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Re:NYU Neatly Embodies Everything Wrong With Higher Educatio... by rossjudson on Wednesday June 19, 2013 @11:17AM (#5906008)
Any government backed student loan should have a simple repayment schedule -- a maximum of 15% of your earnings for 10 years following graduation. At the end of 10 years, the loan is considered fully paid and any balance, if remaining, forgiven. The institution eats the cost of forgiving the balance.

So if you're an institution providing an expensive but worthless education, you aren't going to get paid for it.

Let's treat universities the same way we treat teachers -- let's assess the results.

Re:NYU Neatly Embodies Everything Wrong With Higher Educatio... by rayiner on Wednesday June 19, 2013 @11:31AM (#5906099)
For all the hand-wringing, the current federal student loan system (under Obama's PAY-E program) has pretty sensible repayment terms. You pay a maximum of 10% of your earnings above 150% of the household poverty level (but no more than you would under an ordinary 10 year repayment plan), capitalized interest capped (over the lifetime of the loan) at 10% of the original principal, balance forgiven after 20 years.

It's progressive, there's a safety net, and it is, for the time being, solvent (government makes 30-50% profit on each dollar lent). Yes, people with great credit who would end up paying less under a standard 10 year repayment at say 5% end up subsidizing those who graduate without getting a decent job, but I think that's uniquely justifiable in this context, because everyone involved is turning to the student loans as a way to better their economic situation (after all, nothing stops you from paying in cash or getting a private loan at 5% if you can qualify for one).

I think if you added a cap in there instead of going up to full cost of attendance, to force schools to moderate their tuitions, it would be nearly perfect.

Re:NYU Neatly Embodies Everything Wrong With Higher Educatio... by rossjudson on Wednesday June 19, 2013 @11:54AM (#5906250)
Good info. The problem I see with a cap is that it's one size fits all. I'd rather see a system where a school can charge higher rates if it is confident that its graduates will be able to repay those loans.

20 years just seems too long.

And the key point here is that when a balance is forgiven, the institution should bear the cost, not the government. Maybe that's already the case. Can you provide more detail?

Re:NYU Neatly Embodies Everything Wrong With Higher Educatio... by danielweber on Wednesday June 19, 2013 @02:40PM (#5907372)
the institution should bear the cost

That assumes they really feel it. If a school charges you $500,000 per year for tuition and then gives you financial aid of $480,000 per year, they aren't really giving you that money.

If a school extends you $150,000 in credit, and then in 20 years you've only paid $40,000 of it back, they haven't really lost $110,000. They are just practicing perfect price discrimination, getting the most money from the people most willing to pay, backed up by the government who is doing the work of auditing people's tax records to ensure compliance.

Re:NYU Neatly Embodies Everything Wrong With Higher Educatio... by mseebach on Wednesday June 19, 2013 @11:32AM (#5906102)
Even simpler: Don't have the government involved in student loans at all, and let the market price loans for different degrees for different students freely. Those institutions that can convince lenders that graduates will be in a position to pay back the loans quickly will be able to offer lower rates to students, and thus attract more and better students.

Those out to study degrees that don't offer great employment opportunities will be offered more expensive loans which will curb demand for such degrees which will depress the cost of the degrees. It will also make sure that fewer people will go to a party college and study an easy degree (or, at least, that those that do aren't subsidised by tax-payer underwritten credit).

Extra bonus: All those companies that clamour for STEM grads have a very simple avenue for putting their money where their mouths are: Simply go out and underwrite some cheap loans. (And no, indentured servitude is still illegal - companies underwriting student debt shouldn't be allowed to change the terms of the loan if the student comes to work for them).

Re:NYU Neatly Embodies Everything Wrong With Higher Educatio... by brown9-2 on Wednesday June 19, 2013 @11:41AM (#5906161)
Those institutions that can convince lenders that graduates will be in a position to pay back the loans quickly will be able to offer lower rates to students, and thus attract more and better students.

This assumes that a lender's primary interest is in having a loan repaid quickly. I don't think it's true - they are in it to make a profit, and exploiting the young adult with penalties and hidden fees or tricks helps expand that profit.

Re:NYU Neatly Embodies Everything Wrong With Higher Educatio... by mseebach on Wednesday June 19, 2013 @11:49AM (#5906210)
No, true, they won't care about the speed. But they will care about the default rate - and the ability to pay the debt down faster correlates strongly with a lower risk of default.
Re:NYU Neatly Embodies Everything Wrong With Higher Educatio... by brown9-2 on Wednesday June 19, 2013 @12:30PM (#5906518)
But all other things being equal, would they choose a speedy repayment or a slower, more expensive schedule?

