News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:I'm Not Convinced the AI Bubble Exists by CoolestBeans on Monday November 09, 2026 @12:33AM (#50421445)
- revenue growth at Anthropic slowing

- margins shrinking at Anthropic

- Google getting thwacked by missed earnings

- OpenAI missing funding target

- price war

- Microsoft revising capex projections down

- Plateauing of model capability improvement

What's weird to me is that you don't see a lot of people making deals that seem way too good to be true but yet the total numbers are absolutely gigantic. Throw on the fact that the stranded assets will have a shelf life, it really seems terrifying. Yet everything is being priced as pretty darn risky. I think maybe there can be a big slowdown without a dramatic pop. A sort of grind down. But there's not a lot of room for error to prevent a pop so I guess it will happen? I don't know its very weird.

Also of course this is all predicated on models not making another dramatic leap. The signals out of the cutting edge labs don't really suggest they have a model that would be as dramatic of a leap as Mythos was when it came out in the hopper. Their code quality seems about as mediocre as what the publicly available models can do. The OpenAI math results are very impressive but that's ripe picking for AI. Also they keep talking about a coordinated training slowdown which is textbook antitrust so they seem to want the government to force their hands off the "spend money on R&D" button.

So I don't really know. I guess I would say purely on vibes that this doesn't feel like a bubble but the size of the build out is just so massive that there really isn't a big window for a success case.

Re:I'm Not Convinced the AI Bubble Exists by gniv on Monday November 09, 2026 @01:33AM (#50421859)
To me these are arguments _against_ the bubble popping. The market reacted to all these signals. The semis took the brunt of it but even there it wasn't really dramatic. These are signs of a relatively healthy environment.
Re:I'm Not Convinced the AI Bubble Exists by Fnoord on Monday November 09, 2026 @04:32AM (#50423239)
[delayed]
Re:I'm Not Convinced the AI Bubble Exists by wyager on Monday November 09, 2026 @01:53AM (#50421986)
> Plateauing of model capability improvement

On what are you possibly basing this? The fact that there hasn't been a new model release in 6 weeks?

Re:I'm Not Convinced the AI Bubble Exists by grey-area on Monday November 09, 2026 @02:54AM (#50422449)
In the 6 months, have the models become significantly more capable?
Re:I'm Not Convinced the AI Bubble Exists by Aeolos on Monday November 09, 2026 @03:00AM (#50422506)
Yes, without a question. Fable 5 and Opus 5.5 are a step-change above what we had before. On the open-weights side, GLM 5.3, DeepSeek 4.1 v1017, Qwen3.8-Flash-Next are all significantly more capable in basically any task you can give them.

You can now have a model work on a task non-stop for a day or more. This was unthinkable 12 months ago, and unstable 6 months ago.

If you are searching for evidence of capability, just look at the amount of projects, blog posts and videos on game remixes, hardware reverse engineering, new compilers and runtimes that has started coming out in the last 6 months. Slop? Sure, but this kind of slop didn't exist at this level 6 or 12 months ago.

Re:I'm Not Convinced the AI Bubble Exists by grey-area on Monday November 09, 2026 @03:39AM (#50422790)
And yet we have to contrast that with reports like this of model capability falling:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=50422069

It's really very hard to pin down progress in this domain, companies are definitely targetting benchmarks.

One bit of evidence I would look at is the maths results this last year which have been impressive, that was a huge expensive brute force effort, but it is still good progress.

Re:I'm Not Convinced the AI Bubble Exists by pixelstack on Monday November 09, 2026 @04:04AM (#50423000)
i am wondering in what potential world would average user or even business user require for model to work on a task for more than a couple of hours? Is assumption that models on average are used to build nextt SpaceX or something?
Re:I'm Not Convinced the AI Bubble Exists by yladiz on Monday November 09, 2026 @05:18AM (#50423624)
Are you certain this is a model improvement and not improvements to agents?
Re:I'm Not Convinced the AI Bubble Exists by origini on Monday November 09, 2026 @04:08AM (#50423036)
For me personally? yes absoluttly.

Opus 5 vs. 5.5 is a clear stepup.

Problem is, you need to do a diverse set of experiments to recognize it. Blender support got relevant better,t he amount of corrections got less etc.

Re:I'm Not Convinced the AI Bubble Exists by grey-area on Monday November 09, 2026 @04:41AM (#50423300)
It does very much vary with the domain though. I haven't personally noticed much improvement, they're still useful but unreliable, in my view the idea of agents, harnesses etc has been a distraction and functions to cover up the lack of progress in the underlying models.

But everyone has a different view of this, it'll be interesting to see how it plays out.

