This podcast episode addresses sports betting and touches on why religious groups condone it.

I don't look at gambling in a religious or moral perspective at all, but rather as a predatory business. It's like any other dopamine hit, the casinos manage joy and expectation, just enough, so that people keep coming back until they are hopelessly addicted, broke, or broken.

The problem with gambling is that the house never loses, and when they are losing, they can kick you out and call you a cheater. At the very least, there needs to be severe restrictions on what casinos can do to people who are winning, and rein them in so that they don't use their money, power, influence, and heavy-handed security, in ways that are grossly unfair to the consumer. The power is too much in the hands of the casino, and really needs to swing back towards the consumer, otherwise people get taken for a ride, literally and figuratively.

This is not true. The player can turn a profit, it’s just the probability of that tends closer to house advantage as they play more.

Which is why the optimal play is usually to bet it all on the first play. Then walk away, win or lose.

You're wrong. The house literally will come up to someone that is winning a lot and tell them to leave. "You're too good, we have to ask you to leave."

Lately it feels like more and more people who are not religious invoke Christ to tell believers what they must do.

Yes, because the vast majority of self proclaimed and vocal so called "Christ"-ians have completely forgotten about (or conveniently abandoned) the teachings and philosophy of Christ the man.

Nobody can claim with a straight face that the "Christian Right" movement in the US can be classified as wholesome love-thy-neighbour Christianity. Because from where I'm standing, it's far from it.

This is because, actually practicing the Christian faith vs simply performing theatrics are different things.

From my own experience of someone who practices regularly, there is a minority of people who really follow it. They show up to the daily Mass, perform Works of Mercy, do charitable work, etc. The truth is that Christianity demands _a lot_ from you, including saying no to greed, lust and gluttony.

How many people are willing to say no to an extra 200k so that someone less fortunate might benefit? Or open their homes to strangers, so that they may not freeze in the cold?

I think that one of the worst thing that has happened to our faith is its hijacking by the government for political gain (some lower Churches like Evangelicals are currently _heavily_ suffering due to this).

I'm a Catholic but when I speak to my Protestant friends, they feel the same about their communities. Luckily, we still have each other and Christ to help guide us.

It has been hijacked, but this is nothing new. Also, it’s been hijacked from within - look at all the photos of ministers praying for/with Trump. There is a lot of rot within Christianity - obviously not everyone, but a lot. Matt 7:21-23 was given for a reason.

Lately it feels like more and more religious people invoke Christ to tell non-believers what they must do, so I think it's only fair.

Well, us non-believers are always told how we should live, what we should believe, how horrible we are for living our lives the way way do, etc, under penalty of eternal torture - why shouldn't I hold them to their own standards? It's their game and they can stop it any time they want.

Yes, because more and more Christians are becoming hypocrites.

Since when betting is forbidden? It's not like they are socialists with a net worth of hundreds of millions

Believe it or not but I'm a Christian and a Libertarian.

It’s more of a label than a credible belief, either way.

Following is about larger movements and political leaders. Anyway, considering that both chrustians and libertarian movements aligned themselves with fascist right instantly, there is no contradiction.

This is what many evil people do.

Concepts like "evil" are a human fabrication. Those people are the smart opportunists that our society rewards.

You don’t have to be religious to know and support the moral teachings of a religion

Yes we do because some religious people have the annoying habit to stick their nose in other people business (and laws) so they should be faced with their hypocrisy when the pure, "natural laws" get in their way. Or the rulings of their book of choice.

Just spent the holidays with my family who fit squarely within “the Christian right”. I would say they are mostly uninformed on the topic. They don’t understand why digital sports betting is worse than a casino.

It is not gay, it is masculine, it does not hurt women, so christian right likes it. That it also hurts playing men does not bother christian right either, they will blame women and gay for that anyway.

> it does not hurt women

Why make assertions that even a cursory search can disprove?

https://bettingladies.com/articles/super-bowl-2024

I mean, we can reach gender equality in this one too, but overall, men are still more of direct victims.

Women are still more of indirect ones - harmed more by having relationship with gambler and ending responsible for debt due to marriage.

Domestic violence incidents go up when hometown sports teams lose. This effect is amplified with gambling. Women might be less likely to lose their wealth than men, but they are still likely to be victims of the ecosystem.

Right side Christian here.

There are much bigger fish to fry at the moment. Gambling does wreck families, though.

What are those fish? And do they interfere in any way with the fish of us atheists?

We do not have any fish to fry. We want to live free from opression from the ones that beieve they should turn others to the Truth.

The fish I’m talking about include hungry homeless people, poor people that need clothing, and young people dealing with unexpected pregnancies. There are ministries for all of those here, staffed and funded by churchgoers.

Maybe think about it, see if there are some fish you could pick up.

These are not fish specific to religious people.

Helping in these areas is what makes us human. If you need to invoque a deity to explain the action, good for you. The most important part is that help is provided.