I think one good reason for government participation in the student loan market is that it helps reduce exploitation of the borrowers, who are mostly just-turned-18 adults so eager to attend a college they'll sign anything.

Re:NYU Neatly Embodies Everything Wrong With Higher Educatio... by mseebach on Wednesday June 19, 2013 @01:03PM (#5906746)
All other things being equal, just like with mortgages and credit cards and car loans and other credit products, there will be different options with different terms available from different providers. Including these guys: http://www.economist.com/news/finance-and-economics/21578670...
Re:NYU Neatly Embodies Everything Wrong With Higher Educatio... by xiaoma on Wednesday June 19, 2013 @11:49AM (#5906209)
That's simpler, but worse. Education is a text-book example of a good with positive externalities and it's worth subsidizing, especially for poorer people.
Re:NYU Neatly Embodies Everything Wrong With Higher Educatio... by mseebach on Wednesday June 19, 2013 @11:58AM (#5906286)
To an extend yes. Absolutely true up to and including high school, but at some point diminishing returns kick in.

The idea that all education at any cost carries positive externalities is exactly what got us into the mess that is education today.

Edited to add: Also, my proposal isn't incompatible with neither financial aid nor grants to institutions. But like underpriced mortgages caused a housing bubble, underpriced student loans is causing an education bubble.

Re:NYU Neatly Embodies Everything Wrong With Higher Educatio... by cinquemb on Wednesday June 19, 2013 @12:29PM (#5906515)
I think it might be the time to buy CDS backed by securities on student loans[0]...

Time for me to find some investors and pull my own Kyle Bass :P

[0]: http://m.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/sallie-mae-to-s...

Re:NYU Neatly Embodies Everything Wrong With Higher Educatio... by danielweber on Wednesday June 19, 2013 @12:13PM (#5906402)
But almost all of the returns to education are captured by the person receiving the education. How much incentive do you need to provide to someone to increase their own earnings by 50%?

If you want to see what happens when a society mindlessly thinks "more kids in more college is better, damn everything else," look at society right now.

Re:NYU Neatly Embodies Everything Wrong With Higher Educatio... by fatjokes on Wednesday June 19, 2013 @12:48PM (#5906644)
> Let's treat universities the same way we treat teachers -- let's assess the results.

There are dozens of legitimate ratings of colleges and universities and NYU rarely ranks at the top academically (except their research staff, which I know can be exceptional). That won't stop kids from paying $40k/yr from going there so they can party it up in the Village for 4 years.

Re:NYU Neatly Embodies Everything Wrong With Higher Educatio... by danielweber on Wednesday June 19, 2013 @11:56AM (#5906267)
maximum of 15% of your earnings for 10 years following graduation

And then we make it 20%, and then 30%, and then extend it out to 15 years, and then . . .

We've been putting people into debt they cannot escape to go to college while telling them they "need" to go to college. Given the history, the end result of any kind of "we take a portion of your income" plan will be to make it ever more efficient for the colleges to capture 99% of the lifetime earning difference between a high-school grad and a college grad.

We need price pressure on the cost of education.

Re:NYU Neatly Embodies Everything Wrong With Higher Educatio... by fantnn on Wednesday June 19, 2013 @11:23AM (#5906039)
What if you've dropped out?
Re:NYU Neatly Embodies Everything Wrong With Higher Educatio... by interestinecom on Wednesday June 19, 2013 @11:26AM (#5906061)
Then you repay the amount of money you took off the Government. I don't understand how that's even a question?
Re:NYU Neatly Embodies Everything Wrong With Higher Educatio... by danielweber on Wednesday June 19, 2013 @12:00PM (#5906298)
It's a question because we shove a lot of people into college that don't belong there, and then they can't cut it, and end up with the worst of both worlds: no college degree (employers can legally discriminate against them based on that) and a bunch of debt.
Re:NYU Neatly Embodies Everything Wrong With Higher Educatio... by fantnn on Wednesday June 19, 2013 @11:36AM (#5906120)
10 years @15% if you've graduated is biased towards people with shit degrees is all I'm saying
Re:NYU Neatly Embodies Everything Wrong With Higher Educatio... by rossjudson on Wednesday June 19, 2013 @11:56AM (#5906270)
Agreed -- but keep in mind that institutions aren't going to be accepting loan-financed students who are unlikely to be able to pay the loans back, because that results in the institution repaying the government loan instead of the student.
Re:NYU Neatly Embodies Everything Wrong With Higher Educatio... by ceejayoz on Wednesday June 19, 2013 @11:55AM (#5906258)
It's also biased against institutions offering shit degrees at high expense. If institutions have to start eating the costs of a Byzantine pottery degree, they'll either stop offering it or start finding ways to do it more cheaply.