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Re:Amazon Analytics Service by nostromo on Friday November 08, 2013 @01:13PM (#6697952)
I wonder if these big brands (Amazon, Google) can be stretched infinitely with more and more offerings without confusing users.

Amazon is a retailer and cloud computing provider and a video streaming service and a TV producer and a device manufacturer and a grocery store and a bank for small business loans and a hundred other things... At what point does the umbrella brand start to confuse people?

Bezos must have a brain the size of Texas to keep all these moving parts in mind.

Re:Amazon Analytics Service by ig1 on Friday November 08, 2013 @01:28PM (#6698076)
It's not anything new, conglomerates have existed for a long time before the internet age.

For example consider Sony: Sony Computer Entertainment (gaming), Sony Mobile (phones), Sony Pictures (movies), Sony Music (music), Sony Life (insurance), Sony Bank (banking), Sony Corporation (electronics), Sony Visual (imaging), Sony Medical (medtech)

Re:Amazon Analytics Service by Segmentation on Friday November 08, 2013 @01:51PM (#6698259)
Then there's Samsung, I think they're the largest conglomerate in the world.

My mom would affiliate Samsung with TVs. I'd probably put them with computer monitors and phones.

They also build skyscrapers and power plants (Samsung C&T Corporation), and ships (Samsung Heavy Industries). They also sell Life Insurance in South Korea.

Re:Amazon Analytics Service by yapcguy on Friday November 08, 2013 @06:47PM (#6699883)
In Hong Kong, Asia's richest billionaire, Mr Li Ka-Shing of Cheung Kong Holdings, owns nearly everything. Anything you do or touch in a day makes Mr Li even richer. His wealth is opaque so he is probably right up there with Bill Gates and Carlos Slim for the #1 spot.
Re:Amazon Analytics Service by bpicolo on Friday November 08, 2013 @09:32PM (#6700432)
Bloomberg puts him at $28.8B. Not necessarily opaque.
Re:Amazon Analytics Service by ksec on Friday November 08, 2013 @09:51PM (#6700470)
And he recently admitted that only half of his wealth are in stocks. Which actually puts him near the top spot.
Re:Amazon Analytics Service by sjtgraham on Friday November 08, 2013 @02:34PM (#6698563)
Yamaha: musical instruments, motorcycles, outboard motorboat engines…
Re:Amazon Analytics Service by baddox on Friday November 08, 2013 @07:09PM (#6699974)
Westinghouse: TVs and nuclear reactors.

(Really, that's two separate companies which license the brand from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westinghouse_Licensing_Corporat...)

Re:Amazon Analytics Service by soneca on Friday November 08, 2013 @03:49PM (#6699051)
I am not from India, so someone can confirm or deny this, but I hear one can pass a whole day on India just consuming Tata products: from your car, to your food, to your clothes, etc.
Re:Amazon Analytics Service by avemuri on Friday November 08, 2013 @04:06PM (#6699161)
Close. As in it's possible, but they don't have dominant market share in many of the industries they have a presence in. Another conglomerate - Reliance - is also in that conversation.
Re:Amazon Analytics Service by avemuri on Friday November 08, 2013 @04:04PM (#6699150)
By market cap, I think it's GE. Depends on how you define conglomerate, but they're pretty diverse - financial services, plastics, aircraft engines, consumer goods...
Re:Amazon Analytics Service by adventured on Friday November 08, 2013 @07:02PM (#6699939)
This is correct. GE has been considered a conglomerate for nearly a century now. GE sports a $276 billion market cap, Samsung is at $194 billion.

I'll say however, that Samsung appears vastly undervalued. GE is trading at about 20 times earnings, Samsung is trading at 20 times just its last quarter alone (and around 5 or 6 times trailing four quarters).

Also worth noting, that despite being more profitable than Apple, Samsung trades at a 60% discount to AAPL.

Re:Amazon Analytics Service by gms on Friday November 08, 2013 @02:34PM (#6698560)
Indeed. Their revenues account for 22% of South Korea's GDP.
Re:Amazon Analytics Service by e12e on Sunday November 10, 2013 @01:20AM (#6705518)
Don't forget Mitsubishi.
Re:Amazon Analytics Service by nostromo on Friday November 08, 2013 @01:34PM (#6698134)
That's kind of my point. Sony became unfocused and muddled.

Fun fact: Twitter is worth more than Sony. Billions more.