Re:I'm Not Convinced the AI Bubble Exists by origini on Monday November 09, 2026 @05:48AM (#50423833)
In some YT talk it was explained quite well: AI is not just progressing in one field, its progressing in a lot of fields in parallel.

Before Opus 5.0, anything with 3d was not doable at all. Starting with Opus 5, it can build you cloth simulators and more.

Re:I'm Not Convinced the AI Bubble Exists by svieira on Monday November 09, 2026 @08:22AM (#50425256)
Yes, but what's interesting here is that everything didn't get better. The original "interesting" for transformers was that a translation AI turned out to also be good at generating novel prose. But if we now need to focus to train new capabilities into the models and those don't yield better behavior everywhere then we're no longer in the "free lunch" period of LLMs.
Re:I'm Not Convinced the AI Bubble Exists by origini on Monday November 09, 2026 @03:51PM (#50431932)
I think we will need a timeframe of at least a year to see if we reached any plateu.

But I do expect a combination of fast progress to continue alone due to the fact that hardware will catch up and will be faster.

And when we reached a real bottleneck, the next thing will be to put the frontier model on a chip and advancing world models and other architectures.

We are still 'just' steamrolling LLMs.

Re:I'm Not Convinced the AI Bubble Exists by bigmadshoe on Monday November 09, 2026 @09:03AM (#50425765)
I took a six month break from AI coding after leaving my startup and just restarted this week. I feel like Opus 5.5 is a step function improvement from 4.5 or 5, which I built a large codebase with.

Opus 5.5 is capable of completing very long running tasks and managing many threads of work with subagents without getting confused in a way that simply wasn't possible before.

Re:I'm Not Convinced the AI Bubble Exists by frogulis on Monday November 09, 2026 @02:37AM (#50422328)
> margins shrinking at Anthropic

Why is this? Competing on price, or compute somehow getting more expensive?

Re:I'm Not Convinced the AI Bubble Exists by littlecranky67 on Monday November 09, 2026 @02:44AM (#50422373)
Competing with chinese open-weight model which can run openly or on independent providers. Once the temporary hardware shock is over and becomes more easily available, there will be tons of independent inference providers hosting open-weight models. And I suspect we will see dozens of custom, niche distilations from open-weight models being offered by smaller groups.

Anthropic has no value proposition - just being 3-6months ahead in frontier models vs. open-weight doesn't justify trilion dollar valuation.

Re:I'm Not Convinced the AI Bubble Exists by Grombobulous on Monday November 09, 2026 @07:10AM (#50424513)
People keep saying this about open weight models but I haven’t heard of any real companies any of my friends work at willing to switch over to them.

My company buys Claude because it’s a trusted name with a user-friendly interface and integrations with a lot of business apps.

This “open weight models will take over based on price” is analogous saying that Linux and LibreOfficr will displace Windows and Microsoft Office in the workplace because they’re drastically cheaper.

Another analogy is that people talk a lot about the resurgence of audio CDs, but if you look at sales numbers it’s about 4% of peak audio CD sales from the year 2000. Sometimes in society a trend is more that people keep saying that a trend is happening rather than a trend is really happening.

Re:I'm Not Convinced the AI Bubble Exists by rglover on Monday November 09, 2026 @09:48AM (#50426397)
I went from using Anthropic via API daily to using Kimi K3 (now 3.1 pro) daily, only going back to Anthropic when a refactor is too much for Kimi to handle (once in a month's worth of work).

That surprised me. I didn't expect K3 to be as good as it was and now with 3.1, it's clear (imo) that the gap is closing. Anthropic still has a minor edge but from the 'feel' of these open models, that gap is negligible, not a moat.

Re:I'm Not Convinced the AI Bubble Exists by strix_varius on Monday November 09, 2026 @10:26AM (#50426926)
> This “open weight models will take over based on price” is analogous saying that Linux and LibreOfficr will displace Windows and Microsoft Office in the workplace because they’re drastically cheaper.

You can't just literally drop LibreOffice into an organization and have it automatically and seamlessly work.

LLMs are, definitionally, fungible. Their input is tokens. Their output is tokens. They have minor variations in chat templates and can be trained to perform better in a particular harness (like training GPT in Codex).

Do you or your friends at work use redis? Postgres? Are they hosted at "Redis Inc" and "Postgres Inc"? No, they're commodities hosted at a huge number of places.

