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Re:Modern Object Pascal Introduction for Programmers – Castl... by baranul on Saturday September 26, 2026 @09:38AM (#49856441)
It's amazing how underestimated the Object Pascal language is. Certain people or rivals want to write it off or declare it's "dead", yet the language (including various dialects) are still going strong.
Re:Modern Object Pascal Introduction for Programmers – Castl... by pjmlp on Saturday September 26, 2026 @09:43AM (#49856482)
Yeah, it was pity that Borland lost its way, and Apple decided to refocus from Object Pascal into C++.

Otherwise it would still be a big contender.

Everything that Zig offers over C as selling point was already there in Object Pascal.

Re:Modern Object Pascal Introduction for Programmers – Castl... by sehugg on Saturday September 26, 2026 @11:19AM (#49857401)
I recall the turning point was when id used the Watcom compiler for DOOM. Watcom had the 32-bit flat model DOS extender and were starting to add the difficult optimizations. Turbo/Borland Pascal was built for compile and link speed, not even getting a real -O option until Delphi (except for turning off range and stack checking)
Re:Modern Object Pascal Introduction for Programmers – Castl... by pjmlp on Saturday September 26, 2026 @11:23AM (#49857439)
Turbo Pascal 7 had them as well.
Re:Modern Object Pascal Introduction for Programmers – Castl... by ape4 on Saturday September 26, 2026 @11:12AM (#49857337)
If I remember right, it was memory safe - something C/C++ has yet to achieve.
Re:Modern Object Pascal Introduction for Programmers – Castl... by pjmlp on Saturday September 26, 2026 @11:24AM (#49857443)
Even PL/I, JOVIAL, and NEWP on the decade predating C had it.
Re:Modern Object Pascal Introduction for Programmers – Castl... by cyberax on Saturday September 26, 2026 @04:42PM (#49860348)
It was not. It just made any dynamic structures so painful that few programmers used them.

But it _did_ have range checks for array access.

Re:Modern Object Pascal Introduction for Programmers – Castl... by cisc on Saturday September 26, 2026 @05:11PM (#49860586)
> It just made any dynamic structures so painful that few programmers used them

What's an example of the pain?

Re:Modern Object Pascal Introduction for Programmers – Castl... by cyberax on Saturday September 26, 2026 @06:08PM (#49860991)
Awkward syntax for pointer access, for one thing.
Re:Modern Object Pascal Introduction for Programmers – Castl... by cisc on Saturday September 26, 2026 @06:15PM (#49861054)
Re:Modern Object Pascal Introduction for Programmers – Castl... by cyberax on Saturday September 26, 2026 @06:27PM (#49861155)
You need to dereference pointer to access the structure fields, for example.
Re:Modern Object Pascal Introduction for Programmers – Castl... by cisc on Saturday September 26, 2026 @06:56PM (#49861373)
Nope, you don't need to. For example, all class references are pointers and they don't need to be dereferenced manually.

Object Pascal's pointer syntax is detailed in the links I gave you.

Re:Modern Object Pascal Introduction for Programmers – Castl... by cyberax on Sunday September 27, 2026 @02:56PM (#49869694)
This is the modern Object Pascal. Here's the Turbo Pascal syntax: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object_Pascal#Heap_based_alloc... - if we're comparing something that was around the same time as C++.
Re:Modern Object Pascal Introduction for Programmers – Castl... by pjmlp on Monday September 28, 2026 @03:02AM (#49874523)
So your point is having to write ptr^.val instead of either (*ptr).val, or ptr->val?
Re:Modern Object Pascal Introduction for Programmers – Castl... by applfanboysbgon on Saturday September 26, 2026 @10:06AM (#49856690)
Comptime? Vastly superior toolchain? Trivial C interop? Sub-second incremental compilation in large projects? I'm not familiar with Object Pascal at all, so do correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd really be surprised if it has much of Zig's standout features.
Re:Modern Object Pascal Introduction for Programmers – Castl... by lelanthran on Saturday September 26, 2026 @10:35AM (#49856993)
> Comptime? Vastly superior toolchain? Trivial C interop? Sub-second incremental compilation in large projects?

No comptime, but everything else, sure, Turbo Pascal (and then Delphi) had.

Maybe it'll blow your mind (not sure if you find this impressive or not), but Turbo Pascal had sub-second compilation per module on large modules back on my 486 with 4MB of RAM.

Sure, Zig has more features than Pascal, but not the ones you listed (except, of course, for comptime).

Re:Modern Object Pascal Introduction for Programmers – Castl... by andsoitis on Saturday September 26, 2026 @10:50AM (#49857146)
> (and then Delphi) had.

And still does. You can get the latest version of Delphi (including a free version for non-commercial use) here: https://www.embarcadero.com/products/delphi

It rocks.

