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Re:Everyone can now track down noisy tabs by junto on Tuesday January 14, 2014 @03:27PM (#7059472)
As a parent I was more interested in the "supervised users" feature to monitor your children's internet usage. Parents desperately need something simple to help them make sure that their children are safe on the internet.

Most solutions are far too technical for most parents to understand and their children are more technically aware than they are, even at a young age.

It is of course important that parents can educate their children about the dangers of the internet, but such a feature is like having stabilisers on a bike. Once your children show you that they can be trusted the you can take the supervision off and give them the privacy they they too deserve.

I think Google is hitting a sweet spot if they can get that feature right.

http://chrome.blogspot.de/2013/10/a-beta-preview-supervised-...

Re:Everyone can now track down noisy tabs by jack-r-abbit on Tuesday January 14, 2014 @03:54PM (#7059644)
Same here. I didn't realize tabs playing music was such a rampant problem that needed to be addressed. The supervised users feature has a lot of appeal to me as well. My kids' computer (Mac Mini) has Chrome set as the default browser. I'll need to look into this more closely.
Re:Everyone can now track down noisy tabs by 27182818284 on Tuesday January 14, 2014 @04:37PM (#7059923)
>Same here. I didn't realize tabs playing music was such a rampant problem

It is actually a problem I've wanted a fix for since, I don't know, maybe Phoenix .9 or whatever first introduced me to tabbed browsing in the world. this is a huge feature. I suspect the other browsers will try to follow too, if they aren't already in their dev/bleedingedge repos.

Re:Everyone can now track down noisy tabs by jack-r-abbit on Tuesday January 14, 2014 @04:43PM (#7059963)
I'm curious how many times a day you run into an issue of having a tab play sounds and you can't figure out which one it is.
Re:Everyone can now track down noisy tabs by roel_v on Tuesday January 14, 2014 @05:25PM (#7060239)
To me it doesn't happen often, but when it does, it's a huge annoyance. Basically it stops you dead in your tracks of whatever you were doing and sends you on a frantic hunt for what tab is causing it. The usefulness of a feature that solves problem is (n times p happens * annoyance of p) - at least that's how I prioritize features. So yeah - I've searched several times a year for a plugin that does this, for at least 5 years back.
Re:Everyone can now track down noisy tabs by montag on Tuesday January 14, 2014 @05:23PM (#7060226)
This is a poor way to assess the value of a feature. How many times a day do you use your windshield wipers?
Re:Everyone can now track down noisy tabs by jack-r-abbit on Tuesday January 14, 2014 @06:58PM (#7060692)
I wasn't using it to asses the value of the feature in general. I was just curious how often that user ran into the problem that makes it a problem they have been trying to find a fix for since the beginning of tabbed browsing. A tiny annoyance that happens 10 times a day, everyday? A huge annoyance that has happened only twice... but just got him fired from his job? This person made it sound pretty serious to them so I was trying to get a better understanding of what they thought was serious. The issue is so not serious to me that it is not even an issue. Not wanting to sit with just a sample of 1, I thought I'd try to get additional info.

But since you asked... there have been many times when I used my wipers thousands of times each day for several days on end. But we're experiencing a bit of a drought right now so I've not used them in a couple months.

Re:Everyone can now track down noisy tabs by DanBC on Tuesday January 14, 2014 @07:08PM (#7060747)
Some people on HN open very many tabs. Like, over one hundred open tabs. So I guess those people find it hard to find the noisy tab.

Also, some things are kind of frustrating, but not frustrating enough to bother spending ages fixing it.

Quite often something will happen and I'll think "there must be a fix. I just don't know the OS enough yet" - and sometimes there is a really easy fix and sometimes there is an ugly 3rd party kludge. While the problem is kind of annoying having a fix just fixes the problem, while searching for a fix teaches me more. (Am I making any sense? Its about the journey not the destination).

Re:Everyone can now track down noisy tabs by jack-r-abbit on Tuesday January 14, 2014 @07:16PM (#7060779)
> Some people on HN open very many tabs. Like, over one hundred open tabs.

I can't even imagine how that is useful. I guess it is to them or they wouldn't do it.

Re:Everyone can now track down noisy tabs by nl on Tuesday January 14, 2014 @08:48PM (#7061162)
I have 25 tabs open at the moment (and I've only had this browser open for 3 hours).

I tend to "open in new tab" and queue things for reading.

Because I tend to open lots of new tabs within a short period, it makes identifying the one that is playing sounds very hard. The worst is the "delayed video player" scenario, especially if it is below the fold. It's incredibly annoying and embarrassing to be desperately trying to find where the noise is coming from if it happens in a boring meeting.

