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Re:Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then ... by catigula on Wednesday January 14, 2026 @01:14PM (#46619912)
>A pickup truck should just be max utility, especially if you're a manufacturer making your first one

I don't think this is actually true, most pickup trucks aren't designed for maximum utility. They're designed to sell a lifestyle.

Re:Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then ... by everdrive on Wednesday January 14, 2026 @01:16PM (#46619953)
Heartbreaking but true. The most popular pickups today are not the most useful pickups. There are no more basic utilitarian pickups any longer, at least in the US.

Pickups are a little bit interesting in this regard. For any given model (eg: Tacoma, Frontier, etc.) the more premium the truck, the worse it is at being a truck. Each feature you add reduces its payload, and in the case of the Frontier, you could drop from a 6' bed with ~1,600 lbs of payload on the base model all the way down to a 5' bed with ~900 lbs of payload for the most premium offroad model.

Re:Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then ... by vablings on Wednesday January 14, 2026 @01:42PM (#46620528)
I would be willing to say that a small Japanese kei truck is more than the average American would ever need for hauling furnishings, appliances and lumber. If you really need something bigger renting a trailer or truck is dirt cheap
Re:Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then ... by Ostrogoth on Wednesday January 14, 2026 @03:32PM (#46622751)
>If you really need something bigger renting a trailer or truck is dirt cheap

It’s neither convenient nor cheap to rent a trailer in much of the US. Major cities have options, rural areas less so. Full disclosure I have a mid-sized pickup, but I recently looked into renting a trailer for a landscaping project that was above the weight limit for my truck. First issue I ran into was that there were not any trailers available for rent anywhere near my location. Second issue was that after factoring in driving distance + rental cost + dump fees, it was ~ the same price just to pay a junk company to haul the materials…and it was not cheap. Anecdotally, my pickup was cheaper than most other vehicle options at the time I bought it, my commute is short (so fuel economy is less an issue), and as a homeowner I use the bed to haul something at least once/month (Unfortunately kei trucks weren’t available at the time). So the cost/benefit/convenience factor of owning a truck over renting a trailer works for me. YMMV.

Re:Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then ... by vablings on Wednesday January 14, 2026 @05:05PM (#46624369)
Yeah, I cannot speak for rural US as much, I live in a large metropolitan area, and I would estimate around 1/5th cars here are pickups. You can rent a truck from Home Depot for as low as $100 a day.
Re:Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then ... by everdrive on Thursday January 15, 2026 @09:18AM (#46632872)
But you cannot tow with it. Just haul.
Re:Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then ... by NoGravitas on Thursday January 15, 2026 @10:25AM (#46633805)
You can tow a trailer rented from them, but not your own trailer/boat/whatever.
Re:Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then ... by PaulDavisThe1st on Wednesday January 14, 2026 @02:45PM (#46621795)
I found out a couple of years ago that you cannot rent a vehicle and use it to tow. This is a major barrier to the argument "when you need to tow <X> just rent a vehicle that can do that" (an argument I would like to support).
Re:Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then ... by catigula on Wednesday January 14, 2026 @04:15PM (#46623562)
Re:Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then ... by PaulDavisThe1st on Wednesday January 14, 2026 @05:14PM (#46624478)
That's good to know.

However, the most likely place to rent a pickup from (U-Haul) does not allow this.

Re:Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then ... by everdrive on Wednesday January 14, 2026 @03:29PM (#46622683)
I found this out recently as well, and it's really interesting since it must mean that a lot of these "just rent a truck when you need to tow" claims must have been unfounded.
Re:Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then ... by jeff_skj on Wednesday January 14, 2026 @02:07PM (#46621002)
Except most people also use trucks as daily driver vehicles. You can't exactly fit the wife and kids in a kei. Sure you could also own a car for that but now I need to own/store 2 vehicles instead of one.
Re:Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then ... by olyjohn on Wednesday January 14, 2026 @02:24PM (#46621354)
Yeah let's not pretend every family with a truck only owns one vehicle. Most families already have a second car anyways. Especially people spending $60k+ on a truck.
Re:Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then ... by bluGill on Wednesday January 14, 2026 @02:38PM (#46621644)
That is my argument for EVs as well. One truck with an ICE for take the whole family on long trips, or towing. Then an EV for everyone else - whoever is making the long trip that day gets the truck.

