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Re:Jewish Nobel Laureates by hrasyid on Friday October 11, 2013 @11:19PM (#6537117)
By the way, has anyone come up with a possible explanation for the seemingly disproportionate number of Jewish laureates and smart people in general? Do Jews have some tradition or belief that's helpful in this?
Re:Jewish Nobel Laureates by jaryd on Friday October 11, 2013 @11:25PM (#6537128)
In traditional Jewish culture there is a large emphasis on education. In the most traditional sense, Rabbis are essentially scholars. They study the Torah. In ancient times they would sit around and do nothing but study the Torah and discuss its various interpretations--this was their primary purpose. You might consider them among the world's first pedants :) In traditional communities Rabbis are among the most respected members. Consequently, there is tremendous value placed on qualities of intelligence and conscientious study. Fast forward to current times and that still exists to a great degree in modern Jewish culture (in my experience).
Re:Jewish Nobel Laureates by azinman2 on Saturday October 12, 2013 @12:39AM (#6537320)
I'd say the emphasis is more on professionalism. It's been a long time since Jews were primarily agricultural for many reasons (http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/everyday_economics/2003/0...). That combined with the fact that Christianity (for a long time) didn't allow loans with interest, so Jews filled in that role (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loans_and_interest_in_Judaism).

I don't know why this is on HN at all, however. When I was surprised at the supreme court ruling on gay marriage not well covered on HN (I thought the liberty angle made it appropriate), people seemed to think otherwise (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5949827).

Re:Jewish Nobel Laureates by mynameishere on Friday October 11, 2013 @11:35PM (#6537150)
Average IQ of 115 among the Ashkenazim. That's why. It's not really that interesting, but it enrages almost everyone who hears it. 115 isn't that smart, but it works out that they have a huge disproportion of members in the more important 145+ IQ range.

Anyway, you'll find that Jews have similar numbers in such things as Fields medals, Senate seats, the Forbes 400, etc, all at about 15-25 percent of the total.

Re:Jewish Nobel Laureates by itchitawa on Friday October 11, 2013 @11:50PM (#6537177)
Sorry, you're not allowed to assign average IQs to racial groups anymore. Not since black Americans were found to be lower than whites. You have to attribute the anomalous test scores to the biases in the tests to be politically correct.
Re:Jewish Nobel Laureates by fusiongyro on Saturday October 12, 2013 @12:09AM (#6537224)
You might find the book Twice as Less interesting, it offers an interesting and researched explanation for the validity of the effect you're mocking.
Re:Jewish Nobel Laureates by ekm2 on Saturday October 12, 2013 @12:10AM (#6537232)
East asians have a higher average IQ,so it is not necessarily a straight iQ thing.
Re:Jewish Nobel Laureates by omonra on Saturday October 12, 2013 @11:03AM (#6538948)
That's false. You can easily google it, here is one page: http://www.darkmoon.me/2012/world-iq-figures-with-brief-note...
Re:Jewish Nobel Laureates by ekm2 on Saturday October 12, 2013 @12:46PM (#6539317)
Check Richard Lynn's Intelligence and the Wealth and Poverty of Nations

The top countries on that list are Japan(110),Hong Kong(107) and Taiwan(104).Germany and Singapore are tied at 103.

Re:Jewish Nobel Laureates by omonra on Saturday October 12, 2013 @02:13PM (#6539654)
Sigh.

Did you even read the parent to which you replied?

Do you know who Ashkenazi are?

Do you realize that Ashkenazi do not have a specific country? Ie Israel IQ average is 94 because half the country are not Ashkenazi (Arabs / Sephardic Jews / others)

Re:Jewish Nobel Laureates by ekm2 on Saturday October 12, 2013 @02:22PM (#6539684)
>Did you even read the parent to which you replied?

I did.And the 115 figure is wrong.It should actually be a range:108-115, and only for American Ashkenazim.It is a number that could be explained more by selective migration than anything else.A better comparison would have been between East Asians in the US and American Ashkenazim.The average for European Ashkenazim is about 102. There should also be a proper accounting for the bamboo ceiling

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bamboo_ceiling

Re:Jewish Nobel Laureates by omonra on Saturday October 12, 2013 @02:43PM (#6539753)
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4098351,00.html

"According to a study performed by Cambridge University called, "From Chance to Choice: Genetic and Justice," Ashkenazi Jews have a median IQ of 117."

That study does NOT specifically mention American Jews.

Jews in the US are just more dominant/successful because of lack of persecution. But when allowed to, Jews were even more dominant in Soviet Union. For example They comprised 3% of population and 58% of Nobel laureates (total number 26).

Lastly, your point about selective migration is completely hollow. I know A LOT about Jewish history and there was no selective migration of smarter individuals. If anything - smarter/richer Jews would tend to stay in the old country.

Re:Jewish Nobel Laureates by ekm2 on Saturday October 12, 2013 @02:51PM (#6539782)
>Jews in the US are just more dominant/successful because of lack of persecution.

And East Asians are just less dominant/successful because of the bamboo ceiling.