Re:Everyone can now track down noisy tabs by moocowduckquack on Tuesday January 14, 2014 @07:42PM (#7060894)
I can get to 50 tabs pretty quickly when researching a problem. Sometimes I'll then trim them and save them as sets to open later. Is really useful for cross referencing and noun hunting.
Re:Everyone can now track down noisy tabs by tostitos1979 on Tuesday January 14, 2014 @09:47PM (#7061349)
What do you use to save them?
Re:Everyone can now track down noisy tabs by moocowduckquack on Wednesday January 15, 2014 @01:55PM (#7065303)
The browser.

On firefox is just Bookmarks > Bookmark All Tabs

Re:Everyone can now track down noisy tabs by cpayne on Tuesday January 14, 2014 @07:21PM (#7060800)
My wife can literally have 30 tabs open at once. It doesn't make sense to me...
Re:Everyone can now track down noisy tabs by wutbrodo on Wednesday January 15, 2014 @11:45AM (#7064317)
I've probably got about 60 open across two sessions right now, and this is typical or lower. It's as simple as having a queue of things to get to, plus groups of tabs represented in-progress research on some topic. It's especially useful given tab-sync across devices. It's not a workflow for everyone, but if the benefit of having easy access outweighs the intangible mental cost of a zillion tabs, it can work very well.
Re:Everyone can now track down noisy tabs by watwut on Tuesday January 14, 2014 @05:33PM (#7060275)
I like to open multiple youtube tabs at the same time and then watch videos one by one. Most of them are in flash and I have flash block, so they do not play until I actually click on them.

Some youtube videos are not blocked by flashblock and it is highly annoying when two videos play at the same time.

Some new site use autoplay videos too, and again, I like to open multiple tabs and then close them at the same time. Of course I can figure out which tab is causing it, but it is annoying having to do it. With this feature, I can just kill it.

Re:Everyone can now track down noisy tabs by SiVal on Wednesday January 15, 2014 @04:07AM (#7062342)
It happened to me once today with a streaming radio station. Strangely, I had hit the back button, so there was no player visible on the page, yet it began playing after a minute or two of dead air. I couldn't find it for a while (there were no players visible on any of the tabs I had recently opened), and I ended up having to click the tab, then click the "forward" button to go to a page I didn't seem to be on, then click the "pause" button on the player. I was lucky I figured it out, because I have a lot of tabs open. If I'd had an icon on the tab, I would have just closed the tab.

And yesterday, it happened on a news page. The page autoplayed a video, which always bugged me. I looked around the page, found the annoying little video, and stopped it. About twenty minutes later, my laptop suddenly started talking. It took a minute or so to figure out that the page that had autoplayed earlier had a 20 minute refresh cycle, and each refresh restarts the autoplay. Once I identified the tab, I closed it.

So I'd like to see 1) an easier way to identify where the sound is coming from (such as these tab icons) and 2) a "don't autoplay" preference.

Re:Everyone can now track down noisy tabs by 27182818284 on Tuesday January 14, 2014 @06:38PM (#7060587)
I ran into it yesterday. Not even kidding. I had maybe 12 tabs open and one tab started making a pay-attention-to-me notification sound that I didn't recognize, so I had to go through all the tabs looking for what wanted my attention.
Re:Everyone can now track down noisy tabs by ketralnis on Tuesday January 14, 2014 @06:49PM (#7060653)
I have this problem about once a day. It's usually a flash advert or other such nonsense.
Re:Everyone can now track down noisy tabs by pavel_lishin on Tuesday January 14, 2014 @09:56PM (#7061380)
Flashblock and Adblock are useful for preventing this.

Unfortunately, I don't know how to stop HTML5 videos from auto-playing.

Re:Everyone can now track down noisy tabs by mbrubeck on Wednesday January 15, 2014 @12:11AM (#7061774)
In Firefox, the "media.autoplay.enabled" pref can be used to disable the "autoplay" attribute for the <video> element. (But I think it may still be possible for pages to auto-start videos using JavaScript.)
Re:Everyone can now track down noisy tabs by dredmorbius on Wednesday January 15, 2014 @03:04AM (#7062190)
Fortunately, with Adblock Plus and FlashBlock, it's fairly rare.

The most common culprit lately has been YouTube with HTML5 supported videos and autoplay, which I fucking despise. My immediate reaction is to close tabs.

My MO with browsing generally is to queue material up for review later. Crap that demands my attention usually gets it by way of a fist.