Truck works well for those role because it can do so much. It isn't the best for most of those, but it can do them.

Re:Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then ... by vablings on Wednesday January 14, 2026 @05:07PM (#46624380)
Sure, you can. Two kids up front and your wife in the bed.

Jokes aside I could purchase a new hatchback and a small old Kei truck for a fraction of the cost of something like an f150

Re:Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then ... by potato3732842 on Wednesday January 14, 2026 @07:05PM (#46625925)
>Sure, you can. Two kids up front and your wife in the bed.

Quieter than the other way around.

Re:Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then ... by vablings on Wednesday January 14, 2026 @11:20PM (#46627975)
At least this way round its perfectly legal in some states
Re:Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then ... by mc3301 on Wednesday January 14, 2026 @09:03PM (#46627026)
Daihatsu "Deck Van" is pretty rad.
Re:Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then ... by mc3301 on Wednesday January 14, 2026 @09:02PM (#46627010)
I agree with you on the kei truck. They are pretty darn tough, and have so many uses.

However, they are TINY inside. If you are taller 6'1" and/or heavier than 200lbs, it is a tight squeeze, especially for anything longer than 30 minutes. The "average American" can't fit it a kei truck.

Also, the weird manliness of the average American man would make this truck unsuccessful, simply because it is too small. Which is hilarious, because some of the most resourceful, strongest, reliable and adventurous men I have met drive kei trucks.

I guess finally, the big highways with longhaul trucks and fast speeds are not so good in a k-truck.

Re:Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then ... by rjrjrjrj on Wednesday January 14, 2026 @01:38PM (#46620456)
The Ford Maverick is pretty utilitarian, inasmuch as any new US vehicle is.

The Slate is utilitarian, but remains to be seen if it actually ships. https://www.slate.auto/en

Re:Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then ... by throwaway173738 on Wednesday January 14, 2026 @01:43PM (#46620554)
I decide if a truck is utilitarian by whether I have to flag a 2x4x8 in the bed or not.
Re:Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then ... by olyjohn on Wednesday January 14, 2026 @02:26PM (#46621411)
I decide if you need to have a step on your bumper because the truck is too high to get anything in and out of it. Lowering my truck made it way easier to load and unload.
Re:Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then ... by foobarian on Wednesday January 14, 2026 @02:22PM (#46621312)
I can fit one of those into my Ford Fiesta with the hatch closed. :smh:
Re:Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then ... by PaulDavisThe1st on Wednesday January 14, 2026 @02:47PM (#46621821)
Closed and latched? I find that hard to believe (used to own an 80s Honda Civic which would allow "closed but not latched" for 4x8 sheet goods) ...
Re:Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then ... by foobarian on Wednesday January 14, 2026 @03:10PM (#46622296)
Yes, with room to spare. I assume the grandparent was referring to a stud, i.e. the nominal "2x4" that is 1.5x3.5inches in cross section and 8 feet long :-) Sadly I cannot fit 4x8 sheet goods though I haven't tried very hard. I can definitely fit them if I ask nicely for a lengthwise cut, so I end up with 2' wide 8' strips. Those I can fit and close the hatch.
Re:Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then ... by potato3732842 on Wednesday January 14, 2026 @07:08PM (#46625964)
Ford had a terrible but well packaging rear suspension design in those cars. It was designed to not have strut towers so he gets the full width which is probably around 4ft.

No way does the length check out though. I haul lumber in a similar size car and 8ft is basically trunk to dash so there's no way he's hauling an 8ft by 4ft sheet without it conflicting with the driver's seat if not torso.

Individual boards should fit in just about anything though.

