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Re:Tesla Unveils New Finance Product by Shivetya on Tuesday April 02, 2013 @07:03PM (#5482828)
Last I checked the residuals on S class Mercendes were in the low forty percent. Throw in the funny math needed to get your drive costs down to the five hundred dollar amount and I get less impressed by the minute.

Then to top it off, all with my money too boot! So for everyone who can afford a one thousand dollar monthly lease; before taxes; they get my help to pay for it.

Sorry, he is all in with our help. That isn't exactly courageous. He wants to capitalize on that tax credit before the money ends up elsewhere.

Look, I am all for having an electric car do well, but I would much rather finance the world of Leafs and similar affordable cars than a luxury vehicle to people who could make the payment regardless. People on sites like this bitch up a storm all the time about subsidies to various businesses but somehow this one gets a pass.

Re:Tesla Unveils New Finance Product by hkmurakami on Tuesday April 02, 2013 @08:00PM (#5483105)
The model S has captured people's mindshare and has increased publicly perceived legitimacy of electric vehicles in ways that the Leaf or Volt weren't able to. Its success and continued success is important in promoting and achieving the kind of infrastructure support and economies of scale needed to take EVs to the next stage and beyond.

To that end, even though the current state of Tesla and Model S may not be picture perfect, its success is certainly more desirable than its failure, particularly given that both its Nissan and GM counterparts have basically flopped in people's minds.

Re:Tesla Unveils New Finance Product by guelo on Wednesday April 03, 2013 @12:49AM (#5484303)
Whatever the hell it is you're talking about with mindshare and flops in peoples minds, I'm pretty sure GM and Nissan have sold a lot more electric cars than Tesla.
Re:Tesla Unveils New Finance Product by kalms on Wednesday April 03, 2013 @06:59AM (#5485277)
But they're not desirable in the same manner. You need desire when it comes to lifestyle objects like cars. It's what keeps people interested.
Re:Tesla Unveils New Finance Product by MRSallee on Wednesday April 03, 2013 @11:10AM (#5486527)
The Carolla and Camry are successful only for their intense desirability, it's true.
Re:Tesla Unveils New Finance Product by fijal on Wednesday April 03, 2013 @10:47AM (#5486348)
You might need desire. What I (and millions of ordinary people) need when it comes to cars is a cost-effective solution, which means resale value, parts, cost, petrol etc. Desire comes last.
Re:Tesla Unveils New Finance Product by AriFerreira on Wednesday April 03, 2013 @10:56AM (#5486413)
Agree - Tesla taps the passion of the die hard enthusiasts. The range and performance of the Model S is comparatively exceptional to that of the Volt and Leaf. Model S is sexy and exciting and I WANT to drive it, I don't simply concede to drive it as a best option.
Re:Tesla Unveils New Finance Product by MRSallee on Tuesday April 02, 2013 @07:17PM (#5482883)
> Look, I am all for having an electric car do well, but I would much rather finance the world of Leafs and similar affordable cars than a luxury vehicle to people who could make the payment regardless.

Nissan Leaf, average owner income: $125,000 http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1049202_just-who-is-a-ty...

Chevy Volt, average owner income: $175,000 http://autos.aol.com/article/why-the-chevy-volt-is-attractin...

Re:Tesla Unveils New Finance Product by groby_b on Tuesday April 02, 2013 @07:49PM (#5483033)
Re:Tesla Unveils New Finance Product by anigbrowl on Tuesday April 02, 2013 @07:55PM (#5483071)
So what? The Leaf is still about 1/3 the price of the Tesla car, so it's inarguably more affordable. Pointing out that the average buyer is reasonably well off is beside the point.

From an environmental standpoint it's going to lead to a greater reduction in fossil fuel use in the aggregate, assuming it sees the same pattern of takeup as the Prius did.

Re:Tesla Unveils New Finance Product by podperson on Tuesday April 02, 2013 @10:18PM (#5483783)
The simplest way to make electric cars more successful is to increase the artificially low price of gasoline, e.g. By factoring in the costs of our mid-east foreign policy and a good deal of our navy since both are driven in large part by our need for oil.
Re:Tesla Unveils New Finance Product by eru on Wednesday April 03, 2013 @12:23AM (#5484223)
I agree. But don't expect any magic.

Europe has much higher costs of gasoline than the USA. They still don't have roads full of electric cars.

Re:Tesla Unveils New Finance Product by Cass on Wednesday April 03, 2013 @03:26AM (#5484757)
We do have a lot fewer SUVs and other gas guzzlers, though.
Re:Tesla Unveils New Finance Product by Cthulhu_ on Wednesday April 03, 2013 @03:24AM (#5484751)
> They still don't have roads full of electric cars.

yet. Government subsidizes 100% electrical cars heavily in the form of low / no road taxes or lease tax, and with a high amount of <100 km commuter traffic, electrical cars with their limited range make sense.