Re:Amazon Analytics Service by ewzimm on Friday November 08, 2013 @01:42PM (#6698189)
You should see what Samsung is like in South Korea. It's not unusual to get in your Samsung car and drive down a road built and serviced by Samsung construction to the Samsung mall where you arrive at the Samsung grocery store and fill your cart with Samsung products. It works really well for them and has for years.
Re:Amazon Analytics Service by hrktb on Friday November 08, 2013 @05:44PM (#6699619)
Checked really quickly, Sony's electronics (from computers to cameras) division market cap is a 34.8bn, I have a number of 34.7bn for twitter.

And Sony as a brand is split in different groups depending on the activities (e.g. finance, music production, content licensing, network provider and who know what else). Twitter's not in the same league.

Re:Amazon Analytics Service by Strom on Friday November 08, 2013 @01:54PM (#6698289)
Or you could say that Sony has remained relevant for 67 years. Will Twitter manage to match that?
Re:Amazon Analytics Service by hackula1 on Friday November 08, 2013 @09:11PM (#6700388)
Probably not, but no one could have predicted this of Sony when they started out making tape recorders. The initial product does not seem to matter much on this time scale compared to capital and investment prowess. Twitter looks like it is making a pretty strong start on one of those, but we will see what the future holds. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony#History
Re:Amazon Analytics Service by jmduke on Friday November 08, 2013 @01:54PM (#6698292)
Is your definition of 'worth' based on market cap? I'd imagine the enterprise value of the two companies tell a different story (though I've heard some dark news about Sony in recent years, aren't they still posting billion-dollar profits?)
Re:Amazon Analytics Service by sjtgraham on Friday November 08, 2013 @02:33PM (#6698555)
This is one of the so called 22 immutable of laws of branding, i.e. the law of expansion: the power of a brand is inversely proportional to it's scope.

Vis-à-vis Amazon, I'm not sure it's a problem yet, I think of them as a retailer, AWS and Kindle, etc as separate brands. I don't see the problem at this juncture.

Re:Amazon Analytics Service by sharkweek on Friday November 08, 2013 @01:22PM (#6698030)
Great question -- when I ask my mom what she thinks of first about Amazon she says "buying Christmas gifts"

The first thing in my mind is almost always one of their technical services, most specifically AWS

Re:Amazon Analytics Service by libria on Friday November 08, 2013 @03:14PM (#6698811)
I wonder how far down the list "jungle" is on average.
Re:Amazon Analytics Service by StavrosK on Friday November 08, 2013 @08:06PM (#6700190)
It took me a while to figure out which Amazon service is called Jungle...
[deleted]
Re:Amazon Analytics Service by adventured on Friday November 08, 2013 @07:09PM (#6699973)
To be fair, they're clearly the master of countless trades. To list a few things:

- They have exceptionally high customer satisfaction. Routinely ranked among the best.

- They have great inventory management and warehousing, delivering stellar shipping times (assisting their customer happiness numbers).

- AWS is arguably the best overall cloud service. Google and Microsoft - tech giants bar none - are still struggling to catch up to where AWS was years ago.

- Their prices are extremely competitive across the board, with even the king of cheap Walmart.

- The Kindle reader service is the best, there really isn't even a close second these days. The Nook is being buried.

Re:Amazon Analytics Service by ChrisNorstrom on Friday November 08, 2013 @07:30PM (#6700054)
From my personal experience:

- I pay more fees to Amazon to sell a product and take on more losses than other online marketplaces.

- I had to quit Amazon S3 due to glitches hosting and streaming simple mp3 files. After days of troubleshooting, I just moved my files over to another service and all my problems went away.

- Crappy video streaming. I stopped buying episodes and movies from them and just bought them on YouTube where the streaming and quality was much better, at the same price.

- "AWS is arguably the best overall cloud service." Absolute Nonsense. But it's good to see their marketing efforts paid off. They offered good deals to startups which made them popular with Silicon Valley / Tech Crunch types. Every few months here on HN we get an "AWS vs Rackspace vs Other competitor" article. Amazon is NOT the best when it comes to price nor value.

- The user experience is terrible, the control panel even worse. The Seller Control Panel behaves like it's from 1997.

Not to mention:

- The slave-like conditions in their warehouses that keeps those prices low which so many people have blogged about.

Bezos is smart. But calling Amazon a master of something just because of their throughput quanity seems uncalled for. They're a giant company that was the first to make such a giant land grab in marketplaces & they use their weight to get to high places, not their "mastery".

