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Re:The Free Market Lie: Why Switzerland Has 25 Gbit Internet... by thelastgallon on Sunday April 05, 2026 @09:28PM (#47655869)
Most states in America ban municipal fiber. They saw EPB (Chattanooga) and said, no, we must make sure that doesn't ever happen again. That is how 'free' market is done in US, all the rules are to make sure the richest people become richer.
Re:The Free Market Lie: Why Switzerland Has 25 Gbit Internet... by bigstrat2003 on Sunday April 05, 2026 @09:48PM (#47656033)
I agree that's a scourge. But of course, it would be very disingenuous to call that a free market. It's not free due to corporate interference, which is why the situation is so bad for consumers.
Re:The Free Market Lie: Why Switzerland Has 25 Gbit Internet... by tombert on Sunday April 05, 2026 @10:56PM (#47656464)
I think that's why they had 'free' in scare quotes.
Re:The Free Market Lie: Why Switzerland Has 25 Gbit Internet... by carefree-bob on Monday April 06, 2026 @12:26AM (#47656994)
woah, I didn't know this. How many states have laws banning municipal fiber?
Re:The Free Market Lie: Why Switzerland Has 25 Gbit Internet... by jdeibele on Monday April 06, 2026 @02:15AM (#47657517)
https://broadbandnow.com/report/municipal-broadband-roadbloc...

It’s from 2023 but says 16 to 19 states.

Re:The Free Market Lie: Why Switzerland Has 25 Gbit Internet... by m_mueller on Monday April 06, 2026 @05:49AM (#47658795)
this is insane. I guess it's that easy for telcos to lobby the legislators for keeping up their rents?
Re:The Free Market Lie: Why Switzerland Has 25 Gbit Internet... by JumpCrisscross on Monday April 06, 2026 @07:46AM (#47659674)
> guess it's that easy for telcos to lobby the legislators

16 states having restrictions while two go explicitly pro-municipal broadband doesn’t seem like a lobbyist’s panacea. Skimming the list of states with restrictions, they look like red states trying to bridle their blue cities. Partisanship seems the more-parsimonious explanation.

Re:The Free Market Lie: Why Switzerland Has 25 Gbit Internet... by m_mueller on Monday April 06, 2026 @12:40PM (#47663284)
~100 million consumers (assuming average sized states are impacted) being essentially defrauded by a cartel of telcos - doesn't really matter what you wanna call it but I'd say it's a pretty major deal.
Re:The Free Market Lie: Why Switzerland Has 25 Gbit Internet... by JumpCrisscross on Monday April 06, 2026 @06:03PM (#47667885)
> it's a pretty major deal

Never disagreed.

Re:The Free Market Lie: Why Switzerland Has 25 Gbit Internet... by shimman on Monday April 06, 2026 @12:28PM (#47663082)
You're assuming they are giving these people hundreds of thousands of dollars, they aren't. These are mostly state politicians that make between $50k-80k who rarely get a campaign donation above $10k. These corporations absolutely give them the bare minimum (seriously talking between $500 to $4k maybe), it's only federal Senators that typically make the big bucks since they have the ability to single handedly gum up the system to prevent legislation.

But yeah, it's not only easy it's very cheap. This is why you need a workers party so workers can effectively collaborate together to either primary the politician or convince them otherwise.

Oh and you can't just do this once either, it takes an entire life's worth of work and it never ends.

Re:The Free Market Lie: Why Switzerland Has 25 Gbit Internet... by m_mueller on Monday April 06, 2026 @12:36PM (#47663219)
I'd say first of all you need to put a lid on it, call this kind of thing again what it is (bribery), and make it illegal. Secondly, if someone wants a public office: pay them well (they'll still have the revolving door afterwards anyways), but all their finances will need to be published on a quarterly basis. It's not exactly rocket science, this kind of thing is implemented in many jurisdictions.
Re:The Free Market Lie: Why Switzerland Has 25 Gbit Internet... by silisili on Tuesday April 07, 2026 @12:36AM (#47670810)
Tennessee is listed, but it's only really restricting power companies from expanding outside their electric reach.

It doesn't really damper anything, Tennessee has among the highest rural FTTH coverage in the US. There are tiny companies you've never heard of running 8gbps symmetric to houses on acreage!

