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Re:What 'Lean In' Misunderstands About Gender Differences by harryh on Thursday October 17, 2013 @01:00PM (#6566608)
So women really just prefer to not work, take care of the kids and the house. And they're totally comfortable with generally being poorer and less powerful.

Ya right.

Really disappointing to see pg link to this.

Re:What 'Lean In' Misunderstands About Gender Differences by NoPiece on Thursday October 17, 2013 @01:16PM (#6566705)
In a 2013 national poll on modern parenthood, the Pew Research Center asked mothers and fathers to identify their "ideal" working arrangement. Fifty percent of mothers said they would prefer to work part-time and 11 percent said they would prefer not to work at all. Fathers answered differently: 75 percent preferred full-time work. And the higher the socio-economic status of women, the more likely they were to reject full-time employment.

It might sound crazy, but when you are a little older, married, and have kids, it will make more sense.

And for the ~40% of women who want to go back to work - AWESOME. Go hire them. Make it easy to leave and come back. But stop judging and just let women do what they want.

Re:What 'Lean In' Misunderstands About Gender Differences by dingaling on Friday October 18, 2013 @04:33AM (#6570348)
> Fifty percent of mothers said they would prefer to work part-time

The actual quote from the report is:

Among women who say they “don’t even have enough to meet basic expenses,” about half (47%) say the ideal situation for them is to work full time.

which is very different. 'Ideal situation' based on economic conditions, not a preference.

The report summary keeps on referring to economic considerations:

http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2013/03/14/modern-parenthood-...

Re:What 'Lean In' Misunderstands About Gender Differences by overgryphon on Thursday October 17, 2013 @02:58PM (#6567427)
I really wish people focused more on allowing women to build careers after their children are raised. Stop judging women who do leave work as somehow less mentally capable once they're done.
Re:What 'Lean In' Misunderstands About Gender Differences by JPKab on Thursday October 17, 2013 @01:24PM (#6566760)
As if taking care of the kids ISN'T WORK? This article is about priorities, and we all need to stop being elitist assholes who think work outside the home is more important because it generates currency.

My wife is a stay at home mom, and she works her ass off to do the most important job in the world: creating new, productive citizens.

What sucks is how she has to deal with social pressures which increasingly make her feel like a loser if she isn't pursuing a career outside of raising our children. Feminism is about giving women and men the same choices. Hell, I wish men could stay home with kids without being viewed as "not real men" in the majority of this country.

Re:What 'Lean In' Misunderstands About Gender Differences by harryh on Thursday October 17, 2013 @01:27PM (#6566770)
Women and men don't currently have the same choices. That's the problem.

There are huge systematic biases that push women towards less powerful roles in society.

Re:What 'Lean In' Misunderstands About Gender Differences by JPKab on Thursday October 17, 2013 @01:35PM (#6566847)
Agreed regarding the biases pushing women towards less powerful roles. On the other hand, men are pressured socially to always choose certain roles, whether they want power or not. By definition, the majority of men aren't leaders and possess little power. But watch what happens to a guy who becomes a stay at home dad. The snarky comments, the jokes, the behind the back comments.... Don't think for a second women get anything nearly as bad in this decade when they choose to go to work.

I think that's where the disconnect between the Feminists and the Reddit-type Men's Rights people are(not talking about the psychos on there). The MRA guys aren't saying men need more paths to power. They just want more choices, while the Feminists want a society that isn't constantly steering women to subservient roles, no matter what choice they make.

Re:What 'Lean In' Misunderstands About Gender Differences by harryh on Thursday October 17, 2013 @03:18PM (#6567547)
One one hand you've got a person who's had their arm chopped off and is squirting blood from a gruesome stump.

On the other hand, you've got someone complaining about their hang nail and saying it's just as big of a deal.

Re:What 'Lean In' Misunderstands About Gender Differences by JPKab on Thursday October 17, 2013 @06:59PM (#6568752)
My mother was a drug addict. My earliest memory of her was being alone all day at the age of 4 with my 4 siblings, with no food and my 8 year old sister (she was the oldest) trying to find something for us to eat. After dark, my mom came home and tossed a bag containing one serving of McDonald's french fries and a hamburger wrapper (minus the hamburger) on the floor, yelled "dinner's here" and walked into her room and locked the door.

She had been awarded sole custody of us in my parent's separation, by default, and was subsequently given full custody, despite a well known history of public fits of violence against my father. Out of five kids, none of us talk to my mother. She is dying of emphysema induced heart failure, and will die alone. My sisters are old enough to remember her letting my twin brother and I starve in our crib all day. They hate her.

