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Re:Smart home devices should work without the internet by mountain_peak on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @12:18PM (#50443286)
Bought our home almost 20 years ago, and the former owner (apparently) owned a now-defunct home automation business. The upside was 100% X10/Insteon power and light controls, top alarm panel, environmental controls and so on running off of a wall-mounted "SmartLinc" touch panel. I expanded the system with Axis cameras and a Mac Server running Indigo and SecuritySpy (non-subscription), which enabled remote monitoring and control, but it all operates locally.

In a moment of weakness, I bought a D-Link wireless (wifi) water detector for the sump pit (it was on clearance for $30); it relied on a D-Link Home cloud service (free) that was closed down a few years ago.

Not wanting to toss it, I repurposed a spare Chromebook 14 that I was going to recycle and turned it into a Alpine monitor for the water detector, which I'm powering from the Chromebook's USB port (if power is lost in a rainstorm, I need to know about it before the sump pit fills up).

An immediate issue was that the D-Link firmware tried to "phone home" every 24 hours and would drop from the local network, since the server was kaput, and I had no clue what response it was expecting from the server to keep it alive. Solution; "reboot" the unit by interrupting USB power (with a Pico and MOSFET) every 23 hours. There's no question that home automation should work without the internet.

Re:Smart home devices should work without the internet by nekooooo on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @12:34PM (#50443459)
every single sentence was a level of jank that i could never imagine subjecting my parents to.
Re:Smart home devices should work without the internet by mountain_peak on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @01:23PM (#50444144)
The neat thing about X10 and Insteon is that everything acts "normally" at the device level, but you can program everything (remotely?) via the Indigo server. Your parents wouldn't even have to know that their house was running schedules (except for lights turning on an off).

If you're referring to the water sensor, it's definitely not parent-friendly, but I sometimes have to bail water during power outages from thunderstorms. It has to work during a power outage and an old Chromebook was cheaper than a UPS.

I kind of ran out of time for messing around with the sensor, but I did think of either dumping the Winbond chip on my reader, or using a .bin file that was used for OTA updates and pushing a modified version down locally.

That likely would have been "cleaner" vs. a 23-hour reboot cycle. I likely would have wanted a dump first in case I borked the firmware. The Python monitoring script just uses standard HNAP to read status codes from the sensor in 30 second intervals - I think there's some way to push updates via HNAP as well.

Thanks for the reminder - may be a good project for winter, when there's no chance of needing the sump.

Re:Smart home devices should work without the internet by pj_mukh on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @12:48PM (#50443638)
<the-rock-applauding.gif>
Re:Smart home devices should work without the internet by mmmlinux on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @12:49PM (#50443652)
Here's what you do. Skip the detector, Just put the whole laptop in there. when it goes offline, You have water in the sump.
Re:Smart home devices should work without the internet by JoshTriplett on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @12:56PM (#50443732)
Very much in the spirit of the "weather stone": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weather_rock
Re:Smart home devices should work without the internet by goodmythical on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @01:16PM (#50444024)
I haven't figured out how to recieve pings from my weather stone, I've always got to get up and look out the window, which, then I can just see the weather.

Anyone made any progress on rooting it?

Re:Smart home devices should work without the internet by bee_rider on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @01:44PM (#50444426)
You don’t need to root your weather stone. You’ll want to root your weather tree. Rooted weather trees give you better long term data (if the tree is flourishing, the weather was nice all season). Unrooted weather trees just let you know if it was raining in the last couple days (still an upgrade over a weather stone, but not by much).
Re:Smart home devices should work without the internet by wafflemaker on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @01:49PM (#50444487)
To root it you need the special USB version, called USB pet stone.

You can then flash new firmware over USB.

Re:Smart home devices should work without the internet by subscribed on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @02:32PM (#50445117)
Just shine a laser on it?
Re:Smart home devices should work without the internet by Uncle_Brumpus on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @01:21PM (#50444120)
"...And so that's how I ended up with a $14,000 basement repair. Yup, those damn chromebooks are more waterproof than you'd think! I mean it makes sense, they're designed to be vomited on by children all day at school."
Re:Smart home devices should work without the internet by knodi123 on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @02:48PM (#50445373)
Anyone can build a working sump flood detector. But it takes a real engineer to build one that can detect two floods.
Re:Smart home devices should work without the internet by jandrese on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @12:58PM (#50443765)
Every cloud service will eventually get shut down. The problem is that nobody wants to put the effort into reverse engineering the product to fake out the cloud service until after the cloud service is gone and the reverse engineering is much more difficult.
Re:Smart home devices should work without the internet by toomuchtodo on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @01:03PM (#50443853)
Reverse engineer anything with agents, from app behavior down to native binaries - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=50058850 - October 2026

https://github.com/morluto/rea

https://rea.tools

Do we just need to establish bounties per cloud service target to reverse engineer and publish a spec, copyleft code, and reference architecture? Maybe https://www.fulu.org/ could host the results?