Any other domain which commits the same or similar crimes either gets the offending page element removed via Stylebot, or AdBlock's element blocker, or with an /etc/hosts file 0.0.0.0 entry. Life's too fucking short for that shit.

Re:Everyone can now track down noisy tabs by jaredsohn on Tuesday January 14, 2014 @06:00PM (#7060411)
Another use case is that if you start up a music player, a video, or click on an embedded video on Facebook, and then tab away from it. If you didn't pin it, it can be hard to find it again.
Re:Everyone can now track down noisy tabs by GeneralMayhem on Tuesday January 14, 2014 @09:00PM (#7061205)
It happens to me fairly regularly browsing Reddit because I'll open a bunch of things at once and then read them as I tab through.
Re:Everyone can now track down noisy tabs by anatoly on Tuesday January 14, 2014 @06:00PM (#7060412)
Maybe 3-4 times a day.
Re:Everyone can now track down noisy tabs by sentenza on Tuesday January 14, 2014 @04:19PM (#7059807)
Initially, I also wondered how many people have the noise problem. So far, the only way I managed to maneuver myself into that situation in Firefox is by having a few hundred tabs open (enough to make FF become sluggish and unresponsive) and then clicking around too much in an unresponsive interval. In that situation, I'd end up with some tabs, unknown to me, that I had accidentally clicked, which then start playing youtube videos.

There might, however, be more exposure to this problem for people who don't use adblockplus and noscript. I'm just not sure how. You'd open a bunch of tabs and then a few seconds later one of them would start blabbing?

Re:Everyone can now track down noisy tabs by djur on Tuesday January 14, 2014 @04:33PM (#7059890)
It's almost entirely due to ads, and this exact problem drove me to using adblock after years of avoiding it. Sometimes it just happens in the background at random, and sometimes it happens when loading bookmark groups.

It's not really a sufficient solution for me. I'd prefer to explicitly allow tabs to play sound. I believe Firefox experimented with that approach and found users didn't like it, though.

Re:Everyone can now track down noisy tabs by simcop2387 on Tuesday January 14, 2014 @04:34PM (#7059897)
There's been a number of ads and things on pages like cnn.com that'll start playing something to make noise, while being below the fold just so you'll have to go looking for it to stop it. I've seen it go in and out in cycles depending on the page and what you view.
Re:Everyone can now track down noisy tabs by jack-r-abbit on Tuesday January 14, 2014 @04:51PM (#7060015)
I guess I just don't use my browser the same way. I don't typically have more than 15-20 tabs open but I very rarely have a tab open that I'm unaware of. I must also manage to avoid all the annoying sites that use ads that play automatically. I don't use adblock or noscript and I think I can count on one hand the number of times I've had an ad play on its own. And it was always pretty easy to spot and rectify.

I wonder how many tabs you can open before the tabs become too narrow and this new speaker icon goes away. Or maybe it would take the place of the favicon on a really narrow tab.

Re:Everyone can now track down noisy tabs by jaredsohn on Tuesday January 14, 2014 @05:37PM (#7060294)
>I wonder how many tabs you can open before the tabs become too narrow and this new speaker icon goes away. Or maybe it would take the place of the favicon on a really narrow tab.

I just experimented with the beta and found that as the tabs narrow, it over time does change prioritization between the favicon, title, and audio indicator. On my 15" Mac Book Pro, once I hit about 40 tabs in one window I can no longer see the audio indicators.

I think Chrome will need to show the user an overview of audio indicators (similar to what I attempted to do in my MuteTab Chrome extension.) You can get some information at chrome://media-internals but 1) that isn't user facing and 2) it doesn't let you perform commands. I would have to guess the reason this hasn't happened is because Chrome works really hard to provide users with a minimal interface; perhaps they could provide an audio API and let people who care about this install an extension?