Re:Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then ... by NoGravitas on Thursday January 15, 2026 @10:28AM (#46633868)
I used to fairly often carry 2x4x8 and 4x4x8 in a Toyota Matrix (Corolla wagon) with the hatch closed. Couldn't do a full-width sheet of plywood, though.
Re:Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then ... by potato3732842 on Wednesday January 14, 2026 @07:05PM (#46625933)
You don't have to flag stuff under 4ft of overhang in most states.
Re:Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then ... by red-iron-pine on Wednesday January 14, 2026 @02:26PM (#46621404)
these trucks are still a thing; Toyota sells a 10k stripped down work truck for places like Thailand

https://www.roadandtrack.com/reviews/a45752401/toyotas-10000...

wouldn't fly due to chicken tax + other safety and emissions. they plan on selling em in Mexico tho, so maybe we'll see some float up...

Re:Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then ... by shortstuffsushi on Wednesday January 14, 2026 @01:27PM (#46620217)
> There are no more basic utilitarian pickups any longer, at least in the US.

What makes you say this? The F-150 series has a pretty serviceable option in their XL trim. 8ft bed, 4x4, "dumb" interior (maybe not, looking at their site looks like the most recent is iPad screen, sigh) - but what else would you look for to call it utilitarian?

You're right that each feature is further limiting, but I would argue premium and utilitarian are reaching for opposite goals.

Re:Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then ... by bryanlarsen on Wednesday January 14, 2026 @01:46PM (#46620618)
A F-150 from the previous century is much utilitarian than today's F-150's. The bed height and rail height are much more reasonable heights -- you can reach into the bed from the side.
Re:Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then ... by sejje on Wednesday January 14, 2026 @02:36PM (#46621619)
Manual gearbox, triangle vent windows, engine bay room, repairability, bench seats.
Re:Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then ... by shortstuffsushi on Wednesday January 14, 2026 @06:46PM (#46625724)
I would argue that the first couple of these could be considered "features." Not sure what you mean about the bench seat - the "regular cab" configuration is a 3 person bench.
Re:Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then ... by sejje on Wednesday January 14, 2026 @08:05PM (#46626535)
Yes, utilitarian features. A manual gearbox is simpler than an automatic.
Re:Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then ... by everdrive on Wednesday January 14, 2026 @01:32PM (#46620331)
I wish it had even fewer features, but I take your point.
Re:Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then ... by enaaem on Wednesday January 14, 2026 @01:58PM (#46620846)
The most utilitarian truck is probably the Hilux champ and it’s not even sold in the US.
Re:Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then ... by potato3732842 on Wednesday January 14, 2026 @06:59PM (#46625868)
>Heartbreaking but true. The most popular pickups today are not the most useful pickups. There are no more basic utilitarian pickups any longer, at least in the US.

Any OEM will happily sell you a white vinyl floor half ton with your preferred cab/bed/engine/drivetrain configuration.

The GMC 4cyl 1500s were stupid cheap for awhile, because they shat out a bunch for CAFE and weren't selling so they were going for like 25-30k going into the new model year. I wanna say this was 2024 into 25, maybe 23 into 24, idk.

Ford Maverick seems to fit the bill for compact stuff though I suspect it may make the goalposts zip to "single cab option" and "body on frame"

Re:Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then ... by a4isms on Wednesday January 14, 2026 @01:23PM (#46620118)
Lifestyle sells.

I drive a wagon. Of course wagon owners talk about the utility. And yet, you can buy a wagon with a twin-turbo V8 engine. What's the "sportwagon" segment all about? Certainly not going to Home Depot to buy four toilets for the new house, it's about putting your $15,000 Cannondale Black Ink MTB on the roof and swanking up to the trailhead.

Re:Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then ... by switchbak on Wednesday January 14, 2026 @01:40PM (#46620484)
It's about drag racing on the way to your Jiu-Jitsu club with the baby seats in the back. And still being able to fit that new vanity from Home Depot in on your way back home!
Re:Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then ... by catigula on Wednesday January 14, 2026 @01:41PM (#46620513)
The brain is a confabulation/justification engine.

