Or the other side of at what point into ending capitalism in favor of socialism should that stop?

Yes, I enjoy "both sides" coverage when it's done in earnest. What passes for that today is two people representing the extremes of either spectrum looking for gotcha moments as an "owning" moment. We haven't seen a good "both sides" in decades

I see the capitalism vs socialism as a spectrum with valid debate all along it.

I don't see how one honestly argues in favor of an authoritarian government

Ahh, you must be using the rational definition of socialism and not the extremist corrupted use as cover for dictators.

I always try to go for the rational version of stuff

I like this aphorism someone once stated on bothsides-ism: When an arson burns down your home you don't pause to consider their side of the situation. Standing up to a bully doesn't mean the bully is being treated unfairly. They're just not accustomed to pushback on their BS and quickly don the caul of victimhood whenever their position is exposed.

Thank you.

This is exactly why us Israelis recoil at the anti-Israel demonstrations after October 7th. How the social media platforms were leveraged to promote the bully was a wake up call that we hadn't seen since 1938.

This comment is surely satire?

I'll remind you that in the first month after the October 7th, 2023 attacks against Israel, already people were accusing Israel of genocide. The blood libel against Jews is as old as the Jewish exile from the holy land. Every generation it is another unfounded libel, proven again after the slaughter of more Jews.

> already people were accusing Israel of genocide

It's not like the death tolls reset on that day.

Israel can have the moral high ground when they stop killing huge amounts of people. Calling them out isn't blood libel. Stop making that argument.

Yes, our neighbours attack us, and are killed in the resultant wars. That is quite how wars work.

We don't have the moral high ground because we protect our civilians and thus have lower death tolls. We have the moral high ground because we are constantly on the defense from an enemy whose culture is conflict based and violent and vows our destruction.

What's the deal with the settlers? That's really where I lose all faith Isreal has good intentions.

I understand from your comment, please correct me if I misunderstood, that you oppose Jews building houses in the West Bank.

The West Bank is a part of the state of Israel that was occupied by Jordanian forces from 1948 to 1967. It was then captured by Israel and many Israelis, many of whom lived there before it was occupied by Jordan, moved (back) there.

The West Bank was settled by both Arabs and Jews before 1948 - for literally thousands of years Jews had lived there. In 1856 many more Jews and Arabs began moving there due to changes in Ottoman law meant to encourage settlement of the area (the Ottomans needed tax revenue). It should be noted that Jerusalem was Jewish majority even before the Ottoman land laws changed in 1856. In 1936 there was a large Arab slaughtering of Jews in Hebron, so many Jews were evacuated from Hebron. In 1948 the Arabs rejected the UN partition plan, and started a war. Israel won that war, and thus became the sole successor state of Mandatory Palestine. Jordan occupied part of that successor state (the West Bank). In 1952 (I may have the year wrong) the Arab league declared that no Arab assistance would be provided to those displaced in the war, because only the suffering of those displaced will cause the destruction of the Zionist Entity. In 1964 the Soviets advised a group to represent the Arabs of the West Bank, the Gaza strip, and those displaced in 1948, and that group adopted the name Palestinians to refer to the populations it represents. Israel conquered the Jordanian-occupied territory in 1967 after Jordan attacked Israel, two months later the Arab League adopted it's policy of No Peace, No Negotiation, No Recognition of Israel. In 1995 the West Bank was divided into separate areas. Predominantly Arab areas were given autonomy for self rule, under the Palestinian Authority (mostly PLO) with the intention of all parties to see the establishment of an Arab state called Palestine after final borders and other issues are agreed. Predominantly Jewish areas have Israeli rule redeclared in three year cycles, pending final border agreements. Every single final border solution has been rejected by the Arab side, who have also employed extreme violence both in rhetoric and in actions.

Where in all this are the Jews who live in the West Bank a reason to "lose all faith" that Israel has good intentions. Israel's first intention is to secure the safety of her citizens, just like any other nation. Israel has committed to, and taken reasonable steps to, establish a separate state for those who demand Arab rule.

What are you talking about? This had absolutely nothing to do with Israel until you injected that.

what is it about?

Israel is a perfect example of what's being talked about — a bully that acts like a victim to gain sympathy so it can bully you further.

GP is Israeli, so of course he thinks of Israel.

How is Israel a bully? We've been constantly attacked our entire existence, and even before we had an independent nation. We've done everything that we reasonably can to be peaceful with our neighbours, who have vowed our destruction for over a century.

I understand that we have been villainized by the armies of propaganda funded by oil money. But any interested party could look at the facts of history and realize who is the real bully here.

For the same reason that the Russian province of Donbass has been attacked by Ukraine for its entire existence. Explaining it in great detail would be far too off–topic.

> GP is Israeli, so of course he thinks of Israel.

What's your excuse for thinking of Israel? Maybe try and clear out some brain space by not seeing the whole world through your lens of antisemitism. Israel is a tiny country surrounded by neighbors who want to see it vanish. It's the bully? SMH.

I thought of Israel because the parent comment was about Israel and I read that comment. I thought that was quite obvious. There's no need to get hostile.