Re:Everyone can now track down noisy tabs by spoiler on Tuesday January 14, 2014 @05:23PM (#7060224)
The thing that springs to mind relating relating to the music problem is: tumblr blogs. I've been a few times in a situation that I opened a tumblr blog (fandom blog) to read some news about a TV show, just to forget about the tab later. It sometimes takes a few minutes for the files to download (not sure why either, maybe there is an artificial delay added) and they start playing randomly, and then you're left wondering what the hell is happening. Granted, it happened only once or twice.
Re:Everyone can now track down noisy tabs by imperialWicket on Tuesday January 14, 2014 @05:59PM (#7060404)
Supervised users are definitely awesome for kids, but I'm also planning to try it out as a replacement for my current /etc/hosts hack for keeping away from time-sucking sites.
Re:Everyone can now track down noisy tabs by avighnay on Tuesday January 14, 2014 @04:06PM (#7059739)
Echoes with all parents for sure
Re:Everyone can now track down noisy tabs by CamperBob2 on Tuesday January 14, 2014 @05:14PM (#7060171)
Not all. As a kid, I was taught that information wasn't dangerous.
Re:Everyone can now track down noisy tabs by PhasmaFelis on Tuesday January 14, 2014 @10:00PM (#7061395)
There's shit I got into as a kid--horror movies, torture accounts--that gave me nightmares for weeks. My parents did their best to guide me away from stuff like that until I was older, and they were right to do so--I had enough trouble sleeping as it was. When they failed, they helped me talk about it and deal with it.

Your shallow sanctimony excludes a gigantic middle between "let your kids do whatever they want" and "keep your kids in a padded room lined with Bible verses."

Re:Everyone can now track down noisy tabs by superuser2 on Wednesday January 15, 2014 @01:29AM (#7061963)
>There's shit I got into as a kid--horror movies, torture accounts--that gave me nightmares for weeks

So what?

"Kid does something, figures out it was a bad idea" isn't a tragedy. Definitely doesn't rise to the level of justifying censorship. It's being a kid. It's learning.

Seriously, human beings are going to choose (partially) negative experiences sometimes and you should let them. It's part of being a person. Use of (physical|emotional|technological) force to prevent this is both disturbing and ultimately futile.

Warnings are one thing, but you still have the right to ignore them and find out for yourself why they were given.

Re:Everyone can now track down noisy tabs by PhasmaFelis on Wednesday January 15, 2014 @12:02PM (#7064431)
> Seriously, human beings are going to choose (partially) negative experiences sometimes and you should let them. It's part of being a person. Use of (physical|emotional|technological) force to prevent this is both disturbing and ultimately futile.

O.o

Have you, like, seen children? My roommate's one-year-old regularly chooses to throw himself headfirst off the couch. She uses physical force to prevent him. Disturbing and futile, apparently!

Or, if we assume an exception for physical injury, I would certainly have chosen to spend my childhood indoors playing video games if my parents hadn't used emotional force to get me to go to school. I suppose you can try to derail onto the failings of public education if you like, but I wasn't interested in alternative education either; I just wanted to play video games, which would probably have resulted in me still living at home at 35 instead of having a degree and a satisfying, well-paying job. Clearly they should have just "warned" me that I was going to ruin my entire life, then stood aside and let me learn, eh?

Re:Everyone can now track down noisy tabs by jack-r-abbit on Tuesday January 14, 2014 @07:54PM (#7060943)
As a parent, I have learned that not every mind at every age is equipped to process every bit of information out there without some guidance. Misinformation can be dangerous. Information out of context can be dangerous. Information in ill-prepared hands can be dangerous. The word is mightier than the sword - Ahiqar

The feature is called "supervised users" not "locked in a tower users". So information can flow however the supervisor wishes. It could be simply a "monitor & discuss" role where seeing the user's browser history gives the supervisor information about what the user has been reading and they initiate a conversation about it. It doesn't have to lead to blocking and restriction. It can be another tool for parents to use to teach their children.

Re:Everyone can now track down noisy tabs by superuser2 on Wednesday January 15, 2014 @01:52AM (#7062029)
> where seeing the user's browser history gives the supervisor information about what the user has been reading and they initiate a conversation about it.

Surveillance has a chilling effect and parent-child surveillance is no different.

If I had to do this, I would have just avoided the internet as much as possible. I suspect most kids beyond age 9/10 are roughly the same.

I would never have learned to program, never have started reading HN, never have browsed Wikipedia except for specific queries. I would never have acquired the information or communication and technical skills I currently possess. I'd be a completely different and vastly inferior person looking at a much less interesting future.

> It doesn't have to lead to blocking and restriction

"Monitor and supervise" is orders of magnitude worse than content filtering. This approach forces children to block themselves from having any sort of individual experience. If your child is even slightly introverted and is old enough not to not want to share every second with you, "monitor and supervise internet activity" is equal to "learn about and engage with the world around you as little as possible." It sends a message that by default, information is bad - any time you do seek information, you know you'll have to justify your curiosity. This doesn't just apply to objectionable content, it applies to everything.

I was happy to show my parents my finished projects and even wrote a few specifically for family. If I were getting interrogated, incompetently, about every intermediate step ("Why did you install django-south? What's a database? What's a schema? What's a query? What's a function? Oh, is that like a ___? No, mom, go away.") I would have just watched mindless TV instead.