Re:The Free Market Lie: Why Switzerland Has 25 Gbit Internet... by art0rz on Monday April 06, 2026 @02:15AM (#47657523)
What happened on Chattanooga?
Re:The Free Market Lie: Why Switzerland Has 25 Gbit Internet... by fancyfredbot on Monday April 06, 2026 @02:24AM (#47657580)
It was apparently very successful:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EPB

Re:The Free Market Lie: Why Switzerland Has 25 Gbit Internet... by abustamam on Monday April 06, 2026 @09:28AM (#47660635)
Unfortunately too successful!
Re:The Free Market Lie: Why Switzerland Has 25 Gbit Internet... by driverdan on Monday April 06, 2026 @08:48AM (#47660236)
Resident here, it's great. EPB is the power company and internet provider. They run fiber anywhere they run power. They also have good customer service, local knowledgeable phone support, and inexpensive support services like installing ethernet drops for $50 each.
Re:The Free Market Lie: Why Switzerland Has 25 Gbit Internet... by db48x on Monday April 06, 2026 @06:50AM (#47659232)
Stop calling it a free market! These stupid rules keep it from being free.
Re:The Free Market Lie: Why Switzerland Has 25 Gbit Internet... by jjice on Monday April 06, 2026 @09:51AM (#47660940)
I believe that was the parent's point in surrounding "free" in quotes.
Re:The Free Market Lie: Why Switzerland Has 25 Gbit Internet... by justin66 on Monday April 06, 2026 @09:06AM (#47660418)
> That is how 'free' market is done in US, all the rules are to make sure the richest people become richer.

In all fairness, we put an awful lot of effort into making the poor poorer as well.

Re:The Free Market Lie: Why Switzerland Has 25 Gbit Internet... by illusive4080 on Monday April 06, 2026 @11:06AM (#47661903)
This statement is easily refuted by looking up statistics on poverty.
Re:The Free Market Lie: Why Switzerland Has 25 Gbit Internet... by eatsyourtacos on Monday April 06, 2026 @11:13AM (#47661996)
Except the definitions of poverty are defined to make it seems like it's not poverty. When you have a massive amount of the population that lives paycheck to paycheck, is one small medical emergency away from bankruptcy / can't pay their rent/mortgage. Will lose their job because of little to no protections. Very little social safety nets... most people are a lot closer to 'poverty' than looking at simple statistics.
Re:The Free Market Lie: Why Switzerland Has 25 Gbit Internet... by slibhb on Monday April 06, 2026 @12:09PM (#47662785)
Living paycheck to paycheck is usually a choice: people earn a lot of money and spend it immediately. The fact that this leaves them vulnerable to misfortune doesn't mean they're poor.
Re:The Free Market Lie: Why Switzerland Has 25 Gbit Internet... by aaarrm on Monday April 06, 2026 @12:38PM (#47663254)
While this can be true, this absolutely is not true for the majority of paycheck-to-paycheck people. You truly need to get your head out of your ass if you honestly believe this is what is causing people to be poor.
Re:The Free Market Lie: Why Switzerland Has 25 Gbit Internet... by illusive4080 on Monday April 06, 2026 @01:25PM (#47663998)
Do you know any of those people? Yes it’s almost entirely a choice. Typically a combination of poor life choices in tandem with poor financial choices.
Re:The Free Market Lie: Why Switzerland Has 25 Gbit Internet... by lymbo on Tuesday April 07, 2026 @12:27AM (#47670760)
Which coastal major city do you live in?
Re:The Free Market Lie: Why Switzerland Has 25 Gbit Internet... by illusive4080 on Tuesday April 07, 2026 @09:37AM (#47675195)
You couldn’t be more wrong about who I am. My relatives and friends are some who have made those poor choices, and neither them nor I live in a major city. The poor in America are in two major camps: inner city and rural America. Both have different reasons for economic poverty and both stem from poor choices.
Re:The Free Market Lie: Why Switzerland Has 25 Gbit Internet... by slibhb on Tuesday April 07, 2026 @02:07PM (#47679091)
The poverty rate in the US is ~10% and the percentage of workers who live paycheck-to-paycheck is ~35%. So it is true for the majority of people living paycheck-to-paycheck.
Re:The Free Market Lie: Why Switzerland Has 25 Gbit Internet... by panick21_ on Wednesday April 08, 2026 @04:29AM (#47687091)
With the insane rates of consumtion, home ownership and car ownership, it simply is a fact. Tons of people live paycheck to paycheck and call themsevles poor, when they have an 80k truck with monthly payment as high as some peoples rent. And often credit card debt with monthly payments as well.