Now, unexpected pregnancies is not the strong part of Christianity. When you start to promote teaching about sex and birth control we can talk.

You’re right, those fish are not specific to religious people. But it is true that religious people give more time and money to them. Less religious people tend to give and volunteer less for such causes. I offer no judgement or theories about why, but the data is strong.

About the sex ed., the clinic I volunteer at offers pregnancy related information, including pamphlets that explain pros and cons of things like the ‘day after’ pill. Of course the preferred option is always ensuring good parenting for the newborn child. Clients can take video classes on parenting skills to earn reward points good for diapers, baby food and clothing. It’s really a good program, provided free to the people who need it.

> But it is true that religious people give more time and money to them. Less religious people tend to give and volunteer less for such causes. I offer no judgement or theories about why, but the data is strong. You may want to look at https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38407059/, a large mets-data study. Religious people give more when this is public, and vice-versa. I offer no judgment on that either :)

> About the sex ed., the clinic I volunteer at offers pregnancy related information, including pamphlets that explain pros and cons of things like the ‘day after’ pill. Of course the preferred option is always ensuring good parenting for the newborn child. Clients can take video classes on parenting skills to earn reward points good for diapers, baby food and clothing. It’s really a good program, provided free to the people who need it.

I volounteered for a long time at an organization that provided the same services. We provided information about abortion, pills, medical facts. Everything was on the table, from an abortion to raising your child.

Do your pamphlets address abortion as one of the solutions, making it at par with giving birth? I unfortunately know about "help centers" for pregnant women who were in fact driving them away from some solutions (mostly abortion). They were fortunately made illegal in France because everyone should have a neutral, unbiased access to information and help (including abortion).

For reference, Total Fertility Rate in France is 1.66 vs 1.60 in the US.

Teen pregnancy is four times lower in France - because we do serious sex ed and people have sex knowing what to expect.

Thank you for the study that confirms the assertion that confirms “ Religiosity predicts prosociality”. We are in agreement.

What made you stop volunteering at the clinic?

> Religiosity predicts prosociality

... when in public view. Vanity and all this. Non-religious people are happy to keep their generosity to themselves.

> What made you stop volunteering at the clinic?

I started to travel the world. This was also a time where I experienced first hand how religion impacts people. So far in France we were shielded from that.

The point remains that religious people give more time and money to charitable causes than non-religious people. The motivators may be sinful (vanity, etc), but the good works are what should matter. Better to have hypocrites feeding the hungry than no food at all.

I’m glad to hear you’re getting to see the world. I hope your journeys are enjoyable.

> The point remains that religious people give more time and money to charitable causes than non-religious people

No, the point is that they mostly do this publicly. The others do the same, but without the need for an audience to witness their gesture.

You seem to be missing the point.

There are people who need help. They need food, clothing, counseling.

The people getting help don’t care about why somebody gives. They just need things and are glad when they get them.

No, you are not getting the point. Giving is not related to religiousness. So there is no need to state this as this is factually wrong. We give as much as you do, without making it public for everyone to see.

That’s wrong.

The studies ( and they are many ) show that religious people give more.

You were trying to argue about why religious people give more, now you abruptly switch course to saying they don’t.

I will respond no more, it makes no sense to continue this discussion.

> The studies ( and they are many ) show that religious people give more.

I provided you a meta research covering several thousand cases. Feel free to provide yours.

> You were trying to argue about why religious people give more, now you abruptly switch course to saying they don’t.

Absolutely not - my point was that everybody gives the same, no matter the religiosity (and the research says so). Religious people just make it public. Why this is the case is left to them and their conscience.

If you want to have an informed discussion, you must be ready to face the numbers. But science and logical thinking is exactly the opposite of religion so if you are blinded by it, well that's it.

I have had numerous discussions over the years about religion (including a well-known radio program). Whenever it came to facts, suddenly there was a lot of hand waving and trying to move the discussion elsewhere.

But you are right - we got to a final point. Happy Christmas and New Year (yes, I am happy Christmas is there even though the religious part is irrelevant -- I like the family traditions)

Surely by now you must have noticed that the Right is completely uninterested in solving these things? Cutting social nets and criminalizing abortions will only aggravate these important issues.

Also, I don't see why caring about the homeless prevents also fighting rampant gambling addictions?

The homeless meals and clothes closets have been in place for years. Through administrations and legislatures of all kinds. Nobody ‘solves the problem’, unfortunately.

There are limited resources. That’s why you see churches feeding the hungry and clothing the needy, but probably not fighting gambling so much. People are only able or willing to give so much.

I understand, but I doubt that OP meant "individual churches" when speaking of the "Christian Right". More likely, he meant the evangelical movement currently controlling all branches of government, and the people that give it sufficient mandate to tear through the social nets actually able to releviate these issues.

I'm sure there are strong humanist arguments against gambling. Don't need a religious argument against it.