> Why not bring massive energy storage and nuclear plants online?

I'd argue there's more ecologically sound ways to supply the desired energy demand in combination with shifting some of the load away from peak times. I don't think that strictly correlates to "a lower standard of living" so much as "there's minor behavioral changes that would more efficiently use existing resources."

> Making peoples lives worse to save money

This is exactly the mentality that I'm surprised by: I suggest shifting high energy use slightly and your reaction is "that will make my life worse." Would it really have a strong negative impact on your life to run your dryer overnight for your towels/sheets/whatever if it meant 50% cheaper power?

>Would it really have a strong negative impact on your life to run your dryer overnight

In a london flat we rented, the washer-dryer was in a cupboard in the bedroom. So yes. At least it had one.

> Would it really have a strong negative impact on your life to run your dryer overnight

Absolutely. That thing is loud.

Finally a reasonable objection.

What if manufacturers developed quieter dryers?

If you live in a small house or condo it's still going to be loud enough to wake you up in the middle of the night when it starts. It's a bit more difficult than making a quiet dishwasher (which I'd still find too loud to start running in the middle of the night) since a dryer has to move a bunch of heavy, wet clothing around and run a fairly strong fan to avoid starting a fire.

Time of use plans generally have lower rates starting late evening. There's no reason to run the dryer or dishwasher in the literal middle of the night. An hour before most people's bedtimes will still be during a lower tariff period.

According to https://www.energysage.com/electricity/whats-the-cheapest-ti... 9pm - 6am is common in the US. Hardly anyone is in bed by 9pm.

In the UK it's 10pm - 5am or midnight-7am, depending on your plan. https://uk.jackery.com/blogs/knowledge/when-is-off-peak-elec.... But there's also a mid-day slot 1pm-3pm which can work if your dryer can be timed.

You can also dry heavy items on a folding rack so the dryer doesn't run as long.

Seems weird. Dishwashers, clothes washers and dryers are the epitome of "white noise" to me. I love sleeping with those things, drowning out all annoying noises and ensconcing me in a pleasant ocean of peaceful wooshes.

The last time I had in-unit W/D, it was right outside my bedroom. Never bothered me in the least. Certainly not compared to the neighbors' dogs, pot-smoking, screaming arguments, etc.

Fair enough

That's a pretty solvable problem, since we're spending money to solve problems.

Today's leftists seem to not have any coherent philosophy at all. It's not better on the other side. Everything seems to be about grievances and assigning blame rather than rationally discussing practical solutions.

There's a significant misanthropic sentiment on the left stemming from, among other things, the mid-century environmental movement. It creates for a maddening incoherency, but I guess that's typical of all politics at scale.

The misanthropy is infused in popular culture, and specifically in the way ecological sciences and history (for additional reasons) is taught in schools. I not infrequently have to discuss this with my kids when they recite something they've learned in school and I can hear the misanthropic cynicism in the framing and intonation.

It's quite eccentric to suggest the left is misanthropic when the right majors in racism, violence, short-sighted selfishness, and contempt for the weak, poor, and unusual - none of which are particularly humanitarian.

Making your own planet less ecologically stable is certainly an interesting choice, but probably not the best long-term bet for anyone's kids.

This particular misanthropy does not seem to have a particularly strong affinity for either conservative or progressive groups; it is an opportunistic predator that attacks the weak and stupid in both camps, and has for generations.

Be wary of anyone who argues the poor should go without food or protection from the elements, regardless of what flimsy justification they give for their cruelty; the most dangerous to each of us are those who appeal to our own beliefs.

Sure if they're actually saying the poor should go without and that's not a dumb strawman. The idea of consuming too much isn't usually focused on the poor.

Only idiots think their kid, the teachers, ecological scientists, and the culture are all wrong and only you what’s right.

Especially when you’re maddened about incoherencies that are merely the manifestation of the inherent entropy of our world!

That is definitely the impression one would get if one watched Fox News.

If one consumed nonfiction media one might get a different impression.

bro there are degrowth austerity leftists posting in this thread right now, it's not a Fox News caricature

Y’all are equally incomprehensible to us. Drastically reduced immigration, ineffective policies for incentivizing pregnancy, and no cash incentives for having multiple children (the one intervention that has been found to have a real, albeit modest impact on TFR). Degrowth under those conditions is all but certain.

Trump and doge once fired all the nuclear inspectors.

Building expensive power sources (nuclear) is inevitably going to result in raised electrical rates for the working class.