In reality ideal utility is likely found in the shape of a 2008 Toyota Camry and a U-Haul truck rental when necessary.

Re:Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then ... by pixl97 on Wednesday January 14, 2026 @02:00PM (#46620871)
You may underestimate how much consumption some people in the US have and why a Camry wouldn't work. Hell, for the amount of hobby project stuff I bring home on a bi-weekly basis a car just doesn't cut it. Then again, I'm not sure where I fit in the average population.
Re:Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then ... by potato3732842 on Wednesday January 14, 2026 @07:37PM (#46626241)
It's not even "stuff I bring home". There's just never ending amount of shit that needs to be schlepped around. Sometimes I wish I lived in a condo, leased a Prius and golfed for a hobby.
Re:Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then ... by adw on Wednesday January 14, 2026 @02:13PM (#46621134)
More like a 2001 Renault Clio. Camrys are already bloatware.
Re:Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then ... by red-iron-pine on Wednesday January 14, 2026 @02:28PM (#46621436)
safety standards, gas milage, and a bunch of other factors have improved dramatically since 2008.

buy yourself a gently used 2019 Camry

Re:Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then ... by potato3732842 on Wednesday January 14, 2026 @07:16PM (#46626039)
I drive a wagon, among other vehicles. I live in a "tech area" of the country.

Last weekend I hauled ~700lb of rebar on the roof (because they come in 20ft sticks so the wagon is the best choice). The number of dirty looks I got was off the charts. The same exact demographics that are in here shitting on pickups were judging me for not using one. Good thing I don't give a shit what anyone else thinks.

Re:Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then ... by a4isms on Thursday January 15, 2026 @10:19AM (#46633706)
I'm a wagon-person. I picked up four new toilets when I moved into my home, take as many as four bikes to the trailhead, and our full-sized Chesapeake Bay Retriever likes having the entire "trunk" area to himself.

I also do not allow my lifted pickup and Model Y neighbours to choose my vehicle for me.

Re:Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then ... by giglamesh on Wednesday January 14, 2026 @01:40PM (#46620493)
> ... most pickup trucks aren't designed for maximum utility. They're designed to sell a lifestyle.

Yes, but that lifestyle can and sometimes does include actual needs for some of the utility. There is a great observation from Representative Marie Gluesenkamp Perez, a Democrat from Washington’s 3rd District in an NYT piece a couple of days ago. I included a perhaps too long quote in lieu of apologizing for the paywall.

> “Spreadsheets can contain a part of truth,” Ms. Gluesenkamp Perez told me. “But never all of truth.”

> Looking to illustrate this, I bought the recent book “White Rural Rage” and opened it more or less at random to a passage about rural pickup trucks. It cites a rich portfolio of data and even a scholarly expert on the psychology of truck purchasers, to make what might seem like an obvious point — that it’s inefficient and deluded for rural and suburban men to choose trucks as their daily driving vehicles. The passage never does explain, though, how you’re supposed to haul an elk carcass or pull a cargo trailer without one.

https://www.nytimes.com/2026/01/12/opinion/marie-gluesenkamp...

Re:Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then ... by catigula on Wednesday January 14, 2026 @01:53PM (#46620732)
If I mostly trim my hedges, but sometimes, very rarely, need to cut down small trees, am I best served by simply owning a hedge-trimmer and renting a chainsaw or other appropriate tool when necessary, or by buying a katana for both jobs?

Everybody knows why you bought the katana. We know you have a story to tell yourself, it's just not convincing.

Re:Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then ... by pixl97 on Wednesday January 14, 2026 @02:06PM (#46620986)
> and renting a chainsaw or other appropriate tool when necessary,

I don't think most people realize how expensive and time consuming tool rental is.

This is where things also get kind of messy in the US. In manicured suburbs you probably don't need a chainsaw. But in older growth and places with larger lots you really do need one. If you wait till you need one after a big storm, you may travel 100 miles out of the storm damage to find one to rent or have to wait for weeks as your driveway is blocked and contractors are booked up.