Yes, sometimes this is medical debt or other unavoidable things. But its also true that the consumtion rate is incredibly high and the savings rate is incredibly low, with US credit card industry making it easy to create huge debts.

So its simply a fact that a huge amount of people live in self imposed risky situations. Instead of an emergency fund, they think they can just open a new credit card.

So its of course not what is causing people to be poor, but what is does is that it makes many, many more people 'living on the edge' then there should be based on their actual incomes.

Re:The Free Market Lie: Why Switzerland Has 25 Gbit Internet... by eatsyourtacos on Tuesday April 07, 2026 @12:23PM (#47677698)
Give me a break. Most people don't have any real benefits. Healthcare costs are insane. Daycare costs are insane. Rent is insane. Car costs are insane. Insurance is insane. Grocery costs are insane. Higher education costs are insane.

You sound like you are single no kids and on here with a cushy tech job and be like "those poor people just don't know how to manage their money!"

Re:The Free Market Lie: Why Switzerland Has 25 Gbit Internet... by slibhb on Tuesday April 07, 2026 @02:08PM (#47679107)
Purchasing power is up modestly over the past 25 years. This idea that everyone is struggling/poor just isn't true (though some people certainly are).
Re:The Free Market Lie: Why Switzerland Has 25 Gbit Internet... by panick21_ on Wednesday April 08, 2026 @04:50AM (#47687242)
Grocery costs are not actually that insane. Plenty of people have demonstrated that you can live a healthy diet for a 300$ a month, with some people doing it for much less.

Car costs don't have to be insane. If you are smart about buying a small second hand car. Its just a reality that almost all american insanely overspend on their cars. And even reasonably poor people refuse to use buses or public transport even in places where it is possible.

> Healthcare costs are insane. Daycare costs are insane.

A huge number of people who are both healthy and don't have kids, or don't use daycare also live paycheck to paycheck.

> "those poor people just don't know how to manage their money!"

Its simply a well document fact that people insane overspend on consumtion. There is a reason the term 'house poor' exists. US culture tells everybody you need buy a house or you are failure, and that traps a lot of people. Same for cars, the overspend on cars is insane, the amount of 'poor' people that drive F-150 is off the charts, when you could get a second hand Honda Civic for 1/3 cost.

There are 1 million+ large F-150 like trucks sold in a year in the US. And we know for a fact that many of those are sold to people who will end up having payments mich higher then the recommended monthly acccount. And we know for a fact, that most people don't need these trucks.

We also know that people who have a pattern living paycheck to paycheck very often continue to do so, even as their income increases. Partly because they life-style inflated helped by the fact that as your income grows, your ability to add debt increases as well and many people see this as an oppertunity, rather then a trap.

Changing those things doesn't turn you from poor to rich, but it would mean that instead of living on the edge paycheck to paycheck with constant use of credit cards, instead you could have no credit card, an emergency fund and a savings rate of a modest 5%. There are plenty of people you can find who do this, who are worse off in terms of income then people who live paycheck to paycheck.

Its a fair argument to make that the US make this to hard, specially for people with kids or people who are sick, but those don't account for 30%+ of the population. But to ignore all individual choice is equally silly and infantilizing. People prefering F-150 over retirment savings is just a fact of life, and its not elitist to point it out.

Re:The Free Market Lie: Why Switzerland Has 25 Gbit Internet... by illusive4080 on Monday April 06, 2026 @11:38AM (#47662329)
The definitions of poverty are used to measure relative wealth, not whether someone lives paycheck to paycheck. As income increases, paycheck to paycheck reports decrease, but at a certain point it then increases again. Living paycheck to paycheck is a poor measure, because you can buy a house that’s too expensive for your income, or a car, eat out too much, or make a variety of other poor life choices. That’s why the poverty index is good at measuring relative decreases in poverty because it ignores poor life choices.
Re:The Free Market Lie: Why Switzerland Has 25 Gbit Internet... by halapro on Monday April 06, 2026 @10:15AM (#47661228)
This is the most American shit ever. Pro-consumer regulations are rejected to the point that they start regulating against their own constituents.
Re:The Free Market Lie: Why Switzerland Has 25 Gbit Internet... by socalgal2 on Monday April 06, 2026 @12:26PM (#47663024)
good cherry picking there