Re:Do Animals in Chernobyl’s Fallout Zone Glow?
by stevoski on Monday January 21, 2013 @11:53AM
(#5092263)
I visited Chernobyl a couple of years ago and was stunned by the amount of large fish in the waterways (a canal now cut off from the Dnieper river, IIRC). It seemed you could almost walk from bank to bank on the swarming fish.
It made me wonder if this is what European waterways were generally like before us humans fished and fished and fished and polluted the Rhine, Danube, Volga, Dnieper, and other major European rivers.
Re:Do Animals in Chernobyl’s Fallout Zone Glow?
by Ras_ on Monday January 21, 2013 @03:32PM
(#5093584)
Perhaps. In Nordic countries the sheer abundance of lakes and ponds lead to somewhat similar things.
"Biomass overgrowth of lakes and annual blue-green algae bloom as a result of eutrophication has reduced the overall use of water resources as seen from a point of recreational and leisure use. Also fish stocks have changed so that less valuable fish dominate at the cost of valuable fish like salmon and trout. Selective fishing is an effective way to reduce the overgrowth of less valuable fish populations and at the same time reduce eutrophication of water bodies."
http://www.hoitokalastus.com/hoitokalastus_en.html
I.e. they require certain amount of fishing to remain useful in that regard.
Re:Do Animals in Chernobyl’s Fallout Zone Glow?
by tonyedgecombe on Tuesday January 22, 2013 @05:11AM
(#5096409)
Not just the rivers but the seas as well. There are comments in literature from the 17th century very similar to yours, talking about crossing the oceans on the backs of fish.
Re:Do Animals in Chernobyl’s Fallout Zone Glow?
by DanBC on Monday January 21, 2013 @09:48AM
(#5091678)
This is a nice article. There's a problem with a lot of science reporting that people just report the controversy. Most people cannot assess a scientific paper (if the article bothers to link to the actual research) and so it'd be great if media could do a breakdown - "suitable sample?" "randomised?" "controlled?" "peer reviewed?".
Re:Do Animals in Chernobyl’s Fallout Zone Glow?
by pm90 on Monday January 21, 2013 @11:06AM
(#5092022)
I would like to know the opinion of others more knowledgeable: can't it just be because humans have such a long life span? So, maybe the animals die before the radiation actually has any effect?
Re:Do Animals in Chernobyl’s Fallout Zone Glow?
by mpyne on Monday January 21, 2013 @02:03PM
(#5093061)
Cancer is kind of associated with long life span in general, even without external radiation flux, but there are other ways that radiation can be harmful. A given amount of radiation received is more likely to damage cells that quickly divide (especially gametes) and cells that have little or no provision for repair.
So at relatively high levels of radiation you could well see that individual organisms tend to do well enough but have children with more birth defects, are more frail, have their vision deteriorate faster, etc.
I'm not sure that the radiation levels even in the Chernobyl exclusion zone are high enough for that, necessarily, but there's unfortunately a pretty wide gulf between "no effect" and developing cancer.
Re:Do Animals in Chernobyl’s Fallout Zone Glow?
by fredgrott on Monday January 21, 2013 @09:36AM
(#5091621)
the problem with some parts of the article is that in the hard high level contaminated parts we have small animal populations and in the exclusion zone parts not highly contaminated we increasing animal populations coming form other areas. Without some way methodology to weigh or readjust the numbers with new weights any study will generate error prone conclusions.
Not only that but when an animal has a shorter life-span due to radiation where do the effects show up? Its not showing in the population increase as the dying happens after the animal has given its maximum number of offspring as the study is studying long-term radiation effects from long-term radiation.
Re:Do Animals in Chernobyl’s Fallout Zone Glow?
by ultramundane8 on Monday January 21, 2013 @10:46AM
(#5091930)
Could you provide a link for more information about those mushrooms?
I like thinking about those natural anomalies that you know some brilliant mind will attempt to mimic with technology, and that is one function that could have serious potential.
Re:Do Animals in Chernobyl’s Fallout Zone Glow?
by mikegreco on Monday January 21, 2013 @01:37PM
(#5092905)
“Since ionizing radiation is prevalent in outer space, astronauts might be able to rely on fungi as an inexhaustible food source on long missions or for colonizing other planets,”
It's an interesting thought that our future Buzz Aldrins and Neil Armstrongs may be sustained by a diet of radioactive mushrooms. That sounds like a Marvel origin story.
Re:Do Animals in Chernobyl’s Fallout Zone Glow?
by gus_massa on Monday January 21, 2013 @04:08PM
(#5093772)
One important detail is that the funguses are not necessarily radioactive [x]. They absorb the gamma radiation, that it's similar to the X-rays. After a radiography, x-ray or gamma-ray exposure the things don't become radioactive. But too much radiation kills almost anything. This process is used to produce irradiated food (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_irradiation) that is safe for eating (when the irradiation is done properly).
[x] The funguses inside Chernovil are surely radioactive because they also absorb the water that is contaminated with radioactive elements. Don't eat them :).
Re:Do Animals in Chernobyl’s Fallout Zone Glow?
by malandrew on Monday January 21, 2013 @09:40PM
(#5095215)
"Those studies found mammal diversity and abundance equal to
that of a protected nature reserve, with rare species
including bears, lynx, river otter, and badger as well as
introduced herds of European bison and Przewalski’s horses.