Re:I'm Not Convinced the AI Bubble Exists by diehunde on Monday November 09, 2026 @11:12AM (#50427524)
They don't need to "switch" over to them. They just need to stop using frontier models for everything. And I can assure you most big tech companies are already deploying open-weight models and telling their employees to use them more.
Re:I'm Not Convinced the AI Bubble Exists by girvo on Monday November 09, 2026 @09:08PM (#50435204)
The very big company I work for has recently started serving open weight models for us to use. Take that for what you will.
Re:I'm Not Convinced the AI Bubble Exists by mike_hearn on Monday November 09, 2026 @04:18AM (#50423119)
The first. There have been massive waves of price cuts in Q3. OpenAI and Anthropic keep slashing prices to take market share from each other, it seems.
Re:I'm Not Convinced the AI Bubble Exists by Schlagbohrer on Monday November 09, 2026 @03:01AM (#50422512)
Even Anthropic is having their most recent debt priced at 10% interest. Wall Street is seeing them as pretty high risk.
Re:I'm Not Convinced the AI Bubble Exists by Grombobulous on Monday November 09, 2026 @07:08AM (#50424489)
The 10-year treasury yield is about 5%, national average 30-year fixed home mortgage is about 7.2%.

In that context I don’t think I’d describe 10% as “high risk.”

Re:I'm Not Convinced the AI Bubble Exists by javcasas on Monday November 09, 2026 @08:21AM (#50425227)
Well, this website https://usinterestrates.com/corporate-bond-yields says that currently, B-grade bonds go at around 8.5%. So bonds paying 10% would be below B, pretty much in junk bond territory https://www.investopedia.com/terms/j/junkbond.asp .

So maybe it's not high risk enough for you, but it is definitely high risk enough for the market.

But the best approach is just comparing rates. Go to https://archive.epa.gov/epawaste/nonhaz/municipal/web/pdf/bo... , and you will see a huge list of companies whose bonds are classified by armies of analysts as "less risky" than these 10% Anthropic bonds. Is Anthropic less risky than AT&T, or BP, or Firestone Tire & Rubber Co? The market says "no".

Re:I'm Not Convinced the AI Bubble Exists by iLoveOncall on Monday November 09, 2026 @09:49AM (#50426417)
This isn't even speculations, Blackstone has said that Anthropic will literally be in the "junk" category: https://www.ft.com/content/59383c7f-8d82-493f-bf01-d2e862a10...
Re:I'm Not Convinced the AI Bubble Exists by blini-kot on Monday November 09, 2026 @08:53AM (#50425614)
and you'd be thus mistaken

currently US long term bonds have very low yield and are being issued less as usual buyers move to gold/stock -- trust in US gov. has eroded especially in fiscal matters. The budget keeps growing, interest rates are still too low to combat inflation and debt is ever-expanding, without drastic measures taken to stabilize the situation: thus, high bond yield - we pay you premium to have at least someone buy it due to trustworthiness not being the sole attractor anymore

Re:I'm Not Convinced the AI Bubble Exists by CoolestBeans on Monday November 09, 2026 @11:39AM (#50427968)
Indices are putting high yield at about 8% right now. More importantly lenders are asking Anthropic for higher yields than they were months ago meaning they're headed in wrong direction quick.
Re:I'm Not Convinced the AI Bubble Exists by elliotthill on Monday November 09, 2026 @12:17PM (#50428470)
At a 10% yield, depending on the maturity profile, it is well into "junk" territory and represents nearly a 8-9% bankruptcy risk annually.

Recently CoreWeave's bond yields spiked to 16% which represent an 18.8% probability of default per year.

Re:I'm Not Convinced the AI Bubble Exists by iLoveOncall on Monday November 09, 2026 @04:40AM (#50423294)
> What's weird to me is that you don't see a lot of people making deals that seem way too good to be true

You gotta be kidding. HuggingFace, a website to download files, was sold for 13B.

Re:I'm Not Convinced the AI Bubble Exists by hmontazeri on Monday November 09, 2026 @05:04AM (#50423497)
haha thank you :D
Re:I'm Not Convinced the AI Bubble Exists by bandrami on Monday November 09, 2026 @05:10AM (#50423554)
> stranded assets will have a shelf life

This is what keeps me up at night. That fiber that got overbuilt in 1999 is still there spitting photons. That Vera Rubin gathering dust on a shelf will be a paperweight in 5 years.

Re:I'm Not Convinced the AI Bubble Exists by uejfiweun on Monday November 09, 2026 @01:10PM (#50429200)
Can you help me understand WHY though? It's not like the chips mysteriously break. They can serve the current-gen models, which are useful, and will continue to be useful.
Re:I'm Not Convinced the AI Bubble Exists by bandrami on Monday November 09, 2026 @07:30PM (#50434472)
Two pressures:

1. Open source models lag frontier models in capability by about 2-3 quarters

2. New frontier models get optimized for the next generation of GPUs

So the GPUs are left being only able to serve either obsolete or open source models, which in either case makes them significantly less valuable.

(And then of course once they start running they last at best 4 years)