The state only gave my father custody after the neighbors called the police 3 separate times. The 3rd time, because my sisters were locked out of the house in the snow after returning home on the school bus to a locked house with only my brother and me inside.

So fuck you for making light of a situation that, on a daily basis, negatively affects children's lives by awarding custody to the lesser of two parents.

Re:What 'Lean In' Misunderstands About Gender Differences by zabramow on Thursday October 17, 2013 @02:35PM (#6567281)
I have the opposite scenario. When I left my job to found my start-up, it forced my wife to go back to work and NOT be with the kids. I can tell you that, while I don't suck as a dad, my wife was infinitely better at being a nurturing parent than I was.

To me, the real question is -- are we sure that women in the workplace is progress or will we look back 50 or 100 years from now and laugh at how silly we were to try to ignore gender difference.

Re:What 'Lean In' Misunderstands About Gender Differences by MartinCron on Thursday October 17, 2013 @01:28PM (#6566789)
Throughout "Lean In", Sandberg uses the terms "works inside the home" or "works outside the home" to help drive that point home.

There's also a lot of discussion about how men don't have the same choice to be primary caregivers the way women do. I was skeptical, but it was a good read.

Re:What 'Lean In' Misunderstands About Gender Differences by redthrowaway on Thursday October 17, 2013 @01:13PM (#6566685)
>So women really just prefer to not work

That's what the quoted study appears to suggest, yes. Disputing those claims requires slightly more effort on your part than "ya right".

>Really disappointing to see pg link to this.

pg didn't link to it.

Re:What 'Lean In' Misunderstands About Gender Differences by harryh on Thursday October 17, 2013 @01:14PM (#6566697)
Re:What 'Lean In' Misunderstands About Gender Differences by redthrowaway on Thursday October 17, 2013 @01:20PM (#6566729)
I stand corrected. Regardless, your original comment added nothing to the discussion.
Re:What 'Lean In' Misunderstands About Gender Differences by Zaephyr on Thursday October 17, 2013 @01:27PM (#6566779)
The position the article is espousing is more nuanced than your characterization.

According to the article, some studies suggest that where women have greater opportunities typically they will pursue interests that are not strictly tied to high power/earnings as they reach certain earning thresholds. This level of earning need is less than that of men on average.

It's an interesting article and worth a read, regardless whether one thinks the data is accurate.

Re:What 'Lean In' Misunderstands About Gender Differences by harryh on Thursday October 17, 2013 @02:06PM (#6567071)
I bet if you polled the women in Saudi Arabia lots of them would say that they absolutely prefer wearing clothing that reveals nothing but their eyes because to do otherwise would unnecessarily incite men to acts of lust.
Re:What 'Lean In' Misunderstands About Gender Differences by Zaephyr on Friday October 18, 2013 @01:29PM (#6572610)
With a bombastic non-sequitur counter to my response you obviously take issue with what I said, however, you managed to do so without contributing anything of value to the discussion.

Trolling does nothing to advance an issue you claim to care about. As a C-level executive, perhaps you are a better example than you realize of why women are under represented in your ranks.

Re:What 'Lean In' Misunderstands About Gender Differences by gred on Thursday October 17, 2013 @01:30PM (#6566805)
If that was your takeaway, I'm not surprised that you're disappointed... But it wasn't mine. This whole discussion about gender roles gets contentious fast when people feel they're being told that their sense of identity is wrong, their preferences are abnormal, their priorities are upside down, or their life choices were incorrect.

People all along the opinion spectrum overgeneralize and end up making others feel this way. Even your comment may easily alienate someone who has actually made the choices you dismiss so easily.

When I read a piece like this, what sticks out in my mind is one question: "Hey guys, are you sure A, B and C are what everyone of gender X should be / do / value?"

Re:What 'Lean In' Misunderstands About Gender Differences by harryh on Thursday October 17, 2013 @02:03PM (#6567045)
Individuals should be able to do whatever the hell they want. But where there are obvious society wide biases in favor of men we shouldn't blame it on the crazy idea that women are choosing to systematically disempower themselves.
Re:What 'Lean In' Misunderstands About Gender Differences by mkr-hn on Thursday October 17, 2013 @08:38PM (#6569117)
All this concern for women choosing their own path, and so little concern for men being pushed by both men and women to pursue high-stress careers just to be accepted. It's hard for someone who's happy with a less ambitious career to compete with someone who's been trained from birth to never stop seeking more power and wealth no matter the personal cost. It's no surprise most take the more fulfilling role and let guys destroy themselves.