I think that's apples to oranges. If we didn't have cities, we also wouldn't have eight billion people in the world.
A better question for the parent is how do you enforce that vision of everyone living on their 20 acres in harmony with nature? This is not something that capitalism or some other -ism does to us. Your neighbor will have children, these children will have children, and before long, you have a settlement of 50 people on these 20 acres, most certainly no longer living in harmony with nature. At that point, they must build infrastructure. That infrastructure may be feasible to build if they pool their resources with the neighbors. Boom, you have a village, then a town, then a city.
So what's the solution here? Do we forcibly sterilize people? Lock them up if they have children? What's the anti-growth strategy we're actually advocating for?
Could you break down the logic that leads you to this conclusion?
Im sure it's deeper than "if cities disappeared right now, a lot of people would disappear with them"
I'm sure all of this was inevitable as there likely hasn't ever been a time where humans were not getting together to form communities when it was beneficial to do so.
You don't need to. Fertility rate per woman in wealthy countries decreases every year.
Growth is natural, overconsumption is not.
Oh give me a break. Developed countries have had below-replacement fertility rates for decades.
If your goal is to reduce birth rates, we do the things that we already know do that naturally: comprehensive, fact-based sex ed; cheap and easy access to contraceptives; social safety nets and support; etc etc etc.
It's not a mystery and it's not even difficult. You don't need to jump to straight to abhorrent crimes against humanity.
Albeit I feel like OP was right on something else: his grandparents weren't heavy consumers, but that transcends city vs rural debates.
I see us modern people, except very old folks being extremely heavy consumers.
Sometime I pay attention to my friends and relatives and how much do they consume.
E.g. I spent 5 days with my mother in December at my grandmas and I've noticed that she just bought stuff non-stop, but her metric is money, not "stuff".
So, e.g., she bought a new pillow for my grandma even though my grandma didn't need/want one (she doesn't use it), bought plenty of plastic toys for her own dog, bought a set of new dishes just because the old ones were old, changed her worn phone leather case for a new one, bought plenty of Christmas lights because she didn't want to dig for the old ones she couldn't quickly find, bought some kind of table hook for purses for herself and her friends, etc, etc.
At the end of the week she didn't even spend 250 euros (her metric), so she doesn't realizes, yet, the amount of borderline useless stuff she bought was major and her ecological impact quite huge, especially for how little to none the payoff or utility is.
I had colleagues in my office, back when I was in the office, that just had Amazon packages coming every single day...And here's a smartphone holder, here's some gadget that keeps your mouse cord, here's a yet a new pedal for the drums, here's a set of pens, here's a rubber duck to talk to when debugging, etc, etc.
I mean, I have even a difficult time pointing out that there's something wrong with any of those items per se in isolation, but when it's a lifestyle of non-stop consistent consumerism I think the trend is worrying.
There's so many things that are so cheap nowadays that it's hard to say "why not?", yet they feed into this endless life style that's toxic for the planet but feeds this neverending more more and more.
The city I live in, this can be 20 different variations on onions and garlic, and cabbage passes as salad.
In reality, the laser-leveled, fully-automated, county-scale factory farm is the only reason anyone on this forum has ever experienced the phenomenon known as "free time".
However, I don't think that's the ask, here. You don't have to choose MEGASUPERTROPOLIS or remote solo farm. There's a huge gradient between the two.
It's possible to put a little effort into gardening, share with your community, and massively reduce the overall cost of food while still having free time.
The gradient is where you start to consume a lot of carbon unnecessarily.
The solution to nostalgia for farming is for people to try it.
I used to live in Asheville NC years ago. There were a lot of hippie back to the land types that came there to find themselves. It’s that kind of place. Sometimes they’d decide to become farmers. This usually lasted at best one year. Sometimes it lasted weeks.
There was one case where the group leader/organizer ran away with a bunch of cash, and one or two people tried to sue but they'd set up some kind of shell company structure and had conned people into signing things that made it hard to sue or press criminal charges. I think they also left the other members on the hook for a property lease, since the things they'd been conned into signing did that too. It looked a lot like an explicit long con targeting the hippie trust fund kids that would come around. Sex abuse too apparently.
I heard more than one story that mentioned members of the Hells Angels, at least allegedly.
This is another aspect of small insular communities in the good old days that the trads and anarcho-primitivists (left-trads) don't talk about. It still happens in small communities today, but a lot less due to the presence of larger scale nation states with laws and law enforcement. If the sheriff in your tiny rural town rapes you, you could try to bring charges at the state level or at least sue. Worst case you can move, and with a global money system you can sell your home and take the cash with you. Without that larger context, there is no recourse. If your local tribal chief, town sheriff, or cult leader wants to take your stuff, pressure you into polygamy, or rape your kids, there's nothing you can do about it. Back to nature!
Yeah, there are more places to enjoy yourself and have fun, more entertainment.
I'm passionate about going out to clubs, electronic music events, concerts, restaurants, flying around on a plane or driving my car on the endless roads.
All of this is great, but according to TFA and my own experience, we're absolutely shitting on the natural world to have our nice drink or exotic food which will be gone from our system in 12h.
We've 'borrowed' from the future generations to have our fun and I'm not sure it's all worth the price.
The irony of such an unnecessarily hostile opening line is ... Absolute cinema
(It's ok if you don't get it, Jeff. This comment is for other people)
There are birds in cities too, and they are annoying, but they are thankfully drowned out by the cars.
Cities are all the things you describe, including the myopic perspective and the inflexibility on display in this quote.
And thats why city states - which is what effectively those you describe are - eventually collapse into "dark ages" and future generation of people can't understand why
This is so so true
Many villages in England it takes min 2 generations to begin being accepted as a proper local
Cities have a lower carbon footprint per capita, lower land use per capita, people own fewer cars, use public transportation more often. If everyone lived in a city, nature would be better off.
People live in cities because they are vibrant, they have culture, the arts, intellectuals, innovation, etc. Yes there are areas with high traffic and noise, but there are also quiet neighborhoods where everyone walks everywhere, you can pop into a bar or a cafe on every corner, eat 20 different types of cuisine, go to a book store, go see a show on any night of the week.
Your picture of the friendly villagers might be true in your experience, but in reality a lot of those people are nasty when they encounter any kind of cultural diversity or difference.