarice that often isn't captured well by a 990 form. (publishing salaries is pretty huge, though)

I stand by my point that the more a person learns about the average charity the less they're going to want to donate... transparency doesn't magically lead to supportiveness. And wanting a project to account for every watt of electricity is just completely silly.

edit: transparency is a way for better charities to look good relative to poor ones, yes, but all things being equal, it's a negative for fundraising: as with business and government, a lot of what goes on in ANY organization is ugly to look at and is bound to turn some people off. (none of that is an argument against transparency itself, let's just not kid ourselves about its usefulness for raising money)

Re:OpenBSD will shut down if we do not have the funding to k... by astrodust on Thursday January 16, 2014 @03:14PM (#7072210)
The more transparency there is, the better the legitimate charities look and the less likely people are to throw money at what turn out to be obvious scams.

Transparency is critical.

Re:OpenBSD will shut down if we do not have the funding to k... by wpietri on Friday January 17, 2014 @11:23AM (#7076570)
I get your point, but I think you're generally wrong. My criterion around that for donating is not, "Is this place perfect?" but "Is this place materially more screwed up than any other organization?"

I'm sure there are some people with unrealistic standards that would not donate at all. And I'm sure that there are plenty of organizations that take advantage of a lack of transparency to do dubious things. But the solution to that is more transparency. And more analysis of the transparent information, so that people can easily contextualize it.

Re:OpenBSD will shut down if we do not have the funding to k... by cgh on Thursday January 16, 2014 @06:56PM (#7073333)
OpenBSD is developed and released in Canada. I'm not sure if they are a US non-profit or not so maybe these laws don't apply.
Re:OpenBSD will shut down if we do not have the funding to k... by noselasd on Thursday January 16, 2014 @03:01PM (#7072125)
Which is the point exactly. People DO have confidence in the nonprofits they donate to. It might not be warranted at all, but the nonprofit has actively built confidence for their audience.
Re:OpenBSD will shut down if we do not have the funding to k... by cdash on Thursday January 16, 2014 @02:19PM (#7071838)
The average nonprofit isn't worthy of the money they get so unless you are trying to say OpenBSD is not worthy of the money and the only way they can get it is to hide the details then I don't get what your point is.
Re:OpenBSD will shut down if we do not have the funding to k... by simias on Thursday January 16, 2014 @12:20PM (#7070783)
Probably, but then again if he wants my money he better explain why he needs it and how he's going to spend it, doesn't he?

That being said since OpenBSD is all about security maybe that's the reason they don't want to move the servers to some place where they won't be able to monitor physical access to the machines. That's pure speculation though.

Re:OpenBSD will shut down if we do not have the funding to k... by orbitur on Thursday January 16, 2014 @12:23PM (#7070805)
If I'm donating I would like to know exactly where the money is going, and what options have already been explored. OpenBSD should have referenced, full documentation about these things if they want to maximize donations.

Apparently, there isn't very much documentation/open accounting, and they aren't willing to discuss options to reduce the bill. That doesn't inspire confidence.

Re:OpenBSD will shut down if we do not have the funding to k... by gtaylor on Thursday January 16, 2014 @12:27PM (#7070839)
> Apparently, there isn't very much documentation/open accounting, and they aren't willing to discuss options to reduce the bill. That doesn't inspire confidence.

It is a lot of work for a small team to itemize and publish every expense, but some rough breakdown of monthly expenses that my donation would be going towards would really help.

Re:OpenBSD will shut down if we do not have the funding to k... by cdcarter on Thursday January 16, 2014 @07:11PM (#7073397)
If their books are clean, this is actually pretty easy. Just pulling an annual operating budget should be much easier, if they have good financial practices and controls in place.
Re:OpenBSD will shut down if we do not have the funding to k... by jff on Thursday January 16, 2014 @06:00PM (#7073099)
If they know they need $20k, they must have arrived at that number somehow. Publishing that estimation would be a good start.
Re:OpenBSD will shut down if we do not have the funding to k... by hhw on Thursday January 16, 2014 @12:30PM (#7070868)
They're not looking for a lot of smaller donators in this specific instance (although I'm sure it's appreciated), but rather one large Canadian company to foot the bill and on that company's books for accounting purposes.
Re:OpenBSD will shut down if we do not have the funding to k... by gabeguz on Thursday January 16, 2014 @03:34PM (#7072343)
And suppose OpenBSD wanted to know exactly wtf you were planning on doing with OpenSSH after you downloaded it... what servers are you planning to connect to, what keys are you planning on using? You know, if you're going to use OpenSSH they want to know exactly what for. Just leaching off the project doesn't inspire confidence.

OpenBSD releases quality software that all of us use EVERY SINGLE DAY as far as I'm concerned Theo can take the money and buy a yacht with it as long as they keep doing what they are doing.

Re:OpenBSD will shut down if we do not have the funding to k... by rantanplan on Thursday January 16, 2014 @06:58PM (#7073344)
Yes he can(and probably should) buy a yacht. What you're missing though is that by not being transparent they miss out on a lot more contributors. So it's not a super smart move.

Also keep in mind that a lot of contributors might not use OpenBSD, yet they might be interested in offering some small amount if they believe it's for a good cause and they know where that money is going.

Re:OpenBSD will shut down if we do not have the funding to k... by jessaustin on Thursday January 16, 2014 @05:52PM (#7073066)
...there isn't very much documentation/open accounting...

So your feeling is similar to that toward a homeless dude? You'll give him a sandwich but not cash? If they're saying power is the shortfall, maybe we just need to buy them some solar panels or wind generators or something.

Re:OpenBSD will shut down if we do not have the funding to k... by justincormack on Thursday January 16, 2014 @01:00PM (#7071179)
These costs are not much versus the costs of hiring developers.
Re:OpenBSD will shut down if we do not have the funding to k... by jethro_tell on Thursday January 16, 2014 @03:38PM (#7072363)
Not sure how much they are hiring developers. They said the number they need annually is more inline with $150,000. I'm not sure if that's in addition to current donations or total but you wouldn't be hiring many devs with $150k - $20k for power- wherever Theo needs.