Re:Tesla Unveils New Finance Product by flyinRyan on Wednesday April 03, 2013 @03:36AM (#5484783)
There aren't many Hummers either.
Re:Tesla Unveils New Finance Product by cantankerous on Wednesday April 03, 2013 @01:52AM (#5484507)
Americans drive a lot more than Europeans. I'm not sure if it's a totally fair comparison, but still a good point.
Re:Tesla Unveils New Finance Product by eru on Wednesday April 03, 2013 @02:35AM (#5484625)
Yes. And driving less is one of the predictable reactions to higher petrol prices.
Re:Tesla Unveils New Finance Product by Ntrails on Wednesday April 03, 2013 @04:59AM (#5484997)
It's also a space thing. As a Brit the thing I didn't get so well before going there is how sodding big the US is, and how normal it's citizens think it is to drive to the next town over which just happens to be an hour or so away.
Re:Tesla Unveils New Finance Product by cantankerous on Thursday April 04, 2013 @12:39AM (#5491009)
I was doing just this with a German foreign exchange student in Missouri once. He commented about halfway there that, if he were at home, we'd be in Poland already.
Re:Tesla Unveils New Finance Product by cantankerous on Thursday April 04, 2013 @12:40AM (#5491015)
Americans will continue to drive automobiles more than Europeans if gas prices were to go to parity. Our mass transit infrastructure is laughable by comparison. Also, we're way more spread out than Europe is.
Re:Tesla Unveils New Finance Product by Kliment on Wednesday April 03, 2013 @06:26AM (#5485206)
Electricity costs are significantly higher than in the USA as well.
Re:Tesla Unveils New Finance Product by ars on Wednesday April 03, 2013 @01:14AM (#5484366)
It might be a simple solution, but that doesn't make it a good solution. The number of unintended consequences will be enormous.

For example: Will you tax diesel as well? If not, then people will switch to that, with poor results for our air quality.

If yes, then suddenly every since thing you buy will be more expensive, since it's all shipped.

And those are just the first two things that popped into mind - there will be a LOT more consequences.

Re:Tesla Unveils New Finance Product by aidenn0 on Wednesday April 03, 2013 @01:49AM (#5484498)
So you are fine subsidizing oil companies by allowing them to externalize their costs?

Also shipping is starting to switch to natural gas; you may think this a good or a bad thing, but a tax on diesel would increase that.

Re:Tesla Unveils New Finance Product by raverbashing on Wednesday April 03, 2013 @08:59AM (#5485715)
No, you do it by taxing gasoline and diesel

You can discriminate between uses in a way similar to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_diesel#reddiesel

Re:Tesla Unveils New Finance Product by varjag on Wednesday April 03, 2013 @03:58AM (#5484827)
Taxing fuel is very much solved problem elsewhere.
Re:Tesla Unveils New Finance Product by rfugger on Wednesday April 03, 2013 @03:21AM (#5484745)
You just tax the carbon emissions.
Re:Tesla Unveils New Finance Product by jfb on Wednesday April 03, 2013 @09:15AM (#5485790)
Exactly. Tax the negative externality [1]. Let people make decisions factoring in more of the costs.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigovian_tax

Re:Tesla Unveils New Finance Product by podperson on Wednesday April 03, 2013 @07:32PM (#5490001)
Taxing carbon emissions is a fine idea, but gasoline (and other petroleum products such as diesel) also need to pay for the costs of US mid-east policy. We've never had terrorists blow up buildings or a marine barracks because of our coal mining activity.
Re:Tesla Unveils New Finance Product by lostlogin on Wednesday April 03, 2013 @02:46AM (#5484651)
The costs of Middle East policy doesnt need factoring in, they are there already. And the cost of petrol isn't the same everywhere as it is in the US, and is significantly inflated by taxes in many places. Over 50% of what I pay is tax.
Re:Tesla Unveils New Finance Product by ricardobeat on Tuesday April 02, 2013 @08:49PM (#5483392)
Tesla has openly stated their end goal is to sell an EV in the mass-market price range. The Roadster and model S are steps towards that goal.
Re:Tesla Unveils New Finance Product by edouard1234567 on Tuesday April 02, 2013 @11:13PM (#5483992)
The best place to invest your money including tax dollars is in the company with the highest chance of success. For many reasons I believe Tesla will disrupt the car industry and lead the transition to making the electric car the new standard : amazing founder, 100% focused on the electrical car, the best technology (with a true viable range),a good financial situation, good early traction and a sexy car!
Re:Tesla Unveils New Finance Product by vagarwa on Wednesday April 03, 2013 @01:39AM (#5484457)
Electric cars are an order or magnitude simpler mechanical devices as compared to IC engine cars. Once an affordable battery chemistry (or any other cheap energy storage mechanism) is figured out, a lot more electric car companies will get started (I am hoping for a healthy 'car-kit' market). Tesla is the 'best' in the sense that it has the best technology to handle the idiosyncrasies of Li-ion battery (they like to burn themselves the first opportunity they get!).
Re:Tesla Unveils New Finance Product by krichman on Wednesday April 03, 2013 @12:26AM (#5484234)
Is the government going to see a return on those? Or is it an investment because you think they are going to be a net improvement for society? To be honest if I had a choice I would give most tax dollars to the EFF and ACLU, but if Tesla can improve battery technology and adoption of electric cars I would consider it a win.
Re:Tesla Unveils New Finance Product by edouard1234567 on Wednesday April 03, 2013 @01:02AM (#5484336)
I think they have already improved battery technology and adoption of electric cars.
Re:Tesla Unveils New Finance Product by krichman on Wednesday April 03, 2013 @01:20AM (#5484384)
That's true. I should have wrote "continue to improve".
Re:Tesla Unveils New Finance Product by bneises on Wednesday April 03, 2013 @12:22PM (#5487027)
http://www.ted.com/talks/elon_musk_the_mind_behind_tesla_spa...

Here Elon speaks at TED. Somewhere in the talk he explains the reasoning behind the more expensive vehicles at this moment. (spoiler: He plans on getting less expensive, less elegant versions on the market, with the help of these more expensive versions.)

Re:Tesla Unveils New Finance Product by drchaos on Wednesday April 03, 2013 @12:56PM (#5487258)
Claiming that getting a tax credit is equivalent to taking "your" money is a totally absurd notion. Neither it is your money, because you didn't earn it in the first place (the person receiving the credit did), nor would eliminating the tax credit lead to you having to pay less taxes - the government would just be spent the money for other useless crap instead.