Re:Jewish Nobel Laureates by omonra on Saturday October 12, 2013 @03:15PM (#6539876)
Could be. Don't forget - Nobel prizes are given our for work done 20-40 years ago. So Asians doing stuff now will only get recognized in the future. With time, I think they will catch up to Jews.
Re:Jewish Nobel Laureates by clarkm on Saturday October 12, 2013 @12:46AM (#6537350)
No they don't.
Re:Jewish Nobel Laureates by 4hthth4 on Saturday October 12, 2013 @01:42AM (#6537445)
Way to contribute.
Re:Jewish Nobel Laureates by ekianjo on Saturday October 12, 2013 @12:31AM (#6537285)
Iq relates very poorly to success in life. There are several publications on this subject so before saying /thats why/ you should look for other reasons that may explain their successes.
Re:Jewish Nobel Laureates by hackinthebochs on Saturday October 12, 2013 @03:17AM (#6537660)
Funny, I've read the exact opposite.
Re:Jewish Nobel Laureates by ekianjo on Sunday October 13, 2013 @01:06PM (#6543239)
Sources?
Re:Jewish Nobel Laureates by wisty on Friday October 11, 2013 @11:38PM (#6537156)
For centuries, Jews in Europe were effectively barred from a great many professions. The big exception tended to be finance (money lending - which Christians were often barred from). So Jewish kids had to learn a lot of math, and some Jewish families had a lot of money.

There's actually a big boost second-generation immigrants get. They understand the culture they are in, but they feel they need to work hard to keep up, and they aren't too afraid to break the rules (since it's not really their culture).

Re:Jewish Nobel Laureates by pedalpete on Saturday October 12, 2013 @12:24AM (#6537265)
I've read that because they often learn both Hebrew and English as young children, and therefore learn to read and write both left-to-right and right-to-left, this has an effect on the number of neural connections across both sides of the brain which results in an increase in creativity. Unfortunately, I can't find a link which even references this.

If this is the case, we may see a similar increase in Muslims in the coming generations as more of them are raised in English speaking cultures (assuming it will take a generation or two for us to have a large enough sample size).

Re:Jewish Nobel Laureates by SqMafia on Saturday October 12, 2013 @12:46AM (#6537349)
I would be very skeptical since the same would apply to Chinese Americans too among others.
Re:Jewish Nobel Laureates by wisty on Saturday October 12, 2013 @04:25AM (#6537859)
Like Tsung-Dao Lee and Chen Ning Yang, Samuel Chao Chung Ting, Shing-Tung Yau, Steven Chu, and Daniel Tsui? See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_American#Science_and_tech...

Plus the Chinese guy who built China's ICBMs (after the US exiled him, under suspicion that he as sympathetic to his home country ... smart move that was).

Oh, and Terrance Tao.

There's quite a few Chinese-Americans who did pretty well. I'm not sure what generation they are, and I'd have to check if there's a higher proportion than non-western Americans; but the general idea (which could do with some real verification) is that "outsiders" often pursue a lot of the higher risk careers which "insiders" don't tend to flock to.

Just have a look at the students at any hard-core undergraduate course, and count the number of students with black hair.

There's not so many famous Asians in entertainment, probably because of the parts available. A Chinese actor is more likely to be offered the role of "ethnic minor character", while a Jewish actor won't be so constrained.

Re:Jewish Nobel Laureates by SqMafia on Saturday October 12, 2013 @12:01PM (#6539161)
You also have to account for both cultures placing a very strong emphasis on education. Judaism is defined by the Torah and Rabbis are scholars. Chinese and other East Asians are strongly influenced by Confucianism which places scholars at the top.

Also Indian Americans are well represented in hard core undergraduate courses too. Not sure which direction Indian is read from. If it's the same as Hebrew and Chinese then I might have to concede :-)

Re:Jewish Nobel Laureates by pedalpete on Sunday October 13, 2013 @06:08PM (#6544326)
Here's a bit of anecdotal evidence (as it only takes one subject into account). http://singularityhub.com/2013/10/13/the-secret-to-einsteins...
Re:Jewish Nobel Laureates by jprince on Friday October 11, 2013 @11:24PM (#6537122)
Yeah, it's based on our tradition of studying Torah translating to studying other fields. The built in cultural requirement to always be a good study has made us wildly successful in academics.
Re:Jewish Nobel Laureates by omonra on Saturday October 12, 2013 @11:02AM (#6538940)
1. It's not ALL Jews but rather Ashkenazi Jews who are so over-represented

2. Ashkenazi Jews come from Europe (they are basically descendents of Jewish men & Italian women) - this was just was just proven a few days ago [1].

3. Europe in the middle ages heavily discriminated against the Jews (mostly due to the Church). It manifested itself in a number of prohibitions on what Jews could and could not do.

4. These prohibitions put a large premium on intelligence. Then evolution took over - smart Jews were more successful and had more kids [1].

5. Until the late 20 century Jews had a very strong culture of marrying other Jews. So the smart Jews who had kids would only marry other Jews - thus raising intelligence with every generation (since it was not diluted by the larger gene pool of host countries)

6. This process went on for about a thousand years.

As a result, Ashkenazi population has the highest average IQ of any group (about 115 as mentioned in another comment). That in itself would not be a big deal - but that means that they have a DISPROPORTIONATELY large percent of people with really high IQ (2SD above the mean).

What I described is not controversial - it's pretty much current state of scientific thought on the issue.

[0] http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/10/131008112539.ht...

[1] http://www.economist.com/node/4032638

Re:Jewish Nobel Laureates by melling on Friday October 11, 2013 @11:30PM (#6537143)
They value education and work very hard to excel in these areas? In America, I think people in general would rather get MBA's and law degrees and simply import engineers and scientists. We've had a dislike of nerds, geeks, and "smart" people for quite some time. It only started becoming somewhat acceptable to people once you could make a lot of money.

In software development, you'll frequently find many people simply want to use the job as a stepping stone to middle management.

Re:Jewish Nobel Laureates by tjr on Friday October 11, 2013 @11:44PM (#6537167)
Re:Jewish Nobel Laureates by SqMafia on Saturday October 12, 2013 @12:44AM (#6537342)
Unless they can control for all other factors or at least most of them, any explanation is going to look pretty silly.