Bird diversity is even richer and includes 61 rare species.
Whooper swans—never before reported in the region—now appear
regularly."
I love how the best conclusion you can get from this research is that even nuclear fallout is better for the environment than the presence of humans in the area.
Re:Do Animals in Chernobyl’s Fallout Zone Glow?
by yareally on Monday January 21, 2013 @10:55AM
(#5091972)
I would assume they were playing too much of the S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Series[1] or used it as source when writing the article title. Even half suggesting that animals would glow is link bait and just silly. I mean, it's not like animals glowed after the atomic attacks on Japan or anywhere nuclear weapons have been tested. Granted that there's differences in the radiation, but still it's kind of specious reasoning.
Re:Do Animals in Chernobyl’s Fallout Zone Glow?
by gus_massa on Monday January 21, 2013 @03:53PM
(#5093709)
The title is stupid, but I liked the article. I would be happy if the submitter changed the title here to something more accurate like "Current State of the Animals Chernobyl’s Fallout Zone".
Re:Do Animals in Chernobyl’s Fallout Zone Glow?
by dos1 on Monday January 21, 2013 @10:10AM
(#5091772)
This is the money quote:
>The prevailing scientific view of the exclusion zone has become that it is an unintentional wildlife sanctuary. This conclusion rests on the premise that radiation is less harmful to wildlife populations than we are.
I don't consider myself an environmentally focused person, but the effects humans have on the ecosystem cannot be overstated. I'm not saying the effects are negative or positive, just that we as a species need to be very cognizant of the changes we cause, and we need to think critically about what ramifications those changes have.
Re:Do Animals in Chernobyl’s Fallout Zone Glow?
by stevoski on Monday January 21, 2013 @11:50AM
(#5092241)
Species that have much lower lifespans than humans are less likely to develop cancer in their lifetimes. These species particularly benefit from the lack of humans around Chernobyl more than they suffer from the high radiation.
Re:Do Animals in Chernobyl’s Fallout Zone Glow?
by mikeash on Monday January 21, 2013 @12:41PM
(#5092581)
Animals are a lot more tolerant of death and mayhem, too. For example, if radiation caused e.g. a 10% incidence of horrible birth defects, a lot of animal populations could survive that just fine, but humans would be horrified at the very idea.
Re:Do Animals in Chernobyl’s Fallout Zone Glow?
by mikeash on Monday January 21, 2013 @09:23PM
(#5095148)
We "deal with it" in the sense that we can survive and even thrive in such an environment. But we don't "deal with it just fine" in terms of accepting it when we could easily change it by e.g. avoiding a particular area.
It made me wonder if this is what European waterways were generally like before us humans fished and fished and fished and polluted the Rhine, Danube, Volga, Dnieper, and other major European rivers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Białowieża_Forest
"Biomass overgrowth of lakes and annual blue-green algae bloom as a result of eutrophication has reduced the overall use of water resources as seen from a point of recreational and leisure use. Also fish stocks have changed so that less valuable fish dominate at the cost of valuable fish like salmon and trout. Selective fishing is an effective way to reduce the overgrowth of less valuable fish populations and at the same time reduce eutrophication of water bodies." http://www.hoitokalastus.com/hoitokalastus_en.html
I.e. they require certain amount of fishing to remain useful in that regard.
Some old reports:
Wildlife preserve not scientifically justified (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/6946210.stm)
Significant impact on biodiversity and population numbers (but also that this is a polarised debate) (http://www.bbc.co.uk/nature/14250489)
Chernobyl birds have small brains (http://news.bbc.co.uk/earth/hi/earth_news/newsid_9387000/938...)
Insect decline (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7949314.stm)
So at relatively high levels of radiation you could well see that individual organisms tend to do well enough but have children with more birth defects, are more frail, have their vision deteriorate faster, etc.
I'm not sure that the radiation levels even in the Chernobyl exclusion zone are high enough for that, necessarily, but there's unfortunately a pretty wide gulf between "no effect" and developing cancer.
Not only that but when an animal has a shorter life-span due to radiation where do the effects show up? Its not showing in the population increase as the dying happens after the animal has given its maximum number of offspring as the study is studying long-term radiation effects from long-term radiation.
But no, they don't glow, quite the opposite (they absorb a wide range of electromagnetic frequencies to its internal use).
I like thinking about those natural anomalies that you know some brilliant mind will attempt to mimic with technology, and that is one function that could have serious potential.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiotrophic_fungus
It's an interesting thought that our future Buzz Aldrins and Neil Armstrongs may be sustained by a diet of radioactive mushrooms. That sounds like a Marvel origin story.
[x] The funguses inside Chernovil are surely radioactive because they also absorb the water that is contaminated with radioactive elements. Don't eat them :).
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S.T.A.L.K.E.R.:_Shadow_of_Chern...
>The prevailing scientific view of the exclusion zone has become that it is an unintentional wildlife sanctuary. This conclusion rests on the premise that radiation is less harmful to wildlife populations than we are.
I don't consider myself an environmentally focused person, but the effects humans have on the ecosystem cannot be overstated. I'm not saying the effects are negative or positive, just that we as a species need to be very cognizant of the changes we cause, and we need to think critically about what ramifications those changes have.
Edit: http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/sep/06/wildlife-h...
'Being horrified' is not a credible threat to survival.
In fact, in both cases the affected individuals of any species will die and the rest will go on.