It was the default on the Mac and it’s nowhere near the most popular there.

Google pushes Chrome HARD.

Yep. I've even been seeing Chrome TV ads lately (on Amazon Prime Video). They're marketing it pretty hard despite being dominant.

Also, it's wise to not underestimate the power of developers ceasing to test against non-Blink browsers and taking a page from their IE-era past selves with "Best Viewed in Chrome" and "Browser outdated! Download Chrome" badges. There are few user motivators stronger than things not working.

Similarly, Edge is the default on Windows. Chrome has 75% of the market share.

Yeah it's fun how Google displays a full-page ad for Chrome every few times I do a Google search on iOS Safari that I have to dismiss before seeing the results.

Yeah but the solution to that is to be good at breaking monopolies, not allowing one to stop another.

Make no mistake, that is one of the top 5 arguments that "Leave the trillion dollar company alone" types love throwing in every discussion regarding this topic. It's not an accidental or innocent kind of argument, it will pop up under pretty much every article that discusses Apple and Anti-Trust. It's an underhanded way of defending Apple's anti-competitive business practices akin to "let Apple be anti-competitive or [insert doomsday scenario here]". Instead of advocating for application of proper anti-trust measures in order to restore a healthy and competitive market, they want to maintain the status quo where the Gatekeepers can do as they please.

That’s what should have happened long ago.

As far as I can see there are only two possibilities on any kind of near term:

Apple can lock Google and everyone else out, or Google can take over the web fully.

Those appear to be our only choices right now. I don’t like either one. But I know which one I don’t like more.

Your argument relies on a false dichotomy that reeks of concern trolling. You claim we only have two choices, Apple's tyranny or Google's hegemony. That ignores the third option explicitly mentioned in the parent comment: aggressive antitrust enforcement. By saying "That's what should have happened long ago." you pretend as if we're now helpless, as if we can't still solve it by applying proper anti-trust measures asap.

The existence of a threat from Google does not justify the existence of anti-competitive business practices by Apple. We do not have to "pick a favorite" monopoly, we can and should use legislation to handle both. Framing this as a binary choice is a defeatist tactic that serves only to protect the Gatekeepers and preserve the status quo.

We are helpless now in the near term. It’s not trolling.

What can we do in the next two years (let’s say) that would accomplish both letting other browsers on iOS and preventing Chrome from taking over everywhere?

I don’t know of another option. As far as I can see, that’s it.

Longer term yeah we should break up Google. If they didn’t own Chrome that would fix the problem. But is that going to happen in the next year or two?

Or are we about to hand them even more control and then spend the next 5-10 years trying to unwind it?

As I’ve said elsewhere I don’t like this situation. I don’t think governments should have allowed it to get here. I’m not picking an”favorite monopoly”, just the option of the only two I see right now that I think will do less harm.

We’ve screwed ourselves and I don’t want to make it worse for (at least) quite a few years.

We are not "helpless" and setting an arbitrary 2-year deadline is a distraction. The DOJ and EU are moving faster than they have in decades. You ask what we can do? We can enforce browser choice screens and allow alternative engines immediately. This gives Firefox (Gecko) a fighting chance on mobile for the first time in history. Keeping the ecosystem locked down ensures Firefox never has a chance.

That line of roleplay of yours also seems to be just 'Doomsday Defense' part 2. Now you’re adding an arbitrary time limit ("next two years") to justify inaction. We don't need to "unwind" Google before we stop Apple's anti-competitive behavior, we can walk and chew gum at the same time. The fact that you view "allowing other browsers" (like Firefox) as "handing Google control" reveals the flaw in your logic. You are effectively arguing that we must destroy the village (the open web) to save it from the dragon, if this isn't concern trolling then I don't know what is.

Always had. From blocking features by UA to ads worth billions of dollars (only little of which they had to actually pay).

Google has no actual content left to find. It’s AI spam website after AI spam website.

And if you find any content, it’s on a website riddled with ads.

AI search has none of these issues. Google from 15 years ago was wildly superior to today.

>AI search has none of these issues

Yet. AI feeds from the content it substitutes. I’m skeptical to the long term feasibility for this reason, how is it going to bring me news when publishing those news is no longer profitable, for example?

The last working site in google search is reddit. Adding keyword reddit enables it. But it's disappointing.

Agreed. This is the only context in which I still use Google.

> safari being the default app

but this can change. At least in the EU Apple already prompts a user which browser they want [1]. While at the moment every browser is WebKit under the hood, this will probably change as the EU is also pushing Apple to allow other engines [2] - and with users knowing Chrome from Ads, their work or from a previous Android phone, I can imagine a lot of them selecting Chrome as a default.

1: https://www.heise.de/en/news/Apple-alters-selection-screen-f... 2: https://developer.apple.com/support/alternative-browser-engi...

Until websites block you from logging in, completing transactions, ordering items until you open it with Chrome

Or just get buggy. I have absolutely run into sites that work on mobile Safari but not on desktop Safari. Because they don’t test it and don’t care.

You HAVE to use Chrome or possibly Firefox. We’ve always seen what Firefox is doing, they’re not going to be our saviors again.

There’s a meaningful amount of blame here that sits squarely at the feet of Apple.

1. They produce the world’s buggiest browser by far. Look at this chart that shows the number of bugs that ONLY OCCUR IN A SINGLE BROWSER. https://wpt.fyi/results/?label=master&label=experimental&ali...

2. They don’t support any modern testing protocols like WebdriverBiDi

3. They don’t make their software available to anyone who isn’t using Apple’s hardware.

The core root of the problem is very clearly Apple who’ve done nothing other than make the world’s buggiest and least accessible browser and then tried to hold everyone hostage who was previously forced to use it until courts had to stop them and they had no choice.

> They don’t make their software available to anyone who isn’t using Apple’s hardware.

Why should they? When did this become a rule? If Atari survived would they be required to make Windows software? Be? Commodore?

Where/why does/should the law require everyone to make Windows apps?

Really?

Why should people buy special, extra expensive hardware to test with a bad web browser?

It's logical to skip that step.