Could you imagine knowing that you will have to discuss every link you follow and every Google search you enter with anyone, let alone your parents? That's horrifying.

Re:Everyone can now track down noisy tabs by ccernaf on Wednesday January 15, 2014 @02:16AM (#7062077)
Why do you think that you would have to explain to your parents every single link you visit? Surely parents will use their discretion, just as they do with every other decision their child makes.

There is a difference between the government-citizen surveillance and parent-child surveillance.

Re:Everyone can now track down noisy tabs by FBT on Wednesday January 15, 2014 @05:49AM (#7062650)
The analogy between the spying government and the spying parent is a good one, and I am interested to hear how you say that it's different.

In both cases, a figure of authority (legitimate authority!) spys on you, pro[poradly for your own good. (Maybe even really for your own good! Just because the NSA's spying hasn't actually successfully foiled any terrorist plots yet doesn't mean that all spying programs of that sort are ineffectual...)

The one difference that I can see (and it's not an unimportant one) is that a good parent is open about what they are doing, and talks to the kid, gets the kids opinions. While organizations like the NSA try their hardest to make sure the citizenry don't even know that they're being spied on. This is a way in which a parent's spying might be not quite as bad.

However, remember that at least in theory the USA is a democracy, while a family is best described as a dictatorship. In the ideal world where the US government actually listened to its citizens and engaged in discourse with them, the USG would have by far the moral high ground over parents, even over parents who run a benevolent dictatorship where they actually listen the kid and make family policy accordingly, as a benevolent dictatorship still has certain problems when compared to a true democracy.

Re:Everyone can now track down noisy tabs by jack-r-abbit on Wednesday January 15, 2014 @12:51PM (#7064781)
I've been tasked with raising freshly hatched human beings. My task is to do my best to make sure that these tiny humans turn out to be worthwhile, contributing adult humans. I supervised them during their baths as infants/toddlers because an infant/toddler doesn't know yet that you can drown in very shallow water or that hot water can burn. I supervised them when we first took the training wheels off the bike because balance is hard, crashes happen and need attending to. I supervise them when we're at the playground because not every human in the world is a worthwhile, contributing human and some of them like to do bad things. I supervised them while learning to use a knife because knives can hurt if used incorrectly. I don't understand why people are so confused about a parent supervising a child's computer use. I'm not some fucking idiot that is going to interrogate my kid about why she Googled "Mark Twain". But if I noticed that my 6 year old had been reading up on how to cook Meth, I might want to have a few words with him. It is my job as a parent to make sure he understands that cooking Meth is illegal and dangerous. That doesn't mean he can't have a science kit for his birthday. Raising children is more than keeping a roof over them and feeding them. It is about letting them experience things on their own but stepping in when guidance is needed. But everyone is free to raise their children the best they see fit.
Re:Everyone can now track down noisy tabs by avighnay on Tuesday January 14, 2014 @10:33PM (#7061492)
The fact is inspite of all parenting measures each one of us has had encounters as a child, which when looking back might have done us great harm if we were not just plain lucky enough to have supportive parents

As parents ourselves this gets us into the cycle of being protective around our own children and it is definitely needed to minimize the encounters and be there to safely catch them when they fall

A bird pushes its fledgling off a ledge to make it fly but also hurries to take it under its wings when it senses a predator about. Guess this is basically the dilemma of every parent (every child that becomes the parent)

Re:Everyone can now track down noisy tabs by LaGrange on Wednesday January 15, 2014 @09:31AM (#7063498)
In fact I’d say that the harm to the trust in your parent that comes from such censorship pretty much outweighs the risk of reading stuff. It’s important to know what the kids do, but that’s to be achieved by having real contact with them and having them tell you that.

Which happens in many families I know, so before anyone says that’s impossible because of the „teenage rebellion”: too bad all the kids that can assert their independence while still talking to their parents about pretty much everything exist.

Re:Everyone can now track down noisy tabs by snowwrestler on Tuesday January 14, 2014 @10:57PM (#7061578)
Information is the most dangerous thing there is.
Re:Everyone can now track down noisy tabs by CamperBob2 on Wednesday January 15, 2014 @12:11AM (#7061779)
Well, yeah, but not in the sense used by the GP and other assorted pearl-clutchers in the thread.
Re:Everyone can now track down noisy tabs by zobzu on Tuesday January 14, 2014 @11:11PM (#7061629)
Likewise. I turned out ok. I think.