You're also not limited to Delphi. You can use Oxygene https://www.remobjects.com/elements/oxygene/language

Re:Modern Object Pascal Introduction for Programmers – Castl... by lelanthran on Saturday September 26, 2026 @12:39PM (#49858175)
> You're also not limited to Delphi. You can use Oxygene https://www.remobjects.com/elements/oxygene/language

If you're not in the mood to rent your compiler, you can also try Lazarus.

Re:Modern Object Pascal Introduction for Programmers – Castl... by andsoitis on Saturday September 26, 2026 @12:53PM (#49858333)
Sure. The rent does give you polish, however.

Also, for non-commercial use, Delphi is free.

Re:Modern Object Pascal Introduction for Programmers – Castl... by pjmlp on Saturday September 26, 2026 @10:23AM (#49856866)
Comptime is the only thing going for it.

Object Pascal compilers were already super fast in MS-DOS hardware!

Re:Modern Object Pascal Introduction for Programmers – Castl... by mickeyp on Saturday September 26, 2026 @12:42PM (#49858225)
Delphi would compile & link 2 MLOC of code on a crappy work laptop in 30 seconds to a minute. Incremental compiles were instant. So fast most developers never bothered learning the "go to next error" hotkey and just spammed F9 (compile & run) whenever they fixed a syntax error. It was that fast.

Trivial C interop - yes. Both pascal and cdecl style calling conventions.

Toolchain? Back then - yes. Today? Probably not; depends what you mean by it. It had perfect COM interop which mattered back then, and you could trivially link stuff if you wanted to. And people did.

Re:Modern Object Pascal Introduction for Programmers – Castl... by mldbk on Saturday September 26, 2026 @03:26PM (#49859718)
Oh my gosh! Core memories unlocked:

> most developers never bothered learning the "go to next error" hotkey and just spammed F9 (compile & run) whenever they fixed a syntax error

We didn't know we were privileged. I thought it was normal thing to have.

Re:Modern Object Pascal Introduction for Programmers – Castl... by tliltocatl on Saturday September 26, 2026 @02:35PM (#49859230)
Comptime here means not "compilation time", but rather ability to run some your code during compilation (i. e. compile-time metaprogramming). Pascal didn't had this.
Re:Modern Object Pascal Introduction for Programmers – Castl... by applfanboysbgon on Saturday September 26, 2026 @02:46PM (#49859342)
They probably know that. I specifically mentioned actual compilation time as another one of the things that's great about Zig, so it is relevant to mention. Certainly the language sounds nice from what I'm hearing. These days most languages are deeply neglecting compilation time as a feature (interpreted languages aside), so Zig is a breath of fresh air for me in that regard.
Re:Modern Object Pascal Introduction for Programmers – Castl... by klipt on Saturday September 26, 2026 @04:56PM (#49860465)
Golang is also designed to compile very fast.
Re:Modern Object Pascal Introduction for Programmers – Castl... by applfanboysbgon on Saturday September 26, 2026 @05:21PM (#49860661)
Yes, I do appreciate Go's existence as well.
Re:Modern Object Pascal Introduction for Programmers – Castl... by jan_m_savage on Sunday September 27, 2026 @02:00AM (#49863763)
Go directly is inspired by Modula-3 and Oberon-2, both are descendants from Pascal family. One of the Go's fathers was Wirth's students IIRC.
Re:Modern Object Pascal Introduction for Programmers – Castl... by pjmlp on Sunday September 27, 2026 @03:28AM (#49864236)
Oberon-2 surely, there are zero Modula-3 influences in Go.

Also Wirth had nothing to do with Modula-3, that was all DEC / Olivetti SRC work, done by ex-Xerox people with experience on Cedar and Modula-2+.

Re:Modern Object Pascal Introduction for Programmers – Castl... by jan_m_savage on Sunday September 27, 2026 @04:31AM (#49864552)
"Go is mostly in the C family (basic syntax), with significant input from the Pascal/Modula/Oberon family"

source: https://go.dev/doc/faq

Without Pascal there would be no Modula.

Re:Modern Object Pascal Introduction for Programmers – Castl... by pjmlp on Monday September 28, 2026 @03:02AM (#49874533)
Modula-3 where is it?

I do agree with Modula, which isn't the same as Modula-3.

Re:Modern Object Pascal Introduction for Programmers – Castl... by baranul on Monday September 28, 2026 @01:46AM (#49874092)
This includes some languages inspired by Golang, that have "inherited" Pascal influences, such as Vlang. There's also a focus on fast compilation and being useful for prototyping.
Re:Modern Object Pascal Introduction for Programmers – Castl... by pjmlp on Sunday September 27, 2026 @03:27AM (#49864231)
COM interop matters even more today, as COM (and WinRT as its evolution) has become the main mechanism to deliver new APIs since Windows Vista.

