Now hopefully Lenovo does it justice, unlike Thinkpad which they have milked and diluted everything out of.

If you don't want Google monitoring your payment you shouldn't use mobile payments. In fact you shouldn't even use cards, because those likely have agreements with Google for data sharing. If you're serious, it's simple, just use cash.

Over the years banks phased out their NFC support and all moved to Google Wallet on Android, I think the last bank finished their transition a year and a half ago. A real shame.

Google owns the operating system. If they want to see what the apps are doing, they can.

This is like believing that Facebook can't read your whatsapp messages because they're E2E. They own the interface!

I have ING but they also moved away from supplying their own NFC payments in favour of using Google Play, sadly.

It seems to be European too which is another big plus.

With wero you must have play integrity and you can't even have developer mode turned on which is frankly ridiculous. I don't know of a single app that requires that. Source: https://support.wero-wallet.eu/hc/en-us/articles/25599098295...

They had a great opportunity to make an ecosystem not dependent on google and apple and they utterly failed. You can't even log into it on the web, you must use the app.

A step backwards, in my opinion. I'm not sure what this system adds that sharing an IBAN doesn't, but then again Tikkie's conquered that market pretty quickly for some reason as well and each bank has had to copy that feature individually.

There are separate sections for "Wero in your bank app" and "Wero in the Wero app", so I assume the Wero wallet won't be mandatory

It would be a pain if your bank wouldn't provide direct Wero integration, though.

That's probably because /e/OS uses microG, which is vastly inferior to Sandboxed Google Play on GrapheneOS, and has much worse app compatibility. You should also know that /e/OS is a highly insecure OS, and both Fairphone and Murena are constantly misleading their customers with false marketing and false promises.

It would be amazing if grapheneos would support microG as an option. But they are too much "not invented here" for that to happen.

That's only true for microG itself, not the Google blobs it needs to download and execute in order to function. GmsCompat on GrapheneOS is also fully open source.[1]

> For example you can replace the location service with a privacy respecting one.

GrapheneOS literally does that.[2] It's currently not perfect in regard to privacy because they are using Apple's Wi-Fi positioning service, but proxying it through their own servers, so Apple never gets the user's IP address or any unique identifiers, and link the location information to any other data. One thing Apple currently does better than most network location providers is the fact that they don't just return position data for one BSSID, they actually give you the data for hundreds of nearby BSSIDs as well[3], which is more private, and means that much fewer requests need to be made to the service.

Because of this aforementioned aspect, Apple's Wi-Fi positioning system is also incredibly easy to scrape. GrapheneOS plans to build their own database, and let users download it, so Wi-Fi positioning could be performed fully locally.

> It would be amazing if grapheneos would support microG as an option. But they are too much "not invented here" for that to happen.

GrapheneOS doesn't support microG, because it has worse app compatibility than Sandboxed Google Play, and requires elevated privileges, unlike SGP.

[1] https://github.com/GrapheneOS/platform_packages_apps_GmsComp...

[2] https://grapheneos.org/features#network-location

[3] https://github.com/acheong08/apple-corelocation-experiments

My concern with this system is that their proxy is (afaik) compatible with Google's format, which by default is less privacy respecting as it does the location calculation server side and doesn't allow the client to cache.

I'd much prefer if they called out to Apple's servers directly (or through a direct proxy) & cached the AP data locally so over time it will work offline.

The data is cached for roughly 15 minutes. https://grapheneos.org/features#:~:text=It%20caches%20the%20...

GrapheneOS plans to scrape Apple's database and make it downloadable, so Wi-fi positioning could be done fully locally.

What is "caveman" about a payment method that doesn't need to have a charged battery?

https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/24134-devices-lacking-stand...

You can use your debit card though.

Also “unlocking” isn’t an inconvenient step, on iPhone it just happens automatically. As it should on android if the fingerprint sensor is in a convenient location.

I personally find using a plastic card more convenient than fumbling for my phone and unlocking it (I don't use biometric unlocking as it's not protected by the 5th.) It's also easier to go somewhere without a phone (yes, it's possible) when you have a card on hand.

It's a good work-out. Almost as tough as pouring a can of soda into a glass. You'll feel the difference after just a week!

There are wallets like ridge that I use for NFC with card, there’re also phone cases with card holders. It’s not like there’s no solution to this problem..