Re:Smart home devices should work without the internet by bombcar on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @03:02PM (#50445527)
The good news is the fine friends at eMudhra have decided to help us!
Re:Smart home devices should work without the internet by lakeviewterrace on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @01:09PM (#50443924)
I don't like the idea of a Chromebook sitting between me and knowing my cellar is going to flood.
Re:Smart home devices should work without the internet by alamortsubite on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @01:29PM (#50444233)
I have a Dell Chromebook that's been running (Debian) without issue (battery removed) in a similar capacity for over a decade, and four more that have been up for the last five years. The former I bought new, the latter are all second-hand survivors from some public school program. They're solid.
Re:Smart home devices should work without the internet by _heimdall on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @01:38PM (#50444336)
My personal preferred infra there would be for all devices to be meshed together, and a smart water shutoff valve able to cut off automatically if a water leak sensor trips.
Re:Smart home devices should work without the internet by Loughla on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @01:58PM (#50444619)
I installed a water siphon backup for the sump pump. It creates a water siphon if the level gets above the electric sump and drains the pit. Is basic plumbing to install. Other than wasting a half gallon for every 20 gallons pumped out, it doesn't really on any technology nonsense.
Re:Smart home devices should work without the internet by tadfisher on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @02:08PM (#50444763)
It's better than nothing sitting between you and knowing your cellar is flooding, and I could think of worse solutions than a device with a built-in UPS that's capable of powering a sensor.
Re:Smart home devices should work without the internet by iAMkenough on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @02:25PM (#50445015)
Do older Chromebooks not carry the spicy pillow risk MacBooks have when plugged in 24/7?
Re:Smart home devices should work without the internet by jkukul on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @02:32PM (#50445118)
especially if you keep your Chromebook in the cellar ;)

but isn't the alternative to have some third party on the Internet sitting between you and knowing that your cellar is flooding? third party services in the cloud have downtimes (not necessarily less than your Chromebook), tend to shut down entirely over time, tend to give up on you if you're not on a premium plan, tend to stop supporting the version of your device, etc

Re:Smart home devices should work without the internet by fusslo on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @01:43PM (#50444406)
I recently had a similar issue. But instead I decided to go with industrial controls. I bought a Contactor with a NC and NO connections. I put a float switch in series with the activator coil circuit. So when the float triggers: NC->O and NO-C, which turns off the water and turns on the pump.

Contactors are built to run giant industrial motors for years, nevermind my little 1/4hp pump.

The way I built it lets my mother bypass it by unplugging the pump from the control box and plugging it right into the wall outlet.

So, hopefully it lasts years. If it doesnt, anyone can bypass it

Re:Smart home devices should work without the internet by ocdtrekkie on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @01:46PM (#50444447)
Insteon remains incredibly solid. The new company is super slow with new product because it's tiny, but the hardware remains incredibly good long-term. It doesn't clutter common wireless bands and by nature of being stupid, Insteon devices cannot really be hacked.

My rules for home automation are largely the same as the article, first and foremost the existing physical UX of switches and stuff should always work, and ideally automations should be nearly invisible: They should subtly be convenient and monitoring should be useful, but nobody should be confronted with a weird change of lifestyle because a house has automation. And nobody should ever need an app to use their house.

Re:Smart home devices should work without the internet by pcdoodle1 on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @02:45PM (#50445319)
They can also develop 1 to 1 relationships before a controller is even introduced. If I turn on my kitchen lights, the living room turns on to 50% without any controller, they talk amongst themselves over PowerLine and RF. Great 20 year old tech that's still relevant IMO.
Re:Smart home devices should work without the internet by knodi123 on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @02:46PM (#50445344)
> Solution; "reboot" the unit by interrupting USB power (with a Pico and MOSFET) every 23 hours

Reminds me of a possible apocryphal anecdote I heard about Alan Turing. He loved going on long bike rides, but one day his bike developed a distressing habit of slipping the chain. After the third time it happened, he realized it was due to a broken tooth on both the front and the back gear. He went back home and calculated how many revolutions of the pedals it would take for both broken teeth to line up when they were at the critical part of the rotation, and he built a little mechanical counter that would click on each link in the bike chain, and at the calculated time, a little arm would reach down and clasp the chain, holding it in place long enough for the teeth to re-engage.

He showed the device to his friend, who said "Why didn't you just buy new gears? You could have gotten both for a dime." And Alan replied "Oh, that's clever, I didn't think of that."