Ironically it is still easier in Delphi than the frameworks Microsoft keeps pouring out for .NET and C++.

I keep joking they should afford some Embarcadero licenses to learn how to actually do it.

Re:Modern Object Pascal Introduction for Programmers – Castl... by sakesun on Saturday September 26, 2026 @06:47PM (#49861311)
Object Pascal has more runtime reflection features which were added to facilitate visual programming paradigm. Do you know what can be faster than sub-second incremental compilation ? Run-time/Design-time manipulation !
Re:Modern Object Pascal Introduction for Programmers – Castl... by LoganDark on Saturday September 26, 2026 @12:33PM (#49858128)
> Apple decided to refocus from Object Pascal into C++

IIRC Apple went and made Objective-C(/C++) and then eventually Swift. Not sure if they actually embraced C++ all that much - did they really?

Re:Modern Object Pascal Introduction for Programmers – Castl... by pjmlp on Saturday September 26, 2026 @12:46PM (#49858254)
Completely off the charts.

I am talking about Apple after Jobs was kicked out.

You missed the part where NeXT licensed Objective-C from Stepstone, Apple bought NeXT as last survival action before bankruptcy, and OS X sprung out of NeXTSTEP.

Re:Modern Object Pascal Introduction for Programmers – Castl... by LoganDark on Saturday September 26, 2026 @12:56PM (#49858362)
Thanks!
Re:Modern Object Pascal Introduction for Programmers – Castl... by shevy-java on Saturday September 26, 2026 @11:11AM (#49857333)
IMO it is not entirely dead, but not really "alive" either. TIOBE even has Object Pascal mentioned right now in TOP 20. Now, TIOBE has tons of issues, but it also means that there exists some tangible interest.

Still, I don't feel many people want to use Object Pascal these days. If you have the choice between Python and Object Pascal, most people will undoubtedly use Python. It's just how it is right now, and I also don't see how that can change in favour of Object Pascal. Programming languages nowadays have so much more competition, and people are less tolerant of flaws. Strangely enough, people barely seem to work on these flaws; this is one of my pet peeve with ruby, the documentation should be much better but it is not. I no longer find that acceptable in 2026, with AI spam slop lowering the quality and google search being terrible and almost totally useless nowadays. You'd assume that a counter-move to this slop-degradation would be to massively improve documentation, but you still find core projects in ruby or at the least important add-ons, to have low-quality documentation. And barely anybody wants to improve on that either.

Re:Modern Object Pascal Introduction for Programmers – Castl... by pjmlp on Sunday September 27, 2026 @03:40AM (#49864304)
Indeed the "why bother with performance when others write code in C for us" mindset.
Re:Modern Object Pascal Introduction for Programmers – Castl... by maomao5 on Saturday September 26, 2026 @12:39PM (#49858184)
People hate the verbose syntax. It doesn't bother me, but I've been surprised how common that is described amongst people that don't care for Pascal.

Personally, in that family of languages I prefer Ada, but I gave up with programming and programming languages.

Re:Modern Object Pascal Introduction for Programmers – Castl... by Narishma on Saturday September 26, 2026 @01:11PM (#49858527)
For me it's less the verbose syntax but more the weirdness and inconsistency of it. Like making a distinction between a procedure and a function, or returning data from a function by assigning it to a magical variable. It feels like a cobbled-together language rather than a properly designed one.
Re:Modern Object Pascal Introduction for Programmers – Castl... by MaxBarraclough on Saturday September 26, 2026 @05:13PM (#49860605)
I wasn't able to find a definitive account of why they're separated in Ada, but I believe the idea is this: functions are for where code behaves in a roughly functionally pure way and yields a value that should not be discarded by the caller, whereas procs are for functionality with 'deep' side-effects.

The SPARK subset of Ada comes pretty close to enforcing purity of Ada functions, although it still permits them to read globals. [0]

It's not just an oversight. The core of the Ada language was designed deliberately. [1]

[0] https://learn.adacore.com/courses/intro-to-spark/chapters/01...

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ada_(programming_language)#His...

Re:Modern Object Pascal Introduction for Programmers – Castl... by kjs3 on Saturday September 26, 2026 @08:57PM (#49862213)
People hate the verbose syntax

People hate verbose syntax until it's about a language they like. Then suddenly "the IDE takes care of that so I don't care" or some such. With Ada in particular, if you gave up safer programming for 40 years because "ew nasty I have to type begin...end..." then I don't want to hear about your pet safe language.

Re:Modern Object Pascal Introduction for Programmers – Castl... by pjmlp on Sunday September 27, 2026 @03:39AM (#49864297)
The same people that now program in English, writing Markdown file after Markdown file?