Re:Amazon Analytics Service by hackula1 on Friday November 08, 2013 @09:12PM (#6700392)
As a long time buyer, I have had zero problems. Anecdotal evidence, obviously.
Re:Amazon Analytics Service by paulhauggis on Saturday November 09, 2013 @02:45AM (#6701010)
you're lucky you didn't get your seller account banned. I sold on Amazon a couple of years ago and had 100% feedback. A customer ordered a book from me, claimed they never got it, and filed a claim.

I normally just take my losses and refund asap in these situations, but I was given no chance because the customer filed it right away.

Amazon banned my account within an hour of the claim. I thought it was a mistake and tried to contact seller support. Little did I know that there is no support. There was a maze of automated responses..and then a permanent ban. I can't signup to any Amazon services to this day.

I'm just shocked that Amazon can get away with taking as much as 16% from a seller..and then offer almost no support.

Even worse is the fact that you can build a business for years on Amazon..with little to show for it. You don't get any contact info. When your account is banned, your business is done. It's too much power to put in the hands of a company that has no respect for its sellers.

Re:Amazon Analytics Service by green1997 on Saturday November 09, 2013 @08:54AM (#6701619)
Have definitely seen sellers have no-service type issues with Amazon, and the only fix for them was asking me to contact my buddy who was an 8-year tenured engineer there who somehow got to the right internal person -- annoying.
Re:Amazon Analytics Service by fsckin on Saturday November 09, 2013 @06:34AM (#6701365)
Executive carpet bomb will fix you right up. Promise.
Re:Amazon Analytics Service by mathattack on Friday November 08, 2013 @01:58PM (#6698327)
They made the leap from books to other items seamlessly. I think that their branding as Amazon rather than something else was behind this. They mildly redirected their brand with AWS, but still pulled it off. I think the analytic offering doesn't change much of the branding.

My assumption on Bezos is that half is he's an obsessive genius, and half is he hires very well. You need the right people to keep the parts moving without detailed guidance.

You can tell that Google is aware of this challenge by the simplicity of their Search screen. They keep a lot of their offerings hived away from the top screen.

Re:Amazon Analytics Service by CurtMonash on Friday November 08, 2013 @08:21PM (#6700241)
Conglomerates peaked in the US in the 1960s; since then, it's been believed that too much de-focus is bad. That said, it's certainly OK for a company to have multiple businesses. Berkshire-Hathaway is like an old-style conglomerate. GE is regarded as being very well run. Etc.

The danger of a conglomerate is that a culture or decision-making paradigm suitable for the dominant business(es) might not be good for others. E.g., smaller businesses might get ignored because they don't matter enough. Or they might not be allowed to move quickly and take risks. E.g., Xerox found that selling LISP machines and copier paper mixed badly, as reorders of the latter were held hostage to the immaturity of the former.

Re:Amazon Analytics Service by alariccole on Friday November 08, 2013 @04:18PM (#6699221)
Good point, but I don't think it muddles any messages, at least when the audiences are clearly defined. Marketing to devs using Amazon APIs or consumers shopping and watching movies isn't going to overlap.
Re:Amazon Analytics Service by marincounty on Friday November 08, 2013 @03:36PM (#6698962)
Yea, I just got a email from Amazon asking "Why I didn't use the video service." Why--because I already watch the boob tube too much. Jobs summed it up--stick with three things and do them well.
Re:Amazon Analytics Service by jmduke on Friday November 08, 2013 @04:14PM (#6699205)
For the record: Apple, off the top of my head, is in the business of consumer hardware, professional hardware, accessories, consumer software, productivity software, consumption software, cloud storage, communications, and eCommerce platforms.
Re:Amazon Analytics Service by xwowsersx on Friday November 08, 2013 @01:52PM (#6698278)
I don't see how/why the multitude of offerings should confuse users. If I'm looking for mobile analytics and I find Amazon's, what difference does it make to me that they're hand is in a million other things? The only confusion will be if their documentation sucks :)
Re:Amazon Analytics Service by drawkbox on Friday November 08, 2013 @04:04PM (#6699142)
Let's set the crazy point right now, when Amazon University offers Masters in Law we'll know it is a virtual Costco from Idiocracy.

On a serious side, it stops when Bezos can't make it work and there aren't many things that fit in that category. I'll see you at Amazon U.

Re:Amazon Analytics Service by deepGem on Saturday November 09, 2013 @02:55AM (#6701025)
Mitsubishi corporation. Pretty much anything and everything from toasters to trains.
Re:Amazon Analytics Service by jacques_chester on Saturday November 09, 2013 @04:22AM (#6701176)
Mitsubishi is one of the major "Keiretsu" in Japan, the descendants of the pre-WW2 Zaibatsu.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keiretsu