For me the utility function is somewhere in between a car and a truck, hence why I have an SUV. I can carry the large boxes/items I seem to have at a regular basis. When I need something bigger I can rent a trailer to hook to it. Trucks themselves are way too expensive now, and I don't need that much capacity. A car would have me constantly renting or borrowing one from someone else (which I did when I owned a car and it was a pain in the ass).

Re:Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then ... by zaphoyd on Wednesday January 14, 2026 @02:38PM (#46621648)
We recently moved to a more rural location that has needed more tools. It is shocking just how expensive and inconvenient it is to rent tools (and even vehicles to some extent) and just how much worse it is being even just a little bit rural.

The big box store in our town doesn't rent tools or vehicles. You have to drive 45-60 minutes to get to a store that does. This means the 4 hour rental prices (which for something like a wood chipper or chain saw might be sufficient for a lot of jobs) become nearly non-viable or highly stressful rushing through unfamiliar power equipment that really shouldn't be rushed.

A full day tool rental is often 1/3 to 1/2 of the price of a new mass market version of the tool. A week rental is almost always more. The tools are rarely in great shape. You are almost always way better off going to an estate sale or local marketplace and buying a used tool. If there is a job you end up doing 2-3 times or need for more than a week its even cost effective to just buy new ones. You save so much on labor doing things yourself that even with new tools you basically always come out ahead.

The best case is that you have a community run tool library that lets you check stuff out cheaply for a week and can have a relationship with the folks that run it. Similarly, getting to know the neighbors and being able to swap/borrow stuff. For vehicles this is a little more dicey because of liability & insurance issues.

We've definitely struggled with the vehicle for long and sheet goods. We really don't need a pickup truck and it would honestly be a hazard on skinny mountain roads... but we do need to move lumber, sheet goods, appliance sized things just enough that it's a pain without one. We settled on a midsized SUV with passable towing power (as an aside, EV power and control makes towing a breeze as long as your round trip fits in one charge). Renting a trailer is still annoying, but at least can be done close by. For larger orders delivery can sometimes be cost effective (vs renting a vehicle or buying and maintaining a truck) especially because places often subsidize delivery to win business.

Re:Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then ... by pixl97 on Wednesday January 14, 2026 @02:52PM (#46621929)
>A full day tool rental is often 1/3 to 1/2 of the price of a new mass market version of the tool

For sure. I had to dig some post holes in limestone that was very hard. Rental was going to be $200 for a tool that would do it in a day.

Instead I went to harbor freight and bought a tool closer to $100 even though it took me a bit longer, and I get to keep the tool which is still working to this day.

Heh, and labor costs in the Austin area are off the hook. I did a project for around $5000 that a neighbor had a similar but smaller in scope project quoted for $21,000.

Re:Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then ... by rationalist on Wednesday January 14, 2026 @02:43PM (#46621748)
> I don't think most people realize how expensive and time consuming tool rental is.

Same with truck rentals.

Re:Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then ... by brandonmenc on Wednesday January 14, 2026 @03:35PM (#46622826)
People seriously underestimate how much trouble a pickup truck rental from U-Haul can be.

I’ve wasted so much time trying to track down which location near me has one available on the exact day I want to do major yard work. Often I have to reschedule my work or plan out super far in advance. Or take a day off during the week because everyone else also wants to rent trucks on the weekend. Then I’m running against the clock the whole time.

An extra $100-$200 a month car payment to have a truck instead of a crossover is totally worth it.

Re:Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then ... by rootusrootus on Wednesday January 14, 2026 @05:18PM (#46624548)
I struggle to think what vehicle has more all around utility (by my own definition) than my Lightning. The only things it does not do well is tow 300 miles, and drive in NYC. Neither of which are on my requirements list.
Re:Ford F-150 Lightning outsold the Cybertruck and was then ... by chung8123 on Wednesday January 14, 2026 @08:58PM (#46626969)
Not just trucks. Almost